Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Positively new thread - how do you deal with this?

Your H is fixated on OW right now. The reason he's so tired all the time is he is being pulled in two directions and added to his guilt and sadness, it is overwhelming. He is probably doing the best he can do at this time.

Unfortunately, it's not helping YOU. You can't DB all the time; your reaction to his not coming for dinner is normal! You are human. There's no one here who wouldn't be disappointed and angry over it. Maybe the reality of the situation is starting to set in. Maybe underneath you thought with time and change he would see you have done many positive things and come back. But it isn't happening. Also unfortunately affairs don't tend to be short term. Their affair won't last; but are you willing to wait? And even if you wait, will he still come back?

It sucks. Do good things for yourself. I think it may be a good idea to go dark for awhile. I think you need to for you, if for no other reason.

I know EXACTLY how you feel about your H and marriage. I went through the exact same thing. And I feel the same.

Stay strong, PL!!

LH

Hello lucyhelen and all,

Well, I guess a good evening of dissapointment and a cry fest are really good for me, in terms of reevaluating my goals and priorities and releasing pent up emotions/frustrations etc. Also, I went to church this morning, and got infused with a good dose of PMA and hope there. I had not been going for a long while except for major holidays, and since my return 2 months ago, I have stayed somewhat invisible, partly due to feeling a bit emotionally "raw". I have been hanging out in the bookstore, savoring every moment of the sermon, but not doing much socializing (which is different for me, usually I am a major extrovert). However, today I ran into an old acquaintance/friend, who had also taken a long break from church, and was now returning at the request of her elderly mother, so they are going together and she's charged up about it too and was really happy to see me. She immediately circulated me to three more people and then three complete strangers also came up to me and wanted to know if I was new etc. and introduced themselves to me. Support is coming out of the woodwork, and my community is enlarging once again to enfold me in love. I am grateful.

I prayed and pondered on my situation with my H. lucyhelen, you said

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He is probably doing the best he can do at this time.

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and I thought about that. I am quite sure that is true. What's it like to be in his shoes right now? Then I reviewed my ultimate desire for reconciliation and my spiritual commitment to unconditional love. Then I also re-read a little bit from one of my favorites, "Your Husband's Mid-life Crisis" by Sally Conway.

After a lovely lunch in my garden (salmon on salad - there's lots of salmon left ) and all of this good food for thought, I called H and apologized for being impatient with him last night. I told him I was dissapointed that he didn't come over, but I was sorry that I was "short" with him. In addition to looking forward to being with him and connecting, I told him I had wanted to make his life better too, and was having trouble figuring out what would be helpful to him while he is so busy at work and so tired. I appreciated how hard he is working. (H's primary LL are Words of Affirmation and Acts of Service). This was a very successful conversation. I think he expected me to call him mad and/or complaining which I did not do, and perhaps he would have avoided calling me for days. (Unlike the old me - always before H complained that he was the one who had to apologize after an argument, and I never did - he usually felt wrong). I kept it short, but H kept telling me I had nothing to apologize for; still I know it helped. H then asked a few ?'s about how D is doing and about our finances and I gave him the scoop on D and told him the finances convo needed to be more extensive when we have more time to look at and discuss the details. I will not be calling again until/unless he calls. But I am committed to leaving the "space" between us clean and clear, and continuing to be a person he can speak to, who will take responsibility for my part of our interactions. I believe I accomplished that, and he is left feeling as empowered as possible too. It is unimportant to me whether H can reciprocate doing that himself right now or not - mostly I do not feel that he can do that currently, nor do I expect it. It's just not OK with me to leave "muck" in the space when I can do something about it, so now all is clear.

Tonight our church is having an internationally renowned speaker providing a tranformational workshop on being free of the negative baggage of fear, anger and unworthiness - creating an approach to life as a joyous adventure. If I enjoy it tonight, there is another one tomorrow night on taking charge of the creative process of life, based on my priorities. Invited a GF to go, should be fun. The speaker signed a copy his book for me today, and wrote a personal message to me about light and love emanating from my eyes and what a joy that was to see. That was really nice, I will cherish that.

Good progress from last night to today. Thanks, y'all for sticking with me as I continue to work towards my center and truth in the face of adversity

I forgot to mention, the one thing H said I could do to help him right now: H wants a better TV for his rented room (he was supplied with one there, but the visuals are not right - it is blurry). No problem, we have 3 in the garage all in good working condition, plus 2 in the house and I'm hardly watching TV at all any more. I try not to cringe, he seems so low. God bless him, I guess there are worse forms of self-medicating.

There's a part of me that doesn't want him to get too comfortable there... so he'll miss home? But he's perfectly capable of buying a TV and it seems he'd rather not invest too much in being there so I guess that's better than some of the alternative scenarios?

PL,

Sorry I didn't check in with you through all that. I think you did just fine and as we all usually figure out, one slip-up does NOT ruin the whole deal. I know you will make the most of all this and be just fine in the end. You have a GREAT attitude and approach. Just believe in yourself.

GH

Hi GH, Thanks so much for checking in with me now! It always makes me happy and grateful to hear from you. I really appreciate your caring support and great insights. It is interesting you would say this to me right now

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Just believe in yourself

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as I have been realizing exactly that as my true task at hand, over the last couple of days. I have been reading and listening and trying to find the answer to my "problem" from all of these external sources. I have come to realize clearly at a whole other level that what there is to do now, is only to get very clear on what I believe, what my goals are in support of those beliefs, the actions I am going to take in support of my beliefs, and then the prayers/affirmations/visualizations I need to have in place to support what I know to be true. Create my solutions. I can do that. There are no guarantees from the outside - even Michelle says that. My answers need to come from within, and my trusting myself and my path. I think I need to take my "PMA" to another level. I need to listen to myself, believe in myself (even more than all of the experts, even Michelle) and base my actions upon trusting myself.

I am going to do a little personal "research project" and dig into this a little deeper. I think I have adopted some limiting belliefs about my sitch, my H, myself. I think somewhere along the way I lost track of what I truly believe, I have been confused too, and have been living with a lot of chatter in my head from the crisis mode and all of the conflicting well-meaning information from the experts, ending up in "what should I do, what's the right thing to do?" questioning mode, questioning myself, and frustrated when one action or another didn't "work" to fix everything. I have enough information, and there will always be more to get. I need to integrate, and clear my own path. I am going to get quieter still, and listen to my own inner voice a little more profoundly than ever. I know the answers for my life are here inside of me. I just need to trust that.

I'll keep you posted.

Hi PL,

I too, am sorry that I was not available during your time of "crisis", although in hindsight I would say that you handled things extremely well. As usual, the wise GH has given you great counsel..."believe in yourself." Such a small phrase, but something that I think all of us LBS' lose sight of in the process. I myself have been guilty of this countless times and I am truly on that journey of believing in myself rather than trying to manipulate a situation over which I have no control.

PL, you definitely can do this. You have such a great positive mental attitude and truly, you have so many great qualities. I am truly sorry that your H cannot look through the fog of his issues to see this, but I think in time he really will. In the meantime, let that wonderful person inside of you come and enjoy the walks on the beach, the quiet moments of solitude.

Again, be as you are, believe in yourself. No one can ever fault you for that. I hope today brings a brighter day for you.

All the best,

Rob

And, as the great and very intelligent William Shakespeare wrote, "THIS ABOVE ALL--to thine own self be true."

I have tried to live by this for years and I cannot count the times it has helped me to make a decision I would have otherwise struggled with. You are the only one who is with you your whole life so you need to do what works for YOU.

And the real meaning to me is the first part of the quote: This above all. So true!

Hang tough, PL!

Lucy

WARNING - LONG POST AHEAD - THANKS MY PATIENT FRIENDS

H & I had a "date" tonight. He took me out to sushi (his choice but my favorite, not his) and Prarie Home Companion (Garrison Keillor is a real favorite for both of us, with a lot of memories including romantic memories attached- best date night ever when he surprised me with live tickets way back when). We had also said that I would bring him up to date on our financial sitch, and would discuss it. I also have been mulling over for days if I wanted to bring up anything related to our R as it is all very intertwined for me at this point. I didn't post here what I was thinking about doing in advance, as I had decided I was going to go with what I felt was the right thing to do, so decided not to solicit input. I am feeling bolder and stronger and more confident this week. Taking the bull by the horns. It's my life.

So, H told me at dinner that he is going back to Germany to see OW for his birthday this month. Although this is really not a "surprise" since I have been suspecting since April that he was thinking about and planning to do that in June, it is now official. H will spend his birthday in Germany with OW. Last year for his birthday, we had an amazing weekend together in a little CA coastal town, with side-by-side massages, walks along the shore, romantic dinners out and ML often. So this is hard, to think he is spending a birthday, a special occasion forever in our memory banks, this way. On top of that, he is going to see the world cup soccer games. When H and I met, I was playing soccer on three teams (women's, indoor, and co-ed). H had not played much in his life, and I got him involved in playing on the co-ed team with me, and we did that for several years until about 2 years ago when I injured my back (and slowly morphed out of shape in the months turned into years that followed.) I've mentioned many times how fun it would be to go to see the games live. So, knowing H is going to Germany to see the world cup games with OW on his birthday stings a little much, no matter how well prepared I was for the fact it was likely gonna happen that he would be with her soon. And he says, "Do you want me to bring you back a t-shirt?" Gotta love him, you know? Good DBer that I am, I put on my best cheery demeanor, and said, "Yah honey, I would love that."

Getting the news he was going affected me. I had been in such a good mood, all cheery and smiley and all. First time with H in two weeks. But my stomach turned over and I lost my appetite at dinner and I wasn't sure I would be able to continue the evening and go to the movie and all that. I thought I might have to run out to the rest room. It wasn't pretty for a minute there. But none of that happened, although I was certainly quiet and had to look away for a while.

We had already talked about the finances: how the sale of D's house had paid off the 2nd mortgage on this house, but that we were in the hole about $8000 for our taxes plus none of the promised $18,000 to D or any money for taxes which might be hefty. Looks like no chance of a new car right now for me either (I drive an '87 which is showing the wear now) but at this very moment we have no debt other than the mortgage and you know that is good and a big improvement over 3 years ago, so hey.

So sometime after the Germany trip revelation, and after I pulled myself back together, (although I honestly can't remember the sequence of all this as it took a little while) I told H that I thought he might be surprised to hear this from me, considering what he had just told me, but that I wanted him to come home (to live). I told him that the communication was getting difficult for me due to the time and distance apart, and that I wanted him home where we would have a chance to talk more. I told him that I realized how compelling his relationship with the OW was (to which he said skeptically "Oh, really?" and I said "Really, I think I do understand"). (Granted, I think it is a toxic addiction, but I didn't say that). But I said that I believed that he still did not know what was going to happen with that relationship, and how it was going to turn out. So I told him I would like him to come home, perhaps for a six months trial, and we could decide at the end of six months if we wanted to extend it or end it, but at least in the interim we would have a chance to sort some things out and come to a better understanding. I told him if he didn't want to come home, that he needed to be able to tell the truth to his mom and dad and brother and SIL about what he is doing, and why he wouldn't come home when I wanted him to, because I had held his secret as he wanted me to and it wasn't right. I told him that I wanted him to be happy, and that I cared about him deeply, and that I was willing to accept what ever directon he needed to go, but that until that was clear, I wanted him to come home. He actually seemed open and receptive to this conversation, said that he would like to consider it and let me know. And I said great, that's what I was asking. He looked at me for a long time after that, and I said "What?" and he said "I never know what to say when you ask me that" and then he said "why don't you ask me something specific?" and I finally said "Do you ever think about coming home?" and he said, "Yes sometimes I do. I DO think about that sometimes" in a rather warm and friendly tone. And I said "OK then" and smiled and dropped it.

I realize this conversation was a big risk. However, I got the distinct impression that H has been a little irritated at my "unavailability" of late (hadn't seen him for two weeks, but you know he missed our "date" last Saturday night so I have been VERY busy GAL without him since then. So my instincts are telling me that he somehow needed reassurance from me. Weird I know, considering that he just told me he is leaving to visit OW. But what about a sitch like this isn't weird? I have been reading more about MLC. Hardest part about MLC is it is so easy to identify the symptoms, but so hard to manage or to know what to do about it! Anyway, with my H when I give him reassurance, he seems to do better than when I am aloof or mysterious or busy. I GAL for me but H is never "interested" if I do that, he acts like "I'll show you, I'll be less available that you". But when I am loving and soft and available, he comes around. Apparently OW is like that, that was one of the things he liked about her. Although that is weird too, as she isn't really available in any way, being married and half way around the world 99% of the time and all. But during parts of our M I wasn't enough of that - too business like and busy and unavailable at times. You know my H can be busy, but he needs me to be available. He admired my success, but I don't think he really liked it... That's just how that is. And the other thing is, if he isn't interested to come home, then I'm ready to redecorate and grieve and heal, knowing that I will never pursue a divorce myself but will be ready to do the "after the last resort technique" (or Harley's Plan B) rather than continue on in indefinite limbo for much longer. My girls are suffereing too. I just need to see some movement, some interest, some effort, some steps in my direction again, something.

The next part of our convo was a little tougher. Back to the finances, I said that even though his income contributions to our household seemed like a neccesity to pay the taxes, bills, etc. where we have commitments, that I remembered that he had often felt in relationships in his past that women only wanted him for what he could "do" rather than truly loving him. So I told him that even though I was scared about what might happen, that it wasn't OK with me to "use" him for his "assets". That I cared about him deeply and that's what matters to me most. But also that as long as we were married, I felt it was appropriate for him to continue to pay what he had always paid into the household budget, without changing that amount. He seemed to understand that. Then, I said that I felt that his trips to Germany to see OW should not be funded by our shared financial assets. Well that topic got him going with an edge. H talked about how he had always been fair about paying towards the family etc. and that he never had any personal money of his own. No discretionary $$ for his private use. That "everybody" always says how they want him to be happy, and then when he wants to do something that will make him happy, that no one wants him to do it. So I said, "I'm not saying that, and I would never try to tell you what to do. It's just that we have always made decisions about the finances (and how we would spend our money) together, and we have always agreed on where the money would go. And I disagree with you about this. But it is your decision." This seemed to help. He said he was always trying to do the right thing for everyone, and I said I know that, and if it didn't matter to him about doing the right thing, then he wouldn't have reacted so much when I brought it up. He smiled and chuckled about that. So we are still on the same wavelength, somehow, in our communication and understanding, even when they are "hot topics".

There were other interesting moments in the evening too. He told me he was sorry I cried at dinner, and I said "Did I cry?" and he said "No, but you wanted to, and you did a good job of holding it back. I'm sorry that what I am doing is causing you to be unhappy." That was interesting. Throughout the evening, he held my hand and hugged me at times, however avoided kissing me until the end of the evening. I ran in the house to get some papers for him, he got out of the truck and met me at the garage entry and apologized for "all this" which I think was a reference to our overflowing garage but who knows? maybe there was more to it. Then he proceeeded to give me a new key to his shop (he changed the locks) which in my mind is a big deal full of continuing trust, and then he said I was his savior if he was ever locked out. And I said he was my savior also. And big deep hug going on here while we were each saying this. Then he said, "Don't worry honey, everything is going to be alright" big hug continuing, then brief kiss on the lips, which seemed to embarrass him a bit, then walking to the truck he gave me 4 double takes before leaving, and then bye bye H.

What to make of all this? Well I took some risks, perhaps I will be slam dunked soon. Not sure, but I needed to know and to proceed, for my own sake. Positives occurring: H's hard earned $$ are still going to come into the household, H still trusts me with the key to the shop, H told me the truth about his trip to OW the day after he booked it, as well as what they will be doing and how long he will be gone. Hate the content, but truth is good. He was very interested in all the stories about the D's (who are both here this weekend) and seems genuinely interested in remaining a part of the family which has got to be quite a dilemma for him as they are kind of tired of it all. I did not tell him that both D's are wearing thin on the indecisiveness. I did not want to add that pressure.

I am of course curious now that I've done what I've done, and said what I've said, and heard what I've heard, to hear what you all think about it. I tried not to pressure, but I did express what I wanted. It's been a long time since I've done that, and I felt I had to for me. I suppose the proof will be in the pudding. If I don't hear from H or if he is cold, aloof or hostile again, I will know it didn't land well. I wonder if/when H will mention whether he will want to return home or not - before OW trip or after? Predictions, anyone? I think it is possible that H may have more guilt than love for me at this point. Can guilt ever be good? I am not trying to make him feel guilty. But I do think he looks at me, and I look pretty and sweet and loving and understanding and forgiving and pretty darned irrisistable (even though he still manages to resist me) and I think he feels guilty a fair amount.

I did come home and have a good cry. I did not have a bad evening. I have come to realize it is just what I do, helps me decompress. I know I still have disappointments and hurts. Of course I would rather that H dump OW, never see her or talk to her again, and tell me how much he loves me and wants to come home forever and a day. But lest I live in fantasy instead of reality, I have come to accept what is so and what I want as two separate things. I still want it to work out with my H, and for all of those things to happen. Maybe they will and maybe something else will happen instead. Meanwhile I think I cry mostly because it feels better when I do and after, and because I am not done with my H and some of this is just hard.

However, right now, I feel calm serene and satisfied that I told the truth, connected with H, got treated out to dinner and a movie, and had a pleasant interchange. Could be worse, right?

PL, I think you "did" fine, as it's really impossible to know what it best in our sitches. Your offer to him to move back in might have seemed needy, but it doesn't sound as though you presented it that way -- and it is a 180, at least. It will be interesting to see if he takes the offer, or what happens with his family if he does not.

One other item from last night's rendezvous (things keep popping up in my head). After H had informed me he was going back to Germany, he said, "I guess you will notice I am not wearing my wedding ring". I hadn't noticed actually, but it surely was uncomfortable to look at his hand at that moment and see it missing, after 6 years he has never taken it off, and especially after he had announced his plans to visit OW once again. He quickly explained that it had gotten "broken" while working and I made a soft but snide comment "that's convenient" and he said "I thought you might say something like that" and then proceeded to explain in great detail how it was at the jeweler's being repaired, that he had smashed it under a big board while working, and could barely get it off as it was an elipse, so it was at the jeweler's getting repaired but the head jeweler was out of town and they couldn't fix it until he returned as they didn't want to break it, etc. etc. So I told him I was glad he was getting it repaired and I was glad he wasn't hurt. I suppose this feels significant to me somehow, that he hasn't let go of the marriage yet, and that it was so important for him to tell me all of the details about the whereabouts of the ring.

I'm not sure what all these little things mean. It seems as if H is trying very hard to keep the door ajar to our M, appearances up etc. Yet his tenacious hold on his R with OW is fierce. I wonder how long one can go on with a foot in two different worlds? I guess in H's case, at least as long as the MLC lasts? Oh impatience speaking, I wish I could do something to speed his process along...

Meanwhile, I will try to focus on the positives, even if they are halfs of whole things. He still wants to wear the ring, and wants me to know he wants to wear the ring. I used to suffer over the fact that he probably wore it in bed with her. But seeing him without it made me very happy that he cared to put it back on, and that he continues to wear this symbol of our commitment even into his world with her. I realize none of this "should" matter to me right now as there are bigger things to concern me, but I am a sentimental person, and it all does matter to me. I worry and hope I will be able to let go of the past if this A is ever in the past and we are rebuilding. That will be the hardest thing, I can already see that it must be VERY difficult for a reconciling LBS to forgive and release the past hurts that were inflicted. There are so many, and they are so small but still so awful and additive. Coming from a man who used to be quite sensitive to small and romantic and sentimental things, and who now seems oblivious to the mixed and confusing and sometimes even cruel messages he currently sends. These affronts to the romantic hopes and dreams, which I believe will hurt both of us very much in the memories to come. And the task is only to forgive and forgive and forgive. And do my best to focus on the positive things wherever I can find them.