You are still sounding good. Sorry about the last bit.
Two words of advice -- TELL HIM why you are pissy "I am very hurt and confused, which I'm expressing through anger, because I was feeling closer to you this weekend. But when we got back friend let slip that you had pretty much been living with OW and I noticed that you emailed her from my house. I feel pretty deceived and betrayed by these things."
Second, slap slap, YOU KNOW NOTHING. Re his email...
He could have meant:
He wish things hadn't ended.
But, I expect he meant something like...
Things have ended, but he wishes she wouldn't have been so hurt.
Things have ended, but he wishes she wouldn't be threatinging to tell you everything.
Things have ended, but he wishes she wouldn't have turned into a psycho b*tch.
Things have ended and he really wishes she wasn't going to sue him for sexual harrassment.
Things have ended, but he wishes they could be friends.
(This last is pretty standard for all As. People want to feel like it really meant something, that they really cared for the person, etc... It makes them feel better for awhile because they can't really face the ultimate pointlessness of the A.)
So, anyway, I expect he was much closer with you this weekend because he has ENDED it. But, you are right that you don't want to act like everything is hunky dory too quickly. He is obviously still working through the break up.
Remember, you only want a new R with SO that works for you. You are acting like you are starting a new R with him, so do not allow it to include things that don't work for you.
Thank GH & OT...I haven't really read your responses, just want to get this posted asap....I'll get back to them in a bit.
So, the latest *THING*. It started this morning with me asking him NOT to come here today. I told him that it was time for me to start moving on and that I felt him coming here was hurting me when I didn't know what it meant. He wouldn't take no for an answer...then when he got here we talked a bit.
He said his Saturday nights were ending, and he won't have the money to pay rent and mortgage. That he would move back here. Somehow we got around to me telling him I hated it here because it was too far from where he worked and where my old company was (who called with ANOTHER job proposition, BTW.) He asked, where would you live, I said I wouldn't mind living back in Town X again. He said "Do you want me to sell the house?" I said "That's your decision and yours alone." He said, "Well I bought it for you."
I think I'm getting the order mixed up here...but the end result...that he said he "has to move back in, within one month, 2 at the most". I'm really upset. I told him that I would have to move out then. He said he moved out because I asked him to. I said "I asked you to move out because you were messing with another girl and then sleeping next to me every night and it was messing with my head."
I know, I know - no effective communication going on today. Althouhg, we "talked", not argued, I must say that. No yelling or blaming or anything like that. Sitting on the couch, his feet over my legs, just quietly talking. For once. And he even commented on how I looked two days ago. ??
I don't even know what to do or say to him. Or if I should. I don't like thinking he's going to move back here for "lack of money". That really hurts. I don't know if I should tell him that or just wait this out. And, even if he moved back here, me moving out would be the same damned cost as him living somewhere - as a matter of fact, his place is cheaper since it's only a one bedroom - I would need at least a 3, which is way more money. And why am I thinking about moving out anyway? I know why, out of my hurt that he hasn't said anything about "us". That's why. My defensive mechanism kicking in. And I swear, I could feel this coming in the last week or so. I feel like OK, he moved out to see if he could make a go of it with OW, it didn't work out, so now out of convenience he wants to move back here.
NM, I don't know what's wrong with you either. Your SO has told you that he's done with the OM and wants to move back in with you, and now you won't let him until he gets down on his needs and says he's sorry or something?
I mean, if you want to insist that he go to counseling with you, if you want him to be more accountable with his time, or if you don't want him back unless he agrees to get married right away ... then go ahead and talk about it, for crying out loud. LET HIM KNOW what you want. Your SO wants to reconcile and you won't let him because he doesn't know the magic words to say because he can't read your mind.
Come on, girl!
Last edited by RBinBR; 06/01/0601:02 AM.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
I understand what you're saying...yet, somehow it doesn't feel right. Ok, on one hand, supposedly it's over with OW, yet there's been nothing from him regarding "us". And I don't want it to turn into a pseudo-relationship. If he moves back here without a commitment to me, or us, then what's the point? That's my struggle.
Ok, you are heading to a place I am VERY familiar with so let me share what I know and what I feel, the good, bad and ugly.
You know most of this, but my W says the A is over, has been over for some time now. Great! The only problem is that I see NO signs of affection from her. I see NO signs, well ALMOST no signs that she is actively working on "us" in any way. She seems at best to be tolerating my physical attention. In a way, I hate this sitch but in another way, I understand it, or at least I think I do.
My W has told me that she needs time to work her way back. I don't really know what that means but I can feel that she is right. In her mind, and she's said this, she feels like she had one foot out the door and the other one well on it's way when things started to change for the better with me. Mix that idea with all the OM stuff and she has a real $hit storm of bad vibes to deal with in terms of reconciling "us" in her mind. To her, and SO, there was no "us" a couple months ago yet they sense that we just want to go right back to some from of "us" that is even deeper and more connected than ever.
Of course we want that. WE never left the "us" behind and though we now understand that there needs to be fundamental changes in the definition of what the R is, we don't really need much transition time to work on it. We have been working all along so for us, it's "go time".
The A is over, they are "back" so WTH, why no affection? Why no ILY? Why no intimacy?
Well, it's simple, they are not ready for all that. What they ARE ready for is to not have the OP in their lives and to "come back" but they are not ready for all the deep connection WE need from them right now. That's not to say they will never be ready, or that you can't let them know what you want for the future of your R, but expecting them to just jump right back in is not really realistic.
I know you don't want the kind of R with SO you had before. I don't want the same marriage I had with my W either, but right now it sure feels that way. What I cling to all the time in my sitch is the idea that if things don't go better this time around, it will probably be ME that decides that and has to break things off. I can do that now, or wait and see what happens. I didn't fight all this time to give up now just because I can't really see progress on a daily basis, and if I really look at my sitch, and you look at yours, we both should see how much real progress we have made and take some happiness from that.
NM, don't cut your nose off to spite your face. I know you are really scared that this is for the "wrong" reason, and you have every right to be afraid. You also have the right to set a boundary that he can't come back until he is ready to go "all in" but I think that may prevent a necessary step, or at least one that lives in his mind, of learning to co-exist on a daily basis before taking things up to the next level.
As for him not having a commitment to you, well, my W has committed in words to "us" but not really saying "I want to be with you forever and make this work." She has said all kinds of things LIKE that, but never really that to the point. I don't sweat it because I know every day I grow and work on this is another day I am closer to being truly happy with myself AND my marriage. I really believe that.
Last thing I will leave you with is that the book OT has me reading, and that Mama just read, may do you some good. It's called Passionate Marriage and it deals with the idea of learning to be your own person in close emotional proximity with your partner. It goes into a lot of more sexual things, but I think that is the gist. I think this may help you because I think you are struggling with the idea that if he moves back in, you lose some of yourself in the process, or you compromise some of your standards. This book suggests (as does OT a lot of the time) that so long as you CHOOSE to adjust your standards or "give of yourself" and don't feel forced to do it, things will be ok and you WILL grow from the experience.
Again, just consider what is being talked about here and look at your own goals and see what may be the right thing to do right now, for YOU.
My advice is to not take GH's advice here I actually don't think much will change in his sitch until he chooses to stop tolerating it as it is and he stops coddling his W. She feels no crisis w/him and there is no pressure on her to change.
Anyway, IMHO, complacency is not the answer here. What needs to change will not change and you will be right back where you have been with an R that isn't working for anyone. You need to ONLY accept an R that works for you on your own terms. Sure, your own terms should involve some compromise. But, this does not mean SO can waltz back in and pick up where he left off. THE OLD R IS OVER. Only a new R is possible, so why start off with one that you don't want to begin with?
RB is right that some very firm and clear boundaries about what will work in terms of him returning to the house are called for. And, you need to COMMUNICATE those boundaries directly.
It is crazy for him to just think he can move back home. You do not have to agree to live with him. I do think that your immediate reaction -- that you just run away -- is pretty much more of the same and a whole lot of regression from you.
My guess is that you are still VERY ANGRY about him living with OW and emailing her after your weekend. That anger is interferring with you working through this latest news. Instead, you are acting out by threatening to run away.
Get a grip. You aren't going anywhere with 3 kids without a job, childcare, reliable transportation, etc... As you noted yourself, it is more cost effective for SO to continue to live elsewhere. As I see it, until YOU are willing to live with HIM, his options are to stay in an apartment or get you a separate house with enough room for the kids and furnish it, etc...
This is not simply his choice. He is not simply entitled to come home. If he can afford a new truck and stuff to dress it up, he can afford to stay out of the house. If he is working less, he can babysit more so that you can generate income. There are many creative alternatives.
Now, I actually think that he wants to come home because he wants to reconcile. But, NEITHER of you are communicating in an open way. NEITHER of you are sharing your feelings in a way that can lead to productive conversations in which you actually work through anything.
I suggest that you really try to be honest with him about what is going on with you and your feelings.
I suggest that you focus on setting boundaries. These require telling him what you will do in certain conditions. Boundaries are not about telling him what to do. They are not rules for him, they are rules for you.
Why in the world would you consider, for instance, allowing someone to move in with you when you aren't in an R in which you can ask why he was emailing some woman he was involved with from your house?
Why in the world would you consider, for instance, allowing someone to sleep in your bed if you have no idea if they want an R with you?
If you don't express some of your hurt and anger over what has been going on, then I'd say the chances are slim for you to have any kind of successful R with SO. Right now your understandable hurt, pain, resentment and anger is toxic and polluting any kind of hopeful situation that is apparently arising.
Quit acting out. Take responsibility for your life. Communicate.
Ouch. Damn, that was a backhand all the way from over here!
Ok, well I guess I am just personalizing my advice to her, as you well pointed out. I have been "living with someone who I unsure of having a R with" for 7 months and so far, so good. I agree that I need to stop coddling my W but I disagree that it's not possible to START in one place and end up somewhere else. I think RB and I are simply saying that he seems to be heading in the right direction and to allow that. You are saying that until all his ducks are in the rows, the specific kind of rows NM wants to see them in, he should not be allowed back. I guess I get that but part of me things there is still wiggle room there.
Maybe that's why I am not making progress. I actually think I am but I can see that my sitch may be stalled out. Again, I attribute that to other things (DUI case) but once that's gone, who knows.
I just think there CAN be pressure applied if he moves back in, but I also understand why you advise her not to let him.
NM, you have a choice to make, one that will require strength no matter what you do. Look within yourself and make the decision YOU feel will allow you to get what YOU want in the long run.
Ummm, I never advised her not to let him come home.
I advised her to get some things straight and set boundaries for herself. He should not simply wake up one morning and decide to move home and bring his stuff by in the afternoon.
Some kind of communication and working through of issues needs to happen, some boundaries need to be set and communicated.
Having all one's ducks in a row is a bit over the top. But an understanding, at minimum, that this isn't merely for financial reasons and that there is a commitment to working on a committed R does seem appropriate.
They aren't even married! Why would NM want to live and sleep with someone who has hurt her so much because it is financially convenient for him? In what way does that respect her as a human being, or him, for that matter?
It comes down to respecting oneself and one's feelings. No one needs to accept anything that makes them feel used.
At the same time, I agree with you and RB. I think that NM's own feelings of hurt and anger that go unexpressed are interferring with what could be real progress here. She is punishing him by not giving him a chance rather than communicating and really trying to work to see if there is a possibility for an R she might want to try here.
BTW, your comment here made me want to ask you another question, I'll go back to your thread...
This is just so damned frustrating. Especially when I can see & understand everyone's different point of view. I feel a little bit of what each of you has said.
Argh. No decisions will be made today! That's one good thing. I need time to think about this...
Thanks to all of you....I'm reading along here, BTW. Just don't know what to say to each of your posts. Although I have to ask...is the direct approach appropriate? And what's the proper thing to say? If you're not willing to work on an R with me, then don't even think about moving back here?
How do I put boundaries in place without sounding like I'm issuing orders?
Althouhg, we "talked", not argued, I must say that. No yelling or blaming or anything like that. Sitting on the couch, his feet over my legs, just quietly talking. For once. And he even commented on how I looked two days ago. ?? 
I actually don't think much will change in his sitch until he chooses to stop tolerating it as it is and he stops coddling his W. She feels no crisis w/him and there is no pressure on her to change.
Especially when I can see & understand everyone's different point of view. I feel a little bit of what each of you has said.