Here is a post courtesy of Smurf_SMR that I found really helpful in understanding the difference between distancing (detaching) and going dark:
Quote:
The technique of distancing:
It really is very complex and there is not only ONE way to do it. A lot of people confuse "distancing" with "going dark". They are not the same.
When you are detached you are naturally distancing. If you are needy you are pursuing.
Going dark is about NOT contacting them at all. Not talking to them at all. Avoiding them.
Distancing is being pleasant but busy, Too full of your own life to "notice" what your H is doing or not doing.
AN EXAMPLE:
Think of how you might approach a shy child. You don't approach them directly. You start doing something that gets their curiousity up and then you begin to notice (out of the corner of your eye) that the child has moved a little closer but, if you acknowledge them too soon, they run back to their secure spot. You continue on with what you are doing and pretend not to notice them at all. As they feel safer, they come a little closer. You don't want to spook them so you continue on with what you are doing but keep an eye on them serruptisiosly(SP). This can be a long process and works well with animals and MLCers too
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Quote: Question: is it ever helpful to let family members who are in the dark know about what is going on?
I think it can be in some circumstances. What Michele cautions against is basically tattle-telling. When the WAS drops the bomb, the LBS usually wants everyone to know what a scumbag he/she is ... and that usually backfires.
I think the decision to tell a family member depends very much on the person. If the family member is going to react with anger and rejection toward the SOB who would do such a thing, then it isn't helpful. If it's someone who can honestly and openly talk to the WAS without judging him, then I think it can be helpful.
PL, there are things that you need to say to your H ... that you can't say, or at least can't say and have it be beneficial to your sitch. I wonder if your H has confided in anyone about his A. If he hasn't talked about it with anyone but the OW, then it could really be a relief to him. Anyway, that's my opinion.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Hey PL. Thanks for stopping by on my thread with wonderful words of encouragement.
Just wanted to say hang in there...you're doing a terrific job. Remember, sometimes our actions don't really make a difference because the recipient is not 'ready.' So, it's the waiting game.
Hi RB, Well the issue of the importance of not judging is a pretty interesting inquiry for me. I think what my H is doing is wrong. I don't think it's OK. I think my H is a much better person than his behavior currently would lead one to believe. So I am judging (not accepting) of his behavior, but I believe in him and in his inherent goodness and worth. You said:
Quote: I think the decision to tell a family member depends very much on the person. If the family member is going to react with anger and rejection toward the SOB who would do such a thing, then it isn't helpful. If it's someone who can honestly and openly talk to the WAS without judging him, then I think it can be helpful.
I think my SIL for example, would still love my H, and believe in his goodness, but I believe she would also think as I do, that his current behavior is wrong. She is married to my H's brother, and she has already told me that she is concerned about the possibility of MLC for her H (my BIL), as she has seen several of her own brothers get divorced at the same stage of life. So... I am not sure if she condemned the A behavior, if this would be considered "judging" or just honest concern about undesirable/destructive behavior. Her parents have just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary (which we all attended together last year) so in her family, a long loving marriage is valued.
As for my motives, I have a few. 1) I want some of the family members to understand what has happened, so we can maintain our close relationships with honesty and so the family won't judge ME by thinking I kicked my good hard working H out for capricious reasons 2) I want others who care about him to to tell him that they are concerned for him, or that they think the A is wrong, if they feel moved to do so.
So your compassion for my H, in terms of having someone to talk to, was not the first thing I was thinking about. I was thinking about what I wanted. But you are right, I think that would help H very much to be able to talk more openly as he is really isolated right now; although on his own so far, he seems uninterested to initiate calling or talking to anyone about personal matters to any great degree. He has told a few local acquaintances that we are separated. He told one customer/friend (a retired psychologist who spent last 4th of July with our family) that he was having an A, and she said "Well you have a big mess on your hands, a lot to sort out and figure out now" and that was the whole conversation as he tells it. His relationships with his family members are pretty superficial (a lot of joking and playfulness goes on, but not a lot of depth - very very seldom do serious conversations occur between them and H).
So, no one that I would talk to or confide in would treat H like he is an SOB or react with anger. But they might not agree with his behavior. I don't have a clue if they would talk to him about it or not, it's entirely possible they would listen to me but never say a word to H.
For me, I don't like secrets especially "bad" ones. I like people included and related. H is more private in general than I am. I wouldn't want to make matters worse than they already are, if possible I would prefer taking steps that will make things better. So, in that context, do you all think sharing our sitch with family members is a problem or a good thing?
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
Hi Always, I do not know how you can say so much of value in such a short post. You are a gift to me.
Just knowing (and being reminded again and again when I forget) that H might not be ready now, but could be ready at some other point in the future, helps me. I remember what my H was like when I met him and married him. That is not who is currently here. I get afraid that the H that I knew is gone forever. He's been missing so long and it frightens me. But knowing there is the possibility that I will see him again, the man I married? That is worth waiting for. I waited so many years to find him. What's a few more, if I can find him again? Patience, and courage, must be the most important lessons of my life.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
In answer to your question about telling family & friends about your sitch, I told only a few, my sis,(not my dad),my children, & 2 close friends. Who H told & what he said damaged a few R I had with his friends & family.
There were times when I was so angry, I wanted to tell the world, but now I`m glad I didn`t. Also, if your H is in MLC, it could push him further into the tunnel & farther away from you. MLC`ers do not like to be talked about & if they find out, will become angry.
Quote: would accelerate some movement forward
You can`t force his hand, you can`t control him.
Most people don`t want to get involved in private matters of other`s. It`s like they`ll have to chose sides, it`s uncomfortable.
I think you have to be careful who you tell about the A and who you don't. One thing my C advised me was to always think ahead when I wanted to do anything. She would say, Pretend you are back together; how would he feel if you had gone with your emotions and told everyone? In other words, if you tell everyone he will most likely NOT like that and will remember it later. Or if he asks you not to tell anyone and you do, he will also remember that. Especially if that person starts hassling him. Frankly I think it stinks especially because you want to tell his whole family and half of yours. You have to make your own decision on this and just hope it goes allright.
Hmm...then I guess I did not go dark; I detached. But it was not easy. I could not have gone dark and never seen or spoke to him because it was not realistically possible. I'm not surprised he is going without his wedding ring. But I don't think it's anything to do with you. If you know what I mean.
The OW isn't even the problem. I don't really consider her a big part of the picture. He is temporarily fascinated with her but no matter what he thinks, she does not have his heart. She's a diversion from his problems and unhappiness in his life. What he needs to realize is that he needs to concentrate on him (and his marriage) to find himself and his happiness. You can't find it in fleeting moments 6,000 miles away.
It is so frustrating having to wait. I know the feeling well. Be good to yourself this next week. I always tried to find a silver lining. Your silver lining is she IS far away. My H's OW worked with him so they spent every day together and then worked together on the 4 to 12 shift.
I'll be thinking about you and hoping you are doing well.
H left today for his trip to Germany to visit OW. I am OK. H left two messages for me by phone since I saw him last Friday. Both were friendly ("hi honey") calls but strictly informative, and required no call back, so I didn't. Today's message was about the truck. Told me he was "leaving now", where the truck would be for me to pick up, good luck with my garage sale, told me when he was coming back and where to leave the truck so he could find it upon his return. Although I had offered to pick him up and return the truck at the same time, he obviously doesn't want to see me upon return. OK then. All for the best. I will gas it up, make sure it's clean, and leave it in the parking lot. Not sure yet if I will leave a card or gift for his b-day or not. Maybe just a thanks for the use of the truck. I dunno. Doing absolutely nothing and ignoring his b-day would be such weird behavior for me. But I especially can't see a reason not to acknowledge him for the use of the truck. Especially since H's primary LL is Words of Affirmation. Seems like I need to continue to acknowledge what does work, whenever I have an opportunity. Your thoughts?
I have been procrastinating on making my third pre-paid coaching call with Chuck the DB coach. Finally called today and they were already closed. I would like to have a plan of action in place before H comes back. So much has changed since my last coaching call a month ago. I was so hopeful that H was warming up to me then - Chuck's coaching was "keep up the good work, only make little changes, like saying "no" once in a while" were the recommendations; it seemed like we were gaining closeness. And look at it now. It looks like H is determined to kill off the M. Inside though, my little voice still says, "he loves you, even if he's not acting like it. He's testing you, because he doesn't believe he deserves your love." I am not giving up. I trust my instincts on this, even "in the face of no agreement". It's not over 'til the fat lady sings, right? and she ain't even around! I am in a size 8 now.
I had a remarkably good day, considering. The only thing that threw me off center today was H's phone message. I played it for D later, to see if she heard what I heard (a slightly passive agressive tone was what I thought was present). She said no, she didn't hear that at all, but she did hear forced upbeat friendliness and underneath she said he sounds guilty. She's probably right. I think I am just a little defensive/raw from the rejections of late. He probably does feel weird, telling me he's off to OW land. I hate to say this, but I'm thinking it so here it is: I hope they have a lousy time. I hope something goes wrong, I hope he sees something in her he doesn't like, I hope he has a miserable flight and wonders why he is doing this. Something awful would be nice I'd like to catch a break here. I know it's not really about her. So I wish she'd just get outta the picture.
Last night I went to assist at an event which supports the transformational work that H & I have been involved in for so many years. I listened to the part about integrity, and keeping your word, as the foundation for everything in life - the basis for infinite possibilities. I took responsibility for being a space where integrity is present for all people. I also made a commitment to accomplish a life-altering breakthrough in communcation with my H so that love, integrity and joy are present in our relationship. I am writing that here, so everyone will know that is what I am up to. That's the basis for all of this for me. So, I haven't taken any of their seminars in a while, and the next 10 week seminar is starting next week, and guess what, it's on relationships. OK, I'm signing up, let's see what show up. Should be fun. I am super happy about that. Being where I was last night, I saw alot of old friends I haven't seen in a while. People who know and love H and I. I have decided I will not hide out from them, it just doesn't work for me. No community could be more supportive to our well being. I am careful not to damage H with my words. But I have told some people we are separated, that I am concerned for H, and that I miss him. I can't manage it any other way. Two people wanted to call H - maybe they will. He has dissappeared off the face of the planet and they all miss him too. We have for 6 years, always showed up at these things together. So it was noticed that I was there and he was missing. This time, he lied to them and bowed out. If you are catholic, this is the equivalent of lying to a priest (or if you are married, lying to your spouse ). But also so unlike my H, the man I married, who was committed to integrity in a profoundly honorable way. I pray he will wake up and realize what is happening. When I can get my ego and hurt feelings out of the way, I am present to how much I love my H and wish only for his happiness and well being. I just don't believe he is on the road to happiness right now. And sometimes I worry for his health and mental well being. I have read about mid life depression in men. We shall see. I do not see what else there is to do right now. I have let go of the thin little kite string I was holding, that was attached to H. I am prepared to walk away if that is how this has to go. But I still believe in my H, and his inherent goodness, actually his greatness. He could choose to leave me with integrity and I could handle that. But not this way. I will never believe this is "him". And I believe in and value our community. When we got married, those present at our ceremony were asked to take vows also - promises to support our M should we ever need it. Well, I am thinking we need it now, H agreed to that when we married just like I did. We made that ceremony together. I am widening the circle in our crisis. I am calling on our community to hold our marriage. This does not necessarily mean that anything will be said to H. It just means some people who love us will be holding the space in their hearts for our marriage too. I believe this will make a difference. I wonder what will happen now.
Thanks everyone for your continuing words of encouragement. I am so blessed to have you all in my life. I am also blessed with good friends and a loving family, right here. Today, I took a long walk on the beach with my D and the doggie. Beautiful sunset.
This weekend, we will have a big garage sale. I have been overwhelmed with all of this stuff that came home from D's house, and also on top of what has accumulated over the years. The garage is full (FULL). Desks, bookcases, TV's, outta here. I need a simpler life. I am hoping for enough money out of it to treat myself to something I want, like a new digital camera or an ipod. Replacing the big things with little, useful things. We shall see. Either way, I'm loading the truck and donating the rest to charity at the end of the day. It's not going back in there. I want my life back. Something simpler, something that honors me. Something uncluttered and pure. To honor my journey.
I'll keep you posted.
PositivelyListening ************************************** When one door of happiness closes, another one opens; but often we look so long at the closed door that we do not see the one which has been opened for us. - Helen Keller
I too loved to read that post from you. It seems like you've found a center and are comfortable, happy living from it. VERY good for you.
Quote: I am hoping for enough money out of it to treat myself to something I want, like a new digital camera or an ipod.
Those are the same two things my W bought with our last garage sale proceeds, lol. The iPod really changed both of our lives as much as a gadget could. Neither of us could think of why we NEEDED one, but now neither of us would be cought without ours, lol.
Keep smiling, get that advice from Chuck and keep posting. I don't really know what to say about a "plan" for you when he returns. Right now you suffer from sounding too good, lol. I don't know what to add that will help.
I'd like to catch a break here. I know it's not really about her. So I wish she'd just get outta the picture.
). But also so unlike my H, the man I married, who was committed to integrity in a profoundly honorable way. I pray he will wake up and realize what is happening. When I can get my ego and hurt feelings out of the way, I am present to how much I love my H and wish only for his happiness and well being. I just don't believe he is on the road to happiness right now. And sometimes I worry for his health and mental well being. I have read about mid life depression in men. We shall see. I do not see what else there is to do right now. I have let go of the thin little kite string I was holding, that was attached to H. I am prepared to walk away if that is how this has to go. But I still believe in my H, and his inherent goodness, actually his greatness. He could choose to leave me with integrity and I could handle that. But not this way. I will never believe this is "him". And I believe in and value our community. When we got married, those present at our ceremony were asked to take vows also - promises to support our M should we ever need it. Well, I am thinking we need it now, H agreed to that when we married just like I did. We made that ceremony together. I am widening the circle in our crisis. I am calling on our community to hold our marriage. This does not necessarily mean that anything will be said to H. It just means some people who love us will be holding the space in their hearts for our marriage too. I believe this will make a difference. I wonder what will happen now.
