GH, you are such a sweetheart, TOO Good to be true actually.
I hope with all of my heart that everything works out for you. You really deserve it. I would give anything for my H to be half the man you are right now.
Quote: GH, you are such a sweetheart, TOO Good to be true actually.
Yea, I think my W thinks that too. I think she doesn't trust all this. I guess I don't blame her in a way. The problem is that for the duration of our M I was pretty much always thoughtful but not her "lover". Lately, or really, since the kids were born and especially after S3, I managed to stop being even that.
I suppose it will take time to get her to believe again. I am just getting SO frustrated at waiting. Sometimes I feel like giving up and just stopping whatever it is I am doing, then I realize that to stop would mean to stop growing and "becoming" a better man and I decide to go on. I just have to keep the faith I guess.
Hi Grasshopper, Just checking in on you and offering my periodic words of encouragement I am profoundly moved on a regular basis with what a wonderful husband you are. The constant introspection you are doing is so healthy, and so helpful to all who witness you and are also working on our own growth. I know my posts are still overly focused on my H's behavior instead of my own. I have more letting go to do, and more personal work and behavioral changes as well. I am making progress, but it is slow... So then I think, with all the tools I have, and such a slow process of change, H's pace (with no outside support that I know of) makes so much sense. I do my best to keep focused on my goals. You are one of my constant inspirations. I am glad you are beginning to get some consistent hugs smiles and other rewards for your generous and thoughtful behavior. I know sometimes it feels like this
Quote: I think she doesn't trust all this
But I see how she really does get you, more and more each day. She is remembering who you are, as you do. And, I appreciate you so much, as I know many others do on this board (the love fest continues ) Thanks for being here and especially for the commitment you have made to yourself and to your marriage. There is no doubt in my mind you will be rewarded for your extraordinary efforts . So why wouldn't we want to just keep being better and better forever? You are on the right path, my friend.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Thank you. I don't know if I deserve all this praise but I will accept and appreciate it.
Back to real life....I just fell up my stairs and suffered a rather nasty toe-nail injury (no, really, I did). W was right there when it happened and in a moment of VERY bad-ness, I looked back at my W, who was looking more past me at the spilled milk (again, really, I was carrying milk up the stairs). She asked me if I was ok and I managed a "I was wondering if you were going to ask that first." I know, that was spiteful and uncalled for but call it my lash out for all the frustration I have been experiencing lately. She noticed I said that but I was in an EXTREME amount of pain and I think she just let it go. Anyway, I said I was sorry for that comment and let her help me with my injury a bit.
Hi GH, first time reading about yr situation and think you are a very understanding and loving H. I am writing to ask for yr advise cause I am like yr W, you have read mine...I had a 2nd A and I am so lost. I read about were usually man going astray hardly about women, you as a man please tell me how you feel?
My H wants D, I know its the easy way out for both of us rather then to face the problem. GH, what is making you working hard on your marriage despite your wife's action. Please enlighten me from a man's point of view.
I am sure your W is also filled with guilt, remorse and confused. As a women's point of view she is also afraid that you may reject her one day or feel angry. But from what i read you are very patient and understanding. Women needs alot of attention and little sweet stuff, listen to her more you will know what she needs and give the right things.
There is a poster - lkarolngst - in "I need support..." who could really use some help. If anyone has a moment, please check his thread out. He is a wreck.
You all say you like to read my posts...this will be the test...sorry for the marathon in advance...
Well, yesterday I feel off the wagon. I managed to get back on, but not before scraping my knees pretty badly.
First, some background on something I don't know if I mentioned before. We had this big, old, ugly couch in our living room that W has wanted to get rid of for a long time. During our last big R talk, she said that OM's brother, the one who according to her has been instrumental in helping her separate from OM and keeping him away from her, was moving with his W and kids to a new apartment and needed a couch. She asked me if I would mind if we gave it to him. I said I didn't know and would have to think about it. I told her that I wanted it gone but didn't know how I felt about him coming to our house, all things considered. In the end, I think I just said it was up to her but I was somewhat uncomfortable. She said if I was AT all uncomfortable, she would just give it to the Salvation Army.
That was a couple weeks ago...fast forward to last week. W tells me that OM's brother wants to come to get the couch on Memorial day. I didn't say much. Days went by and I really didn't think much of it until Sunday when she started to clean the thing up. That's when my fall started. Really, it started back when I did't either just accept the couch going to him, or say a definite "no" to it happening back when the original conversation happened. You know, that direct and honest stuff...damn.
So, W is busy cleaning the couch and I start making comments. I don't know where the hell my DB or "new me" went but he was nowhere to be found. Back was the passive/aggressive, sarcastic, caustic me that almost cost me my marriage. I was upstairs looking down on her cleaning. Earlier I had mentioned that I wanted to watch a movie with her but she said she had a lot to do and didn't think we'd have time. So, of course, being the old, controlling me, I was VERY upset that she was cleaning that damn couch for that damn relative of the OM and THAT was causting us our movie time. I said "You should just leave it dirty. It's free, let him clean it." She said she would be doing it no matter who was taking it away. I said that was BS. She still didn't bite. I clearly wanted a fight I guess but she wasn't going along with it. She just kept working and I kept making little comments. A bit later, I was walking past her and blurted out "I don't remember ever saying I was ok with this." She just replied "I told you when he wanted to come by and you didn't say anything. He's coming now, just accept it." Once again, I didn't say much. Later, in a really pathetic voice, I said "I liked it better when you gave a damn what I thought." By some strange force of will I have not seen much from W, she STILL didn't bite. She just said "I do care what you think but it's too late now. I wish you would have just been honest with me about how you felt." I said "I thought I told you I was uncomfortable with it." She said "Yes, and also that it was up to me in the end." I let it go again.
...until yesterday morning when things snowballed. All morning I was on edge. I really can't tell you why all of a sudden all my ability to detach and DB left me. I guess I decided that I wanted drama instead of progress.
From the first minutes we were up, I was pissy. Normally I get up with the kids but I told them that W was going to get up with them. I had every intention to stay in bed while he came. When the kids refused to let me sleep in, I got up and stomped around like a wounded peacock. Eventually, W and I talked about the plans for the day. Remember, I had hurt my toe and was sick so...
We had promised the kids a trip to Disney. W was saying how she had painting and things to do around the house (she really did, things we didn't get done the day before) and I said, in what I thought was a clearly sarcastic tone, "Ok, I will take the kids to Disney and you can stay home." That was all we said and a few minutes later, she said "I need you to check the bank balance before you go..."
I was set off. "What do you mean before I go, where are YOU going to be?" She said "You said you would take them." I said "I was not serious. I am sick and my toe hurts. Are you kidding?" She said "Then why go at all, just lay in bed and I will take them somewhere."
BTW, what a whining little b!tch I was being...I even knew that at the time and did nothing to stop. I HATE THAT!
We talked a bit more, I calmed down and said that I was ok to take them (back to passive again), that I was really feeling better and for her to just stay. She said she would go if I wanted her to. I said not if she didn't really want to go. Anyway, it was decided that I take them alone.
Oh, and it was not over...yet. When W was finishing up getting ready, I jumped in the shower, intending to be gone when before OM's brother arrived. As I was getting in, I uttered the most obvious thing ever said to another person in the history of mankind..."W, in case you haven't figured it out, I am pissed about the couch thing." She said something to the effect of "no $hit". I went on to say that I just needed to get over myself, and she agreed. She then called me on the shower thing, asking why I was trying to be gone before he arrived. I said I was concerned mostly about whether OM's brother was going to be with him. She said hell no and that I should never have been worried about that, or if I was, I should have talked to her about it.
Anyway, I just said I agreed and took my shower, assuring her that I was NOT leaving before he got there...(anymore).
He arrived, WITHOUT OM (just some friend and his kids to help), was a pretty nice guy and left without fanfare. He seemed to be a little uncomfortable but oh well.
After he left, I packed the kids up and as we were leaving, I could tell W was in a mood...wonder why. I sent the kids over to the couch where she was to say goodbye. Then I was trying to decide if I wanted to walk over to her and give her a hug. I decided against it, which was strange because I usually would. In the course of coming back for a few things I forgot, W still didn't get off the couch. I stopped and said "Did it ever occur to you to just give me a hug and reassure me things were ok instead of getting in a mood?" She said yes but now that I said it, it was moot. Anyway, I put on a little show of walking over and kissing the top of her head and leaving.
Oh, and it was not over...yet...
We had to turn back one more time to get S6's autograph book and I called W at home to have her bring it out to us. She didn't answer. As I was pulling back into the development, she was leaving, and on her phone...here it goes again. I made a U turn, honked at her and when she seemed to not acknowledge me, I just turned around again and sped back towards the house. A moment later she called me and asked what that was all about. I tried to sound calm, saying "nothing, I just forgot something", already upset at myself for continuing to act like an idiot but she saw through it, muttered something like "unbelievable" and said she was just going out to get cigs and would I like to follow her? I said no, but her sarcasm set me off again and I said "Well, I am upset at the fact that you couldn't seem to get off the couch to see us off but the minute we're gone, you're off somewhere..." She said, more angrily this time, "I am going to the store, you are more than welcome to follow me." I didn't respond. I knew this was likely true because she was watching some tennis on TV (W is a FANATIC when it comes to the tennis majors, and especially the French Open, so I have almost NO doubt about her intention to be right back home) and would want to watch the end. That was also why she didn't really get up to see us off, it was the end of a 5 set match and she was glued...no excuse really, but reason that when coupled with her being pissed at me, explaines her behavior.
After getting the book, I did stop by the store, bad decision #123 of the day, and she was already coming out to her car. I got out, she smiled and said it seemed like she was being followed by a detective. I said I wasn't following her, I just wanted my hug, hugged her, sincerely apologized for the morning and the night before and left. As I was leaving, she said "You know, this is the worst, when you act like you did this morning." I said, "I know." and uncharacteristically, left it at that. The REAL old me would have tried to "fix" things right there. The new me understood that I needed to stop right there and give us both time and space.
WTF? I just lost it. I don't know why. I don't like myself for it. I started immediately to try to stop myself. I just needed to get away from her for a few minutes and calm down. I knew no matter what, I SCREWED up. Again, I allow myself being upset at the couch sitch but NOT to handle it that way. My new way of thinking is that if I don't deal with something directly and honestly, then I just accept the consequences but I DON'T do the passive/aggressive thing. Well, I did it and I just hope there was not too much damage done.
There IS a silver lining to all this. I DO think W actually felt bad about the couch thing and if I didn't act like a little b!tch, she probably would have called him and told him not to take it. In the end, I THINK she may have understood that I was just upset and I did admit to being a jerk. Whatever the reason, she ended up calling me as we were almost at the part (we don't live that far away) and said she changed her mind, she wanted to go with us and was it too late. I said no, and said we'd be there to pick her up soon. The kids were ecstatic and actually, so was I because I really wanted to show that unlike the past, when something like the morning's events would have tainted my mood for at least the day, if not more, I really WAS the new man that understood that such behavior, however seemingly justified, was not good.
I picked W up and we proceeded to have a WONDERFUL day at Disney. Really, it was the best time we have all had together in a while.
Somewhere in all that drama, I did manage to tell W that even though it wasn't coming out well, "this is me trying to be honest with you about how I feel" and she said she understood that. Maybe that was what did the trick.
I don't know how that day turned out well. I really do feel terrible about how I behaved but I forgave myself and moved on. I THINK W did too. I just hope she wasn't pushed away too much by that display of the "old" me.
I think what happened was that I truly have become complacent and when the first big trigger came along (not really faced one in a couple weeks or more) I found out that I was on DB cruise control, that I was no longer trying as hard as I need to. I was no longer doing the work I needed to do and it showed very clearly over the past 48 hours.
Nothing personal monchichi, but I hope my W is not like you in that she has anotehr affair but I would love to try to help you.
Quote: I read about were usually man going astray hardly about women, you as a man please tell me how you feel?
Could you please clarify this? I don't quite understand what you are asking.
Quote: My H wants D, I know its the easy way out for both of us rather then to face the problem. GH, what is making you working hard on your marriage despite your wife's action. Please enlighten me from a man's point of view.
Well, I think my point of view, one I instantly adopted once I was able to get past the initial pain of the "bombs", is that I was CLEARLY responsible for some, if not more than my fair share of my marriage's problems. Once I decided that, I also decided that I needed help to address those issues. I immediatly went to the web. I found several sites with articles and message boards, posted to several and was dissapointed with the level of anger and "un-helpfullness" I found there. Then I found THIS site and subsequently, read DB and knew I had found the method that fit with what I already knew by then...I couldn't control my W, and I had a LOT of work to do on myself. DB was perfect for me because it gave me the tools to endure some of the pain and trials I needed to get past before I could really go to work on the task at hand.
Really, my point of view was that yes, my W was a b!tch for doing what she did but I was also an a$$ for much of my marriage and I knew that. I decided to pursue the course of action that would make ME a better man and I truly believed that if I could do that, my W would see it and decide to work on our M again...oh, and BTW, all the while the affair continued.
Quote: I am sure your W is also filled with guilt, remorse and confused. As a women's point of view she is also afraid that you may reject her one day or feel angry. But from what i read you are very patient and understanding. Women needs alot of attention and little sweet stuff, listen to her more you will know what she needs and give the right things.
You are really patient!
Thank you. I don't feel that way today (read my last monster post). Yes, I know W may feel those things and that's what I try to keep in mind most of the time. I just feel like giving her the time and space she asked for all those months ago has paid off and we are starting to get closer. It's really up to me to keep it up until she gets on board fully.
I WILL listen to her more and I WILL do better that I did this weekend.
Thank you for your support and I will try to do the same for you. Realize that most of all, YOU HAVE TO WANT to stop cheating and make your marriage work. That will be hard, much harder than just finding a new man, but I believe in the end, it can be MUCH better for all involved.
First, forgive yourself. Seems as you already have. What is done is done. You were under a tremendous amount of stress, and, yes, could have acted better. BUT, as you yourself mentioned, you DID act much better than you would have 1 year ago, so that's what's important. Seems like you did make a move to express yourself at times, that's good.
Don't get into the habit of walking on eggshells with yourself or your W. By that I mean, during this tenuous stage for LBS's, we tread carefully, afraid that any wrong move will bring about the big D. We orchestrate every move and word. Then, as we move into a stage of working on ourselves, we tread carefully with ourselves....any wrong move is proof to us that we're slipping, not really changing, not really trying.
Neither view is accurate. It's more like that you are trying, you are changing, and you ARE dealing with a VERY stressful personal situation (the A) all while acting like life is dandy. Keeping a job, being a friend and most importantly, being a dad. Sometimes you are human and let it get to you, it slips out. That's OK. The important thing is to handle it differently.
You've been doing wonderfully. You have been super-human kind to W about the A and her 'confused' stage. I think she can have a little empathy to understand how what she did would make anyone feel as if they were losing it. I'm sure she doesn't enjoy the detective in you, just like you sure don't enjoy having to BE the detective in your own M.
Empathy, patience and compassion. These things need to come from BOTH of you.
I have forgiven myself. I AM much better than a year ago.
I am trying REALLY hard not to walk on egg shells. My mantra, as if you couldn't tell, is "direct and honest". I want to BE that way all the time but it's tough.
Quote: Sometimes you are human and let it get to you, it slips out. That's OK. The important thing is to handle it differently.
Yep. I get this and try to understand that I will have slip-ups but I just hate them so much. I know I am wrong but as you say, it seems like one slip-up could cost me my marriage. Again, I KNOW that is wrong but it feels that way sometimes.
I think my W does have empathy for me but she just has a funny way of expressing it. When I asked her if she ever considered just giving me a hug sometimes when I seemed strssed, she said yes, but I don't think she really ever does because, well, because I don't know why.
We'll see. I am going to keep trying. It's all I can do.
Tomorrow I have made arrangments to be with my W to meet her lawyer in the DUI case. I have not been involved much to this point but she wants me to go to this meeting because we are reviewing the evidence to make a decision whether to fight the case of plead out no contest. This is a REALLY tough thing to figure out (anyone got advice?).
Anyway, sure to be a stressful night and day tomorrow. Will post when I can.
I am profoundly moved on a regular basis with what a wonderful husband you are. The constant introspection you are doing is so healthy, and so helpful to all who witness you and are also working on our own growth. I know my posts are still overly focused on my H's behavior instead of my own. I have more letting go to do, and more personal work and behavioral changes as well. I am making progress, but it is slow... So then I think, with all the tools I have, and such a slow process of change, H's pace (with no outside support that I know of) makes so much sense. I do my best to keep focused on my goals. You are one of my constant inspirations. I am glad you are beginning to get some consistent hugs smiles and other rewards for your generous and thoughtful behavior. I know sometimes it feels like this 
. So why wouldn't we want to just keep being better and better forever?