Quote: The sad thing is that on either side of the fence, the other party, in this case, your W, usually is mistrusting of "advice" that is thrown over the "fence" to them.
Ugh, I know this. Blinded by my own desire to "fix" my M and my W. Not smart. I know that to DB I need to fix me. I do have the problem of being a "fixer" and NOT a listenter/validater.
Quote: ...H's get caught up in "fixer" mode and react to something that our W's are venting as something that they want us to fix when the truth is that they just want us to listen, validate and then move on.
Me, me, me, me. Ugh.
Quote: This is JUST A POSSIBLE scenario but one that seems plausible to me.
Standing on the outside looking in makes EVERYTHING look so d*mn clear. Too bad I can't slow down and live my life more like I had 20/20 foresight.
Quote: So, I agree, let it drop.
It was and remains dropped. I will read the book. I bought the book for me to better understand the dynamics of OR anyway.
Thank you, my friend. I appreciate you clearing up my view of my world. Helps me more than you know.
This weekend was fun with our children. It was also challenging with our D5. I am hoping that b4 my next weekend I'll be in my new place. If not, then this next time will be the last one at my sister's house.
Went to 2 little girl Bday parties on Saturday. On Sunday, we went to a co-worker's brunch and then to a kid's park and the zoo. We also went shoe shopping for my D5. All in all, despite dealing with my D when she was being willfull, it was time that was absolutely wonderful.
UGH. I am feeling really down and am having a real difficult focusing on anything other than the messed up path my life and M are on. I can hardly wait until I am in my own place so that I won't have to know that my W is going out with "a friend" and is going to be out really late, like tonight. It's all none of my business. And, yes GH, I know that I don't know anything about what she is up to; that I am only mind reading, which is NEVER good.
I understand that she is playing the hand that I dealt her. It's sucks nonetheless. I am very sad today. I know I'll pull myself together.
I just hate being on this emotional rollercoaster. I hate what I have done to my W, to my M, to my children, to myself. I know that my sadness and guilt won't erase my A nor the damage/hurt that I have caused. I am just feeling overwhelmed today.
My W told me that she spoke with our D about our D's behavior and my W told me that she heard my D tell her that she (my D) doesn't have any rules with mommy. I had already told my W that, but my W didn't believe me (I see what your are saying GH). I am the enemy, mostly.
My W is on her own family and self-destructive path and I can't do anything directly to stop the process. She views me as the enemy and is running away hard to PROVE to herself that what she is doing is right. I believe that, at some point, reality will set in for her. I pray that I will not have turned out the lights and locked to the door to my heart and mind from her. I am working very hard to prevent that from happening. I love her. I love my family. I long for restoration, redemption, and reconciliation.
I am looking for emotional and spiritual support, as my W has, at least temporarily, sapped my strengh and determination. Any support you all can lend me would be greatly appreciated.
You are not going to give up so put that out of your mind. You know that and I know that.
Secondly, I hate to comfort you on the point of cheating because it's really the one think I DON'T like about you but I will anyway because of all the other things I think I DO like about you. What I am trying to say is that while you may have "cheated" I don't see much difference between that and what she may or may not be doing "out late" with her "friends".
This is not a tit-for-tat contest but from where I sit, that's what she's doing and is sucks. You have remorse for what you did, she is willingly doing it, all the while claiming to be a victim of YOU. BS. She is not a victim any more than you were so she needs to get over that.
I am not saying you are even with her but something's gotta give, and as you said, reality WILL set in for her. I think your campaign of self-improvement and patience WILL pay off. I have to believe that because this path of destruction she's on should give out sooner or later...hopefully sooner.
Keep your chin up, pray, read and pick yourself up. You've done it before and you'll do it 1000 more times before it's all said and done.
When you first came here, you found the fire pretty quick. Problem is, you think once you've pulled YOUR head out of YOUR ass, your spouse should do the same in a fairly short amount of time.
Ain't happening that way is it? Nope.
I knew you were headed for a fall. And I had to let you. So what was that imagined "date" you had in your mind that you'd be reconciled by?
Well, here's where you learn the hard way that it isn't all about you and the changes you had to make. See now a chain of events has been kicked into high gear. Now it's HER that's lost.
Keep your mouth closed regarding the R. Keep your eyes on the hills.
GH, kind sir. You are always there to prop me up against the wall so I can keep on standing up for myself, my M, my W, my family, and to be the man that God always intended me to be.
Quote: You are not going to give up so put that out of your mind. You know that and I know that.
You, sir, are so right.
Quote: Secondly, I hate to comfort you on the point of cheating because it's really the one think I DON'T like about you but I will anyway because of all the other things I think I DO like about you.
The same thing you don't like about me, I don't like about me. Unfortunately, I have to live with the aftermath of my A-bomb.
Quote: ...I don't see much difference between that and what she may or may not be doing "out late" with her "friends".
I was wondering if anyone felt the same (or similar) way about what she is planning and doing and what I did? I know what I did was wrong. I am working to NOT pass judgement on what she is doing. It is her right. {quote]This is not a tit-for-tat contest but from where I sit, that's what she's doing and is sucks.
It feels that way for me, too. But...what can I do except display patience, understanding, and DB power.
I know that we are not even. I dropped the A-bomb on her and completely destroyed her belief that I am a husband she can count on and trust. It does seem like she is trying to "even the score" with her behavior now, though. Well, I know that I must "buck up", stay off the pity pot, be a man and be strong.
Quote: I think your campaign of self-improvement and patience WILL pay off. I have to believe that because this path of destruction she's on should give out sooner or later...hopefully sooner.
Amen, brother. I will work on strengthening my resolve, patience, love and chin. I will work on thickening my skin. And, of course, I will work on GAL and improving myself to be the man that God always intended me to be.
Quote: Keep your chin up, pray, read and pick yourself up. You've done it before and you'll do it 1000 more times before it's all said and done.
Quote: When you first came here, you found the fire pretty quick.
Thank you for noticing.
Quote: Problem is, you think once you've pulled YOUR head out of YOUR ass, your spouse should do the same in a fairly short amount of time.
Yep. Sucks that I did what I did to hurt my M, W, and family. Sucks that my want is not a reality.
Quote: I knew you were headed for a fall. And I had to let you.
My story (to me) seems so unique. Dumb a$$, I know. Same as my marital problems. Seemed they were unique to me as well. To top it all off, I didn't seek out info like DB/DR BEFORE I stepped out of my marriage and jeopardized my M and my family life. Of course, I was TOO smart to think about the consequences clearly. I was hurting and justified my stupidity with my hurt and feeling of lack in my M.
Quote: So what was that imagined "date" you had in your mind that you'd be reconciled by?
Already came and went.
Quote: See now a chain of events has been kicked into high gear. Now it's HER that's lost. Keep your mouth closed regarding the R. Keep your eyes on the hills.
It is now clear to me what you meant in your previous counsel to me; I cannot help her find herself, correct? God needs to work in her life and she needs to seek God and be open to His message. You told me about the wounds in my M and in my W that are beyond my healing powers and I need to turn them and my W over to Him to heal.
Quote: THAT'S where your Help comes from.
I see, I SEE. Time to grow my faith and work on giving up control of my life and happenings by turning it all over to God.
Quote: This is where you take your hands off the wheel.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't scared to give up control. I've been struggling to do this recently and even though my life under my control is a disaster in some very important ways, I am still deathly afraid. I am searching for the reason why I am so afraid when I have failed so often to act righteously in the past.
Here is an answer to you question about my thoughts on the affair blog.
I truly wish I had found DB/DR, Torn Asunder, and this blog. The impact on me would have, I truly believe, kept me from stepping out on my M, my W, and my children. I feel worse now than I ever did before because reading the blog and the comments has truly made my disastrous decision look even more cowardly, immature, amoral, thoughtless, selfish, and monstrous.
The blog mentions that
Quote: Affairs come from a need that a person believes is not being met. What I find so upsetting is that both men and women fail to communicate that need to their spouse.
THAT was me. My unmet needs were needing to feel affirmation, adoration, affection, and appreciation. Even accomodation was missing, as my W was there, but not really. (Those 5 A's are from Torn Asunder, by Dave Carder) As she defines it now, she needed/s "me" time. What I needed (& still need) wasn't coming from home and I was too scared and cowardly to go to my W to discuss my needs to devise a plan WITH her to improve our M. Honestly, I was afraid she would just want to throw in the towel on our M because that is what she said to me all too often. I know, I was a total chicken sh*t.
The COMMNTS go on further explaining the problems accompanying a mid-life crisis. It also says that often the person in the thoes of a MLC doen't even realize what is happening to them. My personal counselor also mentioned that I was the right age to be going thru a MLC. The blog further explains men and women go thru hormonal changes which helps facilitate out of character behavior. One other ingredient to the volatile A cocktail mix in my life was low self-esteem, made worse by my NEED to make myself happy by trying to make my W happy, but to no avail, thus I often felt like a failure. I also generally felt "measured" by my wife. She was not shy about telling me the ways that I was not "measuring up." Sad thing is, she did (& doesn't) see it and I was awful about being gently assertive. Sometimes, after biting my tongue for so long I struck back and then she would say that wasn't her "intention." I then did a cowardly thing, for fear of my W's reaction in talking to her regarding MY needs from her in our M, I stepped out to obtain my need for appreciation, adoration and affirmation. My fear was from my W's penchant for telling me she wanted a D, as I posted in my origingal thread. That was my stupidity in thinking that NOT talking with the one person I should have been taling to about our M would somehow keep us married. It seemed logical when I was knee deep in the BS I was slogging through. Nothing makes less sense than trying to save your M by yourself with no plan, no roadmap, no help.
To this day, her good intention is her honest "defense" to saying what she wants/feels. I have given up trying to explain to her that good intentions are useless when the action/words are seemingly thoughtless and definitely hurtful to others. I am not sure she will ever get that, but I pray she does because we have 2 beautiful children who do not deserve to be impacted by my W's "intentions."
Going further, ReBeliever mentioned feeling spiritually empty. I actually described my feelings as being spiritually bankrupt. Same desperate feeling. I used my feeling to blast through my marital vows and selfishly and stupidly disregard the consequences of infidelity.
In listening to more comments, I read some items that made me feel like a worm. Items like: *how can a man give up on his family?<---cowardice. *It's about love, respect, commitment, loyalty...things that you owe to your spouse.<---how did I abandon my morals? *This affair is not just about you..your kids were deeply affected and this is so horrible.<---don't I know it now. *Nothing will change the past..sorry will not cure it.<---don't I know it. *adultery is seen as a very cruel act in the courtroom.<---I agree. *Shutting people out is easer than admitting to being a scumbag.<---vividly describes how I feel. *Hold on to the people who offer you grace.<---I do. *He cheated on all of us as far as I am concerned.<---I have to live with what I have done. *...the scars will never go away....<---I have to live with my impact. *Eventually, a man like me will bring upon himself more punishment than anyone else could inflict.<---I have. *...regret, remorse and sadness....<---my feelings. *I just want you to know that your confusion/guilt/etc cannot compare to the pain your wife felt when you turned her world upside down. You did not have to turn to another woman and thereby punish your wife with feelings of inadequacy, insecurity and a fear of trusting people...whether that be you afterwards, or any other men who enter her life. The scars will stay with her for the rest of her life and that is YOUR fault.<---couldn't hit closer to home. *violate my W's trust. <---ouch. *isn't it more like-fear, guilt and shame that keeps affairs in the dark?<---absolutely.
I now know that my A has caused my W to question her value as a person, W, friend, mother, lover. My affair was a blow to her trust in me, faith in me, love for me. I was deceitful during my A because I was ashamed. I didn't tell ANYONE. My A was thought up in secrecy and carried out in secrecy. I am still so disappointed with myself that the shame was not enought to kick me in the nuts hard enough to make me understand that I was doing something immoral, shameful, deceitful, disrespectful, and destructive. Not wanting to share my actions should have been a siren telling me to STOP! DON'T GO THERE! Unfortunately, I was hurting, selfish, suffering from low-self esteem, feeling like a failure, and desperately wanting those 5 A's. Unfortunately, I didn't have words for what I was feeling. I had a hole in my being that I couldn't fill. Also, I was so full of myself that I didn't look outside of myself for counsel to work on me and work on my M.
ReBeliever writes
Quote: I did not deserve grace or forgiveness from her, but I wished for it.
A sobering fact. I know I also do not deserve grace or forgiveness from my W, but I do wish for it, everyday.
ReBeliever also gives the following:
Quote: What Pulled Me to My Family *My children. *A sense of duty. *A sense of shame. *A faint hope.
What pulled Me to Linda actually there is NO Linda for me. What I Hope For With My Wife *Affirmation. *Connection. *Comfort. *Sex And some that I added from Torn Asunder *Accomadation. *Adoration. *Affection. *Appreciation.
My thoughts echo ReB's closely, with my additions. And of course, I would work to find out what EXACTLY my W's needs are (from her) so that both she and I will be fulfilled IN our M and not feel the need to look to others.
One of the comments is a W saying,
Quote: My husband's affair is over for him, but sadly not for me, he has lost the one true and honest love of his life.
D*mnit. I have truly ruined the love that my W held for me and she may never be able to love me as her H again. THAT crushes my spirit.
Well, GH, those are my thoughts for today. I will add more later. I have 5 posts left to read. I'll get through them tomorrow. I am tired and need to get some sleep. Any prayers and positive thoughts for my strength, faith, and perseverence would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
*children are the unintended victems. <---absolutely. Hindsight again. Grrrr. *I remember a lot of confusion (child explaining his feelings) <---brings me to tears that this is my D5's feelings. *(same sone expressing feelings)...it was my birthday, and all that happened was when I came home there was a card from mom and a book from you, and it made me feel really unappreciated at the time, like everyone was too busy with their own problems to worry about my birthday...<---again, choke up. My worst fear coming to life in vivid detail. *(youngest son) It's stupid we all have to pay for something we didn't do, but that's what happens sometimes... <---Ugh, I know I can't change the past, but I sure wish every day that I could. And every day I work on forgiving myself for my transgresssion.
I am saddened by that VERY real possibility that we may never have family time like we experienced family time in the past. Also, I read comments of spouses who chose a different path than mine has chosen and that makes me sad. I don't pursue my W, I don't bug her to reconcile, I don't pressure her to spend time with me. I have chosen to stand back and to DB and workn on bettering, accepting and forgiving myself. I have also chose to focus my energy on loving my children and growing my patience with my D5 who is VERY confused by all of this.
What I don't do is speak ill of my wife for playing the hand that I dealt her as she sees fit. It's her life; her right. I will never forget that I am the one who dealt her this crappy hand. Sometimes I will think selfish, pitiful thoughts and I tell myself to stop it. I love that woman. Always will. She deserved better from me. She deserved for me to come to HER to discuss my feelings of lack in our marriage. She deserved for me to be a man, not a coward. I hope that I will get that chance in the future to be the man she wanted when we married.
I agree with a lot of what ReB says in If I Could Go Back. I also
Quote: have little doubt as to what my choice (regarding an A) would be. If I could go back, I would not have an affair. I wouldn't even to close to the line.
I also would
Quote: ...like to think I would make other choices as well. Instead of just accepting the state of my marriage, I'd want to be more honest in dealing with it's problems--no longer pretending my disappointments didn't exist--and work harder at understanding how I contributed to the conidition of our relationship. I'd want to put more effort into salvaging my marriage instead of escaping from it.
Amen. Too bad real life doesn't have a d*mn rewind feature to undo what we've done wrong. I know that all I can do is learn, live, and love, so that is my plan. I am learning from my mistakes and my correct decisions, I am working on GAL, and I love my W, our children, our families, my friends, and I love ME. Loving me is a novel concept. I am kinda liking it.
In closing, on Post 26 Words I never Heard, ReB said that he needed his W's forgiveness for them to have any chance of survival as a married couple. He stated that he never received that. I fear that that will be my fate also. I can't make my W forgive my cowardly decision and my terrible failure to communicate my feelings to her regarding the state of our M. I do pray daily that God will show His will to her and that my W will not only hear His word, but be open to listening and acting towards my redemption, our restoration and our reconciliation.
I wholeheartedly agree with ReB, that my A was not my W's fault. She does share 50% of the blame for the deterioration of our M over time. One of the most troubling aspects of my DBing efforts is that my W has maintained that she ALWAYS gave 110% to our M and that I am 99% of the problem in our M. ReB says that his W needed to acknowledge her part in the deterioration of the M for it to survive. I am VERY afraid that that insight will not be coming for my W. Since that is my belief, I am extremely sad. Sad but hopeful. Hopeful but not optimistic. Again, I know I need to rely on my faith and believe that only God has the ability to heal me, my W and only God has the ability to offer restoration, redemption and reconciliation.
ReB stated that he never received forgiveness. Thus far, I have not received forgiveness. However, during my long intimate conversation with my W the other day, she actually realized that, NO, she had not forgiven me. Strange as it may sound, I believe that that realization by her is the start of removing some stones from the huge wall she has built around herself to protect her from someone (ME) who has proven himself to be so untrustworthy, deceitful and unreliable. I know that I have not right to expect forgiveness, but I hope for it each and every day.
I have ONLY been honest with my W since my A came to light. I have:
-profusely apologized for my terrible chosen path
-promised a life of unfailing monogamy
-answered all of her questions
-stood tall against her anger w/o excuses or my being angry myself
-took what I had coming from her
-vowed to always be open and honest with her regarding OR
ReB wrote that he would have like to hear something similar to this from his W:
Quote: "You have hurt me more deeply than I ever thought possible. You broke your promise and violated my trust. I need you to understand my pain and help me move throught it. But I sill love you. I still want you. If you will commit yourself to never seeing Linda again, and working with me to discover how we can make something better out of our marriage, then I will not hold this affair over you head. It will take time...it will take work...but I will give you a fresh start. I will forgive you."
Now, I know that ReB wrote that, but I would love to have my W tell me something similar, to express a willingness to let me back into her life as something more than the father of our children. I know that I have NO control over her willingness to forgive me and release herself from the hurt of my A. For now I must wait, believe, put my trust in God, pray for Him to show me and her what, where, and how He wants us to be. Patience has never been my strong suit. But I get better every day. Giving up "control" to God has never been my strong suit. But I get better every day.
FORGIVENESS
Quote: My W's forgiveness was not sokmething I could requrei from her. It is a gift that some give, while others do not. Without it, though, the wounds of an affair are not likely to heal. Also, in listening to Torn Asunder, they talk about when forgiveness is not granted, the person unwilling to give forgiveness will carry the unhealed wounds with them throughout their lives, especially when children are involved. I hope to someday receive the forgiveness that I long for. I would be incredibly thankful if my W would soten her stance and be willing to again work on making our M what we both wanted and deserve.
In the comments, ReB states more that I agree with. I agree that it is possible to offer forgiveness and that trust and respect must be earned over time with consistent reassuring, expected behavior. With respectul and trustworthy behavior, trust WILL be re-built with a lot of hard work on my part. We drifted apart in our M. My W often went out with friends to relax. My thought of relaxation was to come home and be with our children and her. With gently assertive conversation regarding my wants and needs in our M, I believe we would have found a fulfilling balance for both of us.
Another comment:
Quote: good marriages don't "just happen" - and it takes 2!
More from ReB that I agree with.
Quote: ...if a marriage is to heal after an affair has taken place, then both spouses have to own up to the ways they contributed to the condition of ther relationship.
The reason for my fear spoken by ReB. I worry that my W will now forgive me, will not own up to her part in the deterioration of our M, choosing to abandon the blaming.
ReB's story reminded me of a conversation with my W about a year ago. After she had had a rough day(don't really remember the particulars), I asked her,
Quote: "Why are you so mean and nasty with me? You don't treat anyone else this badly."
Her response has haunted me. She said,
Quote: "Because I know I can be myself around you and I know you will never leave me."
I was hurt by what she said and also honored. She knew how much I loved her because I always showed that to her. Unfortunately, I felt as though the constancy of my love was boring and devalued. Definitely a strange dichotomy.
Well, those are my thought on the affair blog and on my own A & M. I hope for the best.
I pray that God will show me and my W His will.
I pray that both she and I will have our eyes open to see His will.
I pray that both she and I will have the willingness to ACT on His word.
I hope the I will be redeemed.
I hope that I will receive her forgiveness.
I hope that our M and OR will be restored.
I hope that we will have reconciliation and make our M better than it ever was before.
