You don't give much to go on. Like the things you have tried. How she reacts to you in your daily like. Conversations would help us out to try and see where she is coming from. But mostly things you have tried to do to turn this situation around. You never comment much on that. So based on so little to go and all I really know is that your wife avoids sex to no ends with you.
Well, maybe she doesn't enjoy sex with you. Perhaps you can't get her to orgasm. Maybe she is just not attracted. So she fills her life with other voids to try to make up for it. Maybe she is feeling like she will never have a sexual partner she can click with.
I understand perfectly. I guess it must be the closet masochist in me that keeps biting at the bait. I keep thinking that one of these days someone might pose a question that actually gets through the shell. Sort of like playing the lottery….
Like Brian says she just doesn't like it. It would irritate the crap out of me if my H fondled my breasts for no reason, the breast is highly errogenous, you might as well be saying fondling her clit is non-sexual.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I have come out of lurking, I couldn't resist this one.
I myself do not like my breasts being touched unless I am in the mood. Moreso since I had children. I have an automatic reaction of pushing his hands away if I'm not in the mood. He needs my 'permission' to touch them. Feeling constantly under pressure to have sex only makes it worse. You feel like you need to fight for your right to control your own body.
I don't understand how you can think that touching someone's breasts is not sexual. If your wife touched your dick you say you would think you'd died and gone to heaven. Would you class that as a non-sexual act? Methinks you'd be hoping for a good old roll in the hay.
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Hmmm....my first inclination would be to reply along the lines of Hap, please don't fondle my breasts unless you do intend something sexual. I have no inclination to respond like Sparkless though I understand what she is saying. However, upon further consideration I do think my reaction to having my breasts touched would vary depending upon context and my perceived intent of the touchee. The reason I say this is that I don't find a breast exam by my gynecologist to be at all erotic and I didn't find a little hand patting my breast while I breastfed at all erotic. So I suppose if I wasn't feeling particularly sex starved and my H were to say "I would like to give you a non-erotic breast massage." I could experience the touch in a more sensual rather than sexual way. So, CeMar, I would say that lack of communication is the problem because, frankly, I can't imagine you saying that to your wife anymore than I can imagine my H saying it to me.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
You’ve posed a question, you’ve got a lot of feedback. So what is your take on all this. Will you follow your usual pattern of disappearing into lurkdom only to post a similar thread in a few weeks? Why don’t you give some feedback to what people have said here?
I’d like to hold your feet to the fire. You started this thread, not continue the conversation. How do you respond to he ladies?
Quote: Why are certain areas of the body off-limits until you are in just the right mood?
For example, if I get into bed at night and reach over and caress the wife and start massaging her legs and back, and slowly work my way up the body, and let my hand graze her breasts, I darn near get my arm cuttoff, like I did something horrible. I don't understand this reaction.
Cemar, do you acknowledge that people have wildly varying preferences in regards to absolutely everything involving humans?
And everyone here could give you an answer, and it is very possible that not a single one of them would be factual for your wife.
Why don't you go right to the horse's mouth?
"Wife, Many times when I touch you, you react in a way that lets me know you don't like it. What don't you like about it?"
Quote:
Why would a person NOT like to have their body touched. H#ll, if my wife just hopped into bed and grabbed my d#ck, I would think I had died and gone to heaven. So the attention I crave to have done to me she hates. This makes absoalutely no sense to me. And its not like I grab her parts all the time, it happens far less then once a week. Why does it take arrousal before I can touch the forbidden areas without risk of losing limbs?
Like I said, this reaction is the OPPOSITE of what I would do, so it is tough to understand.
You aren't her. She isn't you.
When NOP and I were deep into our more unhappy times, I didn't want him touching me because I didn't really like him at the time. I loved him, but I didn't like him.
Higher libido folks have the ability to look past that because they have enough sexual desire to do so. Lower drive people don't have the same desire to help them push through their resentments, hurts, anger, whatever onto sex.
You have said here that you don't love your wife and you may have said that you don't like her. But your sexual drive is high enough that you can make love to her in a generous way with someone that you don't like and would probably leave if your conscience would allow.
So, maybe your wife just doesn't like you very much.
Then again, maybe she likes you alright, but doesn't respect you. You've hinted around before that financial stability is a biggie for her and that it was something with which you might not have been very successful.
You look at her and see someone you can enjoy having sex with. Maybe she looks at you and sees a depressive man who seems to resent the children and who has made some bad financial choices and can't seem to express himself verbally.
I don't know if any of the above is true.
I also don't understand why you don't understand that people have different preferences/desires.
I like blue cheese, NOP would blow chunks if he inadvertantly found it on a salad. He loves mushrooms, I despise them.
The fact is that you have never given us enough information about how the two of you go about your day, or of any *specific* instances, or of any conversations. You act here as I invision you acting at home.
Do you have conversations? From how you have represented yourself here, this is how I view you. A verbally silent man who resentfully goes through his day with no interaction of any sort with his wife. Who, on occasion, explodes with physical desire and who then tries to physically express that desire with a woman who hasn't shared 50 words with him the whole day.
Why don't you share a conversation, an argument, an area of ongoing disagreement that gets verbalized - something? You know someone here might have some insight into what can happen to reach your wife, but we'll never know because the only way you will interact with us is to randomly explode with a
"Why does the LD woman xyz? I would love xyz, but my wife doesn't. I just don't understand."
I would hazard a guess that your conversational difficulties are very similar when interacting with your wife. Silence, frustrated outbursts, avoid a response, rinse and repeat.
When are you going to try something different JUST WITH US?
Maybe she is just not attracted. So she fills her life with other voids to try to make up for it. 
