She actually has equal control in most other areas, I just do all the paperwork. I did not marry her to be a demure "yes: wife. I include her on all financial decisions or anything else of relevance; home, school, church, investments, etc. I have offered to help her start a business or go to additional schooling. She get's a business idea and then it fizzles.
At first she resisted being in on all the decisions and did not want to be involved, but now she sees the merit of being involved as I explained that she could learn a great deal and be independent should anything happen to me. Her prior marriage was to a control freak who did not include her and even hid many things. There was a lot of mind games by the EX and this continues even now over custody issues.
I suppose you are right in that she has the security with me, but I thought that was my job to provide anyway. I have still not figured out why she does not "put out". The MC is ok, but I do not see much coming out of it. She does admit to somethings there, but mostly when she is asked a question that she does not want to answer...she says "I do not know" or goes off on some answer that does not pertain to the question. Further the C does not seem to reel her in and force a response...probably because he knows that he'll get an "I don't know" answer.
Don't get me wrong by my posts, I have my faults. She has asked for changes both prior to and in MC. I have made some/most of those changes and not agreed to others (all approved by the MC).
My point I guess is that since the marriage started she has made negative changes (that were contradictory to pre-marriage behavior & agreements) and has not corrected them. Yet she asks me to make changes that were never discussed premarriage. Even so, I have made many of those changes based the "for better or worse" marriage vow.
I cannot just give up sex indefinitely and without any explantion. I have told her this. I just do not know that there is much more I can do/sacrafice. Is it time to go?????
Quote: I cannot just give up sex indefinitely and without any explantion. I have told her this. I just do not know that there is much more I can do/sacrafice. Is it time to go?????
I am with you on this. The once-in-a-blue-moon sex thing is driving me crazy though I know why my H does it... anger, resentment, wanting to hold on the the 'victim' role... he is a man that self-admits that he likes to hold grudges. Just never thought it would be against me. As for is it time to go? Only you can decide that. I have alot of years invested with my H (28 total) and find that I cannot just walk away if there is any hope at all. Which is at present quite the roller-coaster ride. Don't think I have a stomach left from all the drops!
Quote: She has asked for changes both prior to and in MC. I have made some/most of those changes and not agreed to others (all approved by the MC).
I'm not sure what you mean about 'agreements' prior to marriage... verbally agreed upon? I really don't think of marriage as a business contract... to many emotions involved for that. How do you 'contract' something like that?
If your MC is NOT really helping; as in NOT holding your W accountable for her part in your R I suggest you find a new MC. Something needs to shake your W out of her silence and say why she behaves as she does. If takes a new MC then I'd do it immediately.
Quote: I suppose you are right in that she has the security with me, but I thought that was my job to provide anyway.
I guess that's a traditional thought but it is not your obligation if she is 'using' you for that security. She either needs to step up and become a contributing partner in your R or...
Your situation sounds exactly like mine, except that I've been married for 9 years. My wife and I have never been to counseling and she has never made any effort that I'm aware of (i.e. doctor, therapist, etc.) to find out what caused her to lose her libido, but otherwise I could have written your post. With respect to the following:
Quote: She has gone to Doctors and Therapists to figure out why she lost her libido (and the timing is suspect as it happened right after we got married and has stayed that way ever since).
I have a theory on why my wife seemed to lose all interest in sex and romance the very moment we were married. I honestly don't think it was anything intentional (i.e. bait and switch) although that thought has crossed my mind many times. I think that when my wife and I were dating, she had a fear of ending up alone which motivated her (subconciously) to make me happy so I wouldn't break up with her. Once we were married, that fear suddenly disappeared, and with it her motivation to make me happy. I believe that she still loves me just as much as she used to, but with everything going on in our lives, I have become her lowest priority. I'm sure there are other factors involved, but I was curious to find out if anyone else has thought this before. Of course, even if I've hit the nail on the head, I'm not sure how it will help to make anything better.
Wow - this sounds just like my marriage. Only mine's been going on for 9 years now... in the past we've had plenty of arguments about it but nothing improved. She's seeing a counselor every once in a while, but I'm hot even sure they discuss sex. She was given some viagra but refuses to try it. Sex during the week is out of the question, as working 6-8 hours is just too much apparently. She spends more time and gives mroe affection to the pets than to me. I could do all the housework (a favorite excuse) and still never free enough time. Even when we do manage to get to the bedroom, it's quite boring, nothing new at all. She kisses closed-mouth (like the original poster's W) and that frustrates me to no end. Make-out sessions: a distant and faded memory! She doesn't like to be touched anymore, even if I'm not trying to "get some" but just to be affectionate. The pets can lick her and lay on her though, and that's OK, whereas I can't. I've pretty mcuh given up on the whole thing - arguing about it doesn't help, and when we do she just finds more shortcomings of mine to blame her low drive on. (Like, I don't do enough housework, which I have really improved on).
We don't have kids (how could we, when we never do it).
The super frustrating part of it all is, she used to be sexually active before we were married (previous boyfriends). I'm tired of being rejected. I'm decent looking and maintain myself as if I were still dating. I haven't let myself go.
One time, a few years ago, she was willing to put out and just assumed that I was in the mood also. I thought telling her that I wasn't interested might show her how it felt to be rejected, but that didn't really help either. To be honest though, it did feel a bit good to dish it out instead of taking it all the time.
I don't think I'm asking for all that much - twice a week? And some spontaneity, instead of the "are you interested?" exchange then off to the bedroom, no foreplay, just do it and get it over with thing.
Not sure what my point is -- just saying "me too" I guess! Hope your situation works out.
Bookworm - It's nice to know there is other's out there dealing with the exact same problems. I don't understand why low desire wifes don't want the sex life to get better. Isn't the marriage important enough to them to at least try?
I'm not married yet because my low desire girlfriend exhibits everything your wife does. I don't want to go into the marriage thinking this will change.
It was not a contract, but we had a series of discussions surrounding expectations and compatability for marriage. Call me crazy, but I wanted to discuss (before marriage) these issues; such as money, kids, religion, sex, etc, so as to be on the same page and avoid a potential misunderstanding. Remember, there are pre-existing kids (hers) so it's not just the two of us to be concerned about. The MC, we have now had to stop going as frequently...it's very expensive. Therefore; I am mostly back on my own to deal with this issue. This past week, I got some more comments from her that she was interested or wanted to ML and then, as the norm, nothing actually happened. This is even more frustrating. She also said that we just ML the other day, when actually it was weeks or months ago.
It's so annoying and frustrating to feel like I have to be constantly appeasing to her in the hope that maybe maybe she will become interested.
I am at the point now where I just want to tell her, look-I understand, it is what it is. I recognize she loves me in some way, but she is just not interested in me. And that perhaps I should stay away for a while and tell the kids that I am out of town on business.
Anyway, sounds like I am not alone here. While it's nice to get feedback from people in a like situation, I feel for you and wish you all were not where I am.
Ok, I had a conversation this morning with my W. I explained my frustrations and feeling 'controlled' by the no sex issue; i.e. feeling the need to appease her on every front to get her in the mood, along with the stars/moon all lining up just right, it being a leap year, kids out of house and if I skipped rope on only my left foot for 3 minutes all at the same time. I told her this was not a threat, but I just needed her to know how I felt.
I made an anology to her that she wanted something about 2 months ago that was not a "need" item in terms of the family budget. It was quite expensive and we have been budgeting money. She told me that she felt controlled financially that she could not have it. This went on for about a month including at the MC, where she cried about it. Anyway, I did relent and agree to spending the money as it was important to her. I explained that this 'control' is how I felt about the no sex issue and I had been dealing with it for 2 years, not 1 month.
She asked what suggestions I had to fix it. Frankly, after 2 years of trying everything imagineable, I did not know of anything I could do. I cannot and do not want to force her into sex. I left it in her court to figure out what would make her re-attracted to me or back interested in our premarriage sexual connection. Also I explained that I was willing to make some more changes if she feels it might help, but that I would not change "who I am" as a person.
At the end if the discussion, I reiterated that I was not threatening her, but I was unhappy and was very much struggling with the situation.
It appears that the anology I made in the discussion may have hit home (I hope) so maybe this will at least get her thinking. I do not want to leave, but I am very concerned that after this long a period and this big an issue being made, her drive will only get lower as years pass.
Please let me know any suggestions you all may have or critique if what I did was the best approach.
i think your approach was right on the money. by telling her that you are unhappy, but that you are not giving up - and that you've tried everything you can think of, and are STILL willing to do more if it will help... i think you have put the ball, appropriately, in her court. if i am not mistaken, this is what michelle advises, and it is all we can do. i feel exactly as you do. i would never want to 'force' it... and 'gifts' will never amount to genuine desire. what has helped me so far... is to set goals that are specifially time-oriented. as if to say 'do whatever it takes for you to get turned-on... take your time and pick you night or day... but it has to happen at least once a week'... and the consequences, i told my fiance, are not that i will leave... but that we will drift further apart. not by my choice. but it will just happen. and that has really scared her. almost as scared as i have been for months that this will never change. after we've done everything we can... we have to put it in their court. i think you did the right thing. i only suggest making some goals with a time limit and consequences that affect both of you...
Thanks for your feedback. I recognize my W is LD, although it seems oddly coincidental that she had a regular drive pre-marriage and as soon as we got married, there was a drive change. Perhaps this is coincidental, but it's pretty hard to disregard that time line.
As you suggest, I will try to set some time frame goals. It will have to be done in such a way so as not to imply pressure as I do not want to force it.
I too have had the discussions of how this will drive a wedge between us (drift apart), which it has in some ways. We are hanging in there, but often I feel as though there is no hope. She gets angry if I bring it up and this turns into occasional arguments. I recognize that does not help matters, but also I feel the need to express the pain/frustration in hopes of cooperatively finding middle ground.
It's a difficult balance between being sensitive to her feelings/issues and at some points, putting my foot down.
