Quote: is she comfortable with you seeing her undressed to the degree (or close) that you did in the past?
Well, as I have posted in the past, my W has serious body issues and self esteem issues associated with her not liking how her body looks. SO, it's never really been something she's comfortable with and she often asks for privacy but the interesting thing is that I have noticed her changing in my proximity, not closing the door so fast, etc, lately. Now, when she sees me looking, or if she THINKS I am/was, she gives me a little "hey" but doesn't really rush to cover up as fast as before. I guess I didn't really notice that.
Quote: How about seeing YOU step out of the shower? Does she remark on how you smell - cologne, soap, anything?
Well, she doesn't seem to have any problem at all looking at ME getting out of the shower. I even call her on it playfully all the time. No, she never really comments on how I smell, but she does compliment me more on how I look.
Quote: I think RB has a point too - you aren't her best friend, you're her husband, and being a little playful/teasing can break the ice. People are so tense in these situations that you can both REALLY want to and still not - it's tough.
You guys are REALLY helping me out with this. I am a little nervous that the ladies have not backed you up, but what you are saying really does ring true. As far as teasing and being playful, there has been much more of that lately both from me (on purpose) AND from her. I guess through all this today, I realize that things are actually more different than I thought. Maybe I AM doing some of the right things and just need to keep it up.
Quote: In a more mild situation in the past, following a fight, how did you make up?
I would say, quite honestly, we never really "make up" after a fight. We both just go to our corners and eventually just "get over it". I suppose this is NOT very good in the grand scheme of things and has probably led to some resentment since that would mean a lot of things went unresolved in our R. Hmmmm, more food for thought.
If you talk to her, rather than demanding where she is and answers from her, I'd suggest that you just talk about yourself -- your perceptions, your feelings, your hopes, your frustrations.
Give. You might get something in return.
Alternatively, you could listen to the women here who have told you repeatedly to try taking charge of things. If I had felt sexually neglected for years the LAST thing I would feel like doing is coddling a guy's sexual ego to get him to step up to the plate.
Alternatively, you could even read PM before you decide what to do.
I realize the last two suggestions are likely to go nowhere. So, please, at least try the first. Talk about you and then listen to her.
OT, I keep hearing over and over about how I "need to take charge". I really wish I knew what that meant. I was raised in a time where I was CONSTANTLY drilled that NO MEANS NO, and I have embraced this my whole life. My W has CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY told me she is not ready for anything more than we are doing right now. If she is waiting for me to go against that direct communication and "pin her to the wall" and kiss her, then she is probably going to be waiting for a LONG time, and if my marriage hinges on my ability to do that when she is telling me she does not want it, then my marriage is in worse trouble than I think.
My confidence, my assertiveness, my decisiveness, both physically AND verbally have NEVER been higher and she notices. That said, the main reason I balk at your "take charge" suggestions when they cross the line she has clearly drawn in terms of her comfort, is because I don't consider it an issue of "taking charge" as much as disrespecting her feelings.
I GET where you're coming from in all this, I really do but it's just not in me right now to cross that line. Hell, she could be waiting for that but I just find it hard to believe that you OT, or really anyone else here is truly advocating that NOW I start to mind read when the stakes are this high? Wouldn't THIS be the part of the R, since it's been a problem in the past, that we talk MORE, and not assume anything?
I know I am just frustrated and for a couple different reasons. First, because my sitch seems to be moving slowly (but I am more ok with that after some of the posts today) and second because I THINK I am doing the right thing and then this "take charge" thing comes up again and I think maybe I am missing something.
OT, I am going today, without fail, to get that book if they have it at my B&N. I have been so busy lately but I will make time because my marriage is the most important thing to me and I can see that there is probably some VERY good info to be had. I thank you for having patience with me (almost...until today anyway, lol).
Quote: ..."need to take charge". I really wish I knew what that meant.
I get the same directions from people in my RL. I am as confused as you, GH, taking charge seems good in theory, but I feel she would kill me, especially right now. You are much further along on the reconciliation trail than I. I hope to move along on the reconciliation with patience, love, kindness and a huge dose of DBing.
Quote: I know I am just frustrated and for a couple different reasons. First, because my sitch seems to be moving slowly....
You are doing great. You and your sitch are truly an inspiration to those of us who have not had the great fortune to have ventured as for as you. Keep on keepin' on. You are an inspiration to me.
Quote: I am going today, without fail, to get that book if they have it at my B&N.
What is the title of that PM book?
You appear to have come a LOOONG way. Continue to be patient and work on yourself. I know that reading your posts help me a great deal. I truly value you insights. Take care, keep your chin up, keep fighting the good fight, brother.
Thank you HH. I know my sitch is 1000% better than it was and remembering that makes days like today much easier to cope with. Thanks for reminding me.
The book is Passionate Marriage by Schnarch. I am about 50 pages in and really don't have a great feel for where it's going but so far it's a really good read. Quite different from what I have been reading all along because it deals directly, and explicitly about sex and how it relates to marriage and vise versa. I will give more book reports as I get deeper into it. I know a LOT of people here swear by this book, and OT has told me like a million times to get it for my sitch so I have no doubt it will be VERY helpful.
Thank you for the title. And yes, please remember that you are a LOOOng way from where you started. You and your sitch are inspirations to me of what glorious possibilities await me if I allow them to come to fruition and don't muck them up by trying to force MY outcomes rather than facilitating God's.
BTW, would PM help someone who is currently celibate? LOL
Take care, my friend. And if you get a moment, venture over to my monotonous thread of hope. I long for a positive change in my sitch, but now I wait and hope.
Ok, well, what are the chances that I would have a breakthrough the very night I get the book OT has talked about so much...good I guess.
NO, not THAT breakthrough, but a step closer. W asked me to get something for her out of my car just now. I hugged her and as I did, I pulled her shirt up a bit so her stomach was exposed against mine (damn, now I sound like a romance novel). She weakly protested but then I said "Hey, you want me to do something for you..." She smiled and relaxed into me. Then, out of the blue, she says "I miss you." I said "I miss you too. You feel amazing right now." She said "So do you." and kissed my chest. I reached down and lifted her head up and kissed her. She didn't resist. It wasn't long or passionate by any stretch but it WAS a real kiss. She then walked away and we talked a bit more, most of it her telling me how she appreciated all that I am doing for her and my patience. I hugged her again, kissed her again and she said, again, out of the blue that she's been feeling much better over the past couple days and that she thinks she's finally dealing with "this stuff". She asked me to give her time but that she was starting to feel "right" again with me.
The real thing here is that she said she missed me in an unmistakably "sexual" way. Once again, she told me she was not quite ready to take the plunge but I think she is close.
Anyway, I will keep reading PM as fast as I can and hope for the best.
Quote: I hugged her and as I did, I pulled her shirt up a bit so her stomach was exposed against mine (damn, now I sound like a romance novel). She weakly protested but then I said "Hey, you want me to do something for you..." She smiled and relaxed into me. Then, out of the blue, she says "I miss you." I said "I miss you too. You feel amazing right now." She said "So do you." and kissed my chest. I reached down and lifted her head up and kissed her. She didn't resist. It wasn't long or passionate by any stretch but it WAS a real kiss.
Alright GH! Sounds like you're making inroads... Now back off and give her time/space.. Just go about your normal business like nothings happened. And keep us posted!
LOL 
