I really don’t understand why you think I have not committed to the relationship because I said exactly that to her and the counselor on MANY occasions. What she wants is a share in property that my parents gave me as a gift. As such it is not community property but personal property. She wants this because she says it will make her feel like she has extracted some degree of vengeance which will release her anger. I do not buy that at all because I think her anger comes from elsewhere.
The apology thing is really not that big of a deal, and I did apologize. I did not unconditionally apologize for her part in the matter and I will not do so either. She has too much history of putting blame on me for her faults. This is a boundary issue and I will not continue to let her walk over me in this way. Again, I did apologize for my part.
LFL,
I did disarm my attorney. I unsuited the divorce case, dropped all charges and the restraining order. You probably get zero sense of love between us because we never really loved each other to begin with. She got pregnant, we got married. If I had my preference I would never have married her. But I did and now I’ve got to make the best of it.
I don’t see how you think I am screwing her over financially. How does it harm her if my parents give me a gift? It doesn’t. She wants half, just because. No other reason. She never got a dime from her parents and so has nothing to share with me. I’m sure she feels a lot of jealousy. She’s had a hard life, but it’s not my fault and its not my problem. She thinks she has some entitlement my property because of the years she spent as a housewife raising the kids. Well, she gets half of all the community property. I have no obligation or reason to give her half of my parent’s gift. If I do it is out of goodwill only.
You seem to have the cart before the horse. Much of our trouble in working toward intimacy does not come from the power struggles, the power struggles come from the fear of intimacy. As soon as we can both feel some security and level of intimacy, the power struggles will go away. Actually, they have for the most part gone away. Since she is now working, she has her own sense of accomplishment. She keeps ALL her money and does not pay for anything, which is fine with me. I pay for all the household expenses, kids expenses, etc. So the number of things to fight over for control has dropped dramatically. Now we are coming to the heart of the matter and that is intimacy and vulnerability. Everything up to this point has been window dressing. That is why I think you and others see such huge problems over control and I do not. Control is not the core issue (though an imbalance of control in the past caused serious problems).
As for my own FOO, go back and read some of my original posts. Its all in there.
The approach I have been working on has produced significant results recently. I think we are on the verge of putting a lot of problems behind us. I am convinced that not placing these hard boundaries, not setting consequences for her behavior, not reestablishing a balance in control of the kids, the finances, and the intimidation would have left us as stuck today as we were a few years ago. Ladies, she is not the rationale, logical person you would like to believe (at least she wasn’t, she is more balanced now). If you need an analogy, think more in terms of Mrs. Hairdog.
You will probably shoot me down on this but I have a theory as to why you W may want some stake in the property....it's you handing some trust over to her by handing a portion of that property to her in paper. It's you showing some faith in the two of you two, symbolically...to me anyway.
I guess in a way I can actually see how you deeding a portion (or whatever it is she wishes) over to her as truly putting a stake in your marriage and sharing with her. As attached as you are to the property (and I do understand that) it's as if you would be saying.....I'm here for the duration and I'm willing to share everything that's important to me....with you. I'm not sure I buy the vengeance thing (even if that's what she said)....but I can certainly see how if you were to give on this it would ease the anger on her part regardless....once again, it's a trust thing.
That's just my observation on this one though. Once again I feel you'll probably shoot me down on it.
I don’t see how you think I am screwing her over financially. How does it harm her if my parents give me a gift? It doesn’t. She wants half, just because. I didn't mean to imply you were screwing her over, just making the point that my H could have tried to screw me over if he wanted to be a jerk about it. But he didn't. However, about the "my property" issue, I think GEL is on to something with her post. Less then a year before H and I separated, he received a $20,000 inheritence from an uncle. We spent the entire amount on a larger car for me which I desperately needed. I would have been insulted if he said that was HIS money. But that's me. I’m sure she feels a lot of jealousy. She’s had a hard life, but it’s not my fault and its not my problem. She thinks she has some entitlement my property because of the years she spent as a housewife raising the kids. Well, she gets half of all the community property. I have no obligation or reason to give her half of my parent’s gift. That attitude sucks. You sound like someone who is already in the process of going through a bitter D, not someone who really wants to make the M better. You seem to have the cart before the horse. Much of our trouble in working toward intimacy does not come from the power struggles, the power struggles come from the fear of intimacy. As soon as we can both feel some security and level of intimacy, the power struggles will go away. Actually, they have for the most part gone away. That's a joke right? Sorry for the sarcasm but you are deluding yourself with this mentality. Don't you see how the power struggles and intimacy struggles are Interrelated? You can't just say the fear of intimacy is Causing the power struggles. And for sake of argument, if they are, how are you possibly expecting to get rid of the fear of intimacy if you still hold up such walls to each other? Money wise or not. Now we are coming to the heart of the matter and that is intimacy and vulnerability. I just don't see your contribution to this goal.
I really don’t have a problem sharing the property and I told her I would be happy to do so. It amounts to putting the van title in joint names and designating the down payment for the house that my parents gave me years ago as community property. If we stay married, then what’s the difference, right? But why should I do this if she really has plans to grab as much as she can and get divorced? She didn’t directly say that she was not doing this (but she did admit it was her intention at one point), rather she said something to the effect of why has she not filed for divorce on her own if she did not intend to stay in the marriage. Well, that’s not quite the same as saying directly that she is disarming and will not leave the marriage, is it?
I do think the money is a vengeance thing, at least in her mind. I think the real issue is she needs an excuse to release her anger. Remember she has a large ego and has a major problem with becoming vulnerable to a man (she can be vulnerable to women or the kids). This means she needs to accept what she sees as a weakness and acknowledge the fact that she really does want to be loved.
A month or two ago she finally admitted in counseling that she felt abandoned by her father, was angry with him and she was treating me as she treated him. The counselor told her I was still here and was not abandoning her. The counselor then asked W how she thought it would feel to be loved. This was is very difficult for W to admit to but she eventually said it would feel good. Can you see that it really is her hurt inner child that is throwing up all these defenses, trying to keep out the very thing she wants the most – to be loved?
BTW, I think the very same issues apply to Mrs. Hairdog, Mrs. Chrome, Mrs. GGB, Mrs. Balto, and even Lou’s BB.
That attitude sucks. You sound like someone who is already in the process of going through a bitter D, not someone who really wants to make the M better.
This attitude does not mean that I have no compassion for my wife and her history. But I will not accept those problems as justification for her poor behavior, just as she does not accept my FOO as an excuse to act out on my part.
That's a joke right? Sorry for the sarcasm but you are deluding yourself with this mentality. Don't you see how the power struggles and intimacy struggles are Interrelated? You can't just say the fear of intimacy is Causing the power struggles. And for sake of argument, if they are, how are you possibly expecting to get rid of the fear of intimacy if you still hold up such walls to each other? Money wise or not.
Yes, the fear of intimacy IS the cause of the power struggles. As for overcoming this, I have let down my walls, I have bared myself by telling her why I react as I do. I have told her my understanding about how my FOO affects me, how it triggers my anxiety and abandonment issues, why I feel the need to pursue, that I fear losing her, the kids, the family. I have told her directly and to the point, no beating around the bush, that I want to have an intimate relationship with her, to make love and not just have sex, and to commit to the marriage. I have said this several times to her and in front of the counselor. I have made my position very clear and laid it on the line for all to see.
The ball is now in her court to accept what she claims she has always wanted. Now she must come to realize that either she does not want that, or there is something within her that prevents her from accepting it. Either way it is her issue. This is why she is in the crucible. Can you see how this contributes to the health of the relationship?
Do you really not see that the two of you are really having the dynamics of a D battle....and not a battle to SAVE your M? ONE of you has got to give. I know you say you've changed over time....but what I see you doing now, and apparantly others do to is digging in your heels and being stubborn. Honestly, most of your posts lately have sounded like she needs to do xyz, or it's her turn to do xyz etc. It seems lately you've taken the focus off of YOUR behavior and put it back on her.
Ok...so you are thinking she wants the property to give herself more if you two D....have you talked to her about that lately? Have you told her lately what your issue with this is? I'm not asking if you've asked her or told her before....I'm asking about recently.
Just this week in our MC session my H and I had a conversation which stemmed over my H not openening his freakin mouth (sorry just a tad frustrated with that). He ASSUMED I should know something, because I'm a reasonably intelligent woman (his words). I had to remind him (yet again) that we are individuals just because he thinks I would/should know something....doesn't mean I will. The only way for him to guarantee I understand him is to....speak up.
Cobra, I honestly do see the two of you in a HUGE power play and the only way to get out of that is for one of you two to let go of the rope.
I see several of us telling you very similar things...yet you seem to be discounting us. Remember we are gathering our info from what you say, and how you say it....there is something to what we are telling you. We are being no less honest with you....as you have been with others on here.
The ball is now in her court to accept what she claims she has always wanted. Now she must come to realize that either she does not want that, or there is something within her that prevents her from accepting it. Either way it is her issue. This is why she is in the crucible. Can you see how this contributes to the health of the relationship?
I do see your points. I just think your approach is a little off. Too harsh, needs to be more empathetic and "softer." But I am glad to hear you have opened up to her about your own fears. It's no accident the two of you are together, and for this long. And yes, she may claim she wants that "loving" M, but as you stated, her FOO has set it up that she is now with someone who she is having a hard time being intimate with. And you as well. You admit going into the M without loving each other, so on some level, that had to be "ok" with you. You both have your work cut out for you, but who doesn't.
It seems lately you've taken the focus off of YOUR behavior and put it back on her.
Exactly. It is time for her to make a choice. The focus keeps coming back to her because she has avoided this decision for so long.
Ok...so you are thinking she wants the property to give herself more if you two D....have you talked to her about that lately? Have you told her lately what your issue with this is? I'm not asking if you've asked her or told her before....I'm asking about recently.
Yes, this past Wednesday.
Cobra, I honestly do see the two of you in a HUGE power play and the only way to get out of that is for one of you two to let go of the rope.
I see several of us telling you very similar things...yet you seem to be discounting us. Remember we are gathering our info from what you say, and how you say it....there is something to what we are telling you. We are being no less honest with you....as you have been with others on here.how this contributes to the health of the relationship?
I understand you see things as I relay them. Maybe think I am doing a good job in conveying the extreme control and imbalance of power she has had in this relationship during the past, and how much I have turned things around.
Understand one other point about why I do not give as much credence to her latest list of complaints as you and others might. Her complaints about me have not been consistent. Over time as I change one behavior, she throws up another complaint. After a while I realized she was just making excuses to keep me off balance and distanced. Her complaints now were not even on her radar screen a year ago. What she will complain about a year from now is completely unknown. Her complaints are not the real issue.
That is why your advice to address a particular point, or make an unconditional apology will actually cause me to feed into feed into her game, because it will imply that her excuses are valid. I did this for so many years that I know all to well where that will go. I think Hairdog can tell you the same thing.
So I disagree that this is not a battle to save the marriage. It really is, but we are way down the road to where there are few alternatives left but divorce. That is why I am not really acknowledging her attempts to pull this thing back into a power play. Remember she is the one pushing for restitution and revenge. That is a power play. I am trying to sidestep her demands and only reluctantly acknowledging them because the true focus needs to be on our core FOO issues. Power plays are all diversions anyway, right?
