LS,I would advise being mysterious and unavaialble.Your H needs to "miss you" and wonder where you are.It will help him get in touch w his feelings for you.Let him miss you today.
Kathy, I heard the same things and actually felt the same way for months (as your relatives do).I was so very angry and distrustful of the stranger who had taken over my H's mind. Actually,it helped me detach as I considered my real H absent and the imposter a manifestation of his MLC.
To all... It's important not to discuss your relationship with family.It's great to have their love and support,but DBing is foreign to them.
At this point,now that my "real H" has returned,I regret revealing so much to some people,especially to my brothers who will never feel the same way again or have respect for my H. It's best to vent here on the board and to a very few trusted supporters who will not try to influence you.My strength came from all of my friends on this board.
Bye for now and do wonderful things for yourselves today...Jenny
Don't particularly have any advice for you at the moment, but wanted to respond to something you asked about in your post above.
I remember VERY distinctly standing in the kitchen, looking at my XW in January about two weeks before the divorce, and thinking to myself just what you said, "Who are you and what have you done with my wife?"
I think that particular moment was one of the absolute worst for me in this whole roller coaster ride. I remember going out to the barn and literally collapsing and crying for almost half an hour. It seems worse than finding out about the affair. It was a very disturbing moment and realization for me. At that time, she was a complete and total stranger to me, and to top it off, not a person who I found to be at all attractive at that point in time.
So, I just wanted to tell you that you are not losing your mind, this feeling really does happen. I have seen other people on this board express it as well.
I thank the Lord that my situation has changed. My wife that I remember and shared so many good times with is back inhabiting my XW's body now! It is so nice to have her back.
I'm just about to bring up Retrouvaille to her (there is one session scheduled here in town in September). I think we're getting things (in terms of Dr. Harley's emotional needs theories) back on track very well. Now it is time for communication, to replace our previous form of non-communication which we both did so well.
I just hope she will learn to trust me again to the extent that she may someday open up to me about her affair. She doesn't know that I know about it yet, and I hate carrying this secret around with me, but I don't want to be the one to bring up the subject of the affair. I just wonder what her timetable might turn out to be about revealing it. I know it could be months, even years. I will have to wait and see. This will be the real test of my patience.
By the way, friends and family always mean well, but until they have been on this ride themselves, they DON'T know what we are feeling, or even thinking, and you can't convince them otherwise, no matter how much you explain sometimes. Listen closely to the people on this board, we have lived on this ride, and some people have even lived a ride almost exactly like yours. Take advantage of every bit of info you can get here. I know the people on this board and at my church have been the only ones who had any understanding of what I was feeling at all. All I got from friends, family, therapist and doctor was negative feedback, and had I followed some or all of it, I would not be in the remarkable postion I am now - getting back together with my wife!
Just to let you all know that it rained here in KY yesterday so obviously my H could not cut the grass and he did not come home or call me at all yesterday. I did make sure that I did not go home for lunch just in case he came home anyway. It hurts that he did not call and I am finding it hard to not think of him and the OW. I know that he is supposed to go to the lake this weekend with the guys and can't help but wonder if there will be girls there too. I am trying to make sure that I have plans for this weekend, but as there are not a lot of my friends that I have told our situation too, it is hard to call someone to see what they are doing this weekend when they will wonder where he is. He has Monday off and it makes me so mad that this would have been OUR 4 day weekend together and that in a couple of weeks when where he works shuts down for a week, we were planning on (it was acutally his idea and he made initial plans to go in late February) going to a place in South Carolina where we spent out honeymoon. Of course, we obviously aren't going now and I know that he cannot go there without me because it was a husband and wife thing and the conditions state that we would show ID. Anyway, I am trying to plan on going out of town to stay with my best friend and if he wakes up out of this whatever then maybe we can do something together, but I am not holding my breath. This is all so hard.
I guess today he may be coming to mow the lawn since it is a nice day and I will eat here at work and not go home and maybe run some errands. He better call me. I know that is sad to say that, but it makes me mad when he doesn't and I know it should not. I am getting upset over things that I cannot control, but at the same time it is hard to know that the man that I married and fell in love with is acting like he can just forget about everything and go on with his life.
If anyone would like to respond with how they dealt with things like this then I would appreciate it. Thanks to all of you, you all have really helped me.
OK, I really hope that I have not blown things. I saw my husband today. I know that I did a major backslide and should not have gone home for lunch, but he called and he was going to mow the lawn and so I did go by the house. I am in a real funk due to PMS. Or at least I hope that is part of the problem. Anyway, my husband had said to me on the phone yesterday and today that if I needed to talk about anything he would be home. He did call me yesterday to tell me about how he thinks he tore his rotator cuff at work and how work is awful and he needs to go back and finish getting his degree so he will have something to fall back on.
Well of course I go home and we both eat lunch at the same time and talked about what we were doing this weekend. He is going to the lake with friends and I told him that I was also going to a lake although I did not know which one yet with friends. (I lied, I don't have plans for this weekend except to hang out with my family-I tried to set stuff up with friends but they were all going out of town).
Well, I go to leave to go back to work and I start with anti-DB'ing technique of "You had said if I needed to talk we could, is there something that you want to talk about?" To which he replies that we need to talk but not today and of course I push (Damn this PMS, I even filled out my timesheet wrong today at work) to talk and I said you know we really need to go out sometime as friends and do something fun and he says he knows, but.....I said what don't you want to? and he replies that he doesn't know. He says that he just doesn't know if he wants to be married anymore and he doesn't know if that will change. He doesn't know about the institution of marriage. He says that he likes me and says that towards the end (before he said he wanted to separate) that he would look at me and feel like he did not know me- I said was it because I changed and he said it was that and also because we did not have that much time to spend with each other-you see we work different shifts and saw each other at lunch and on the weekends). I said something to the effect of yeah people change and they have to adjust and get to know each other again and talk about it and stuff like if he felt like he maybe liked another person more than me and he says that had nothing to do with it and that yeah he hangs out with OW and they work out at gym and hang out and I said that we could work out at gym and hang out and he says that yeah, OW would probably marry him tomorrow if she could, but he does not want that. He is listening to me and then he says that "You really want to be married don't you?" to which I reply that yeah, I took a vow for better or worse and he says I know I took a vow also, but I changed and you changed. I did say to him that I or him or anyone else could think that they are going to marry or be with someone for years and years and always 24/7 be "In love" with the butterfly feelings and always missing each other and always wanting to be with that person at every moment of the day that they could , but that was an unrealistic expectation because life does happen and, it's not about did I make the right decision to marry this person, you have to make the decision right. Things do change and you have to recognize that and try to be friends and always remember to keep doing the fun things and that sometimes you have to "act as if" and feelings can change for the better.
He says that we will talk next week, and I say well maybe instead of talking we need to go and hang out and do stuff as friends. He does not know. I then suggested that maybe when we talked, we could have a "Mediator" he said what a mediator? (like he was stunned-thinking I was talking aobut a divorce mediator) and I said not a divorce mediator, maybe a therapist. It could be on the phone with him. He says, but we don't fight so why do we need him? I just dropped it and didn't say anything. He says again that he wants to be friends and talk to me and if things change and they work out and we get back together (he means divorce now and still be friends) then that if great, but..... I went back to work and I felt like crap that I had done all of these non'DB'ing methods and I again call him and said "I am sorry, but I think that I am PMS'ing so you just caught me at a bad day and he said he thought that something was wrong because normally I don't want to talk about it and he does. He said You know this is not easy for me, I feel like I'm being ripped apart. There is nowhere that I can go and relax. I said that he could come to the house and relax when I am not there if he would like and he says no he can't relax there either because that is our house. I told him to remember that we were friends and that sometimes lately when we have been together it has been relaxed more. Sometime it's not and sometimes it is and that is ok. Maybe if we hung out more together then we could both learn to relax. He said that he would call me next week and I could tell him a time that we can get together and talk.
OK, Now I really need to get your all's take on how to fix what I have done or how to handle it if he wants to get together to talk or what to do. I feel like even though at times I have seen baby steps that he is still really moving towards a divorce and I don't want that. He says that he always thinks about all of this at work (he works at a factory) and that nothing is changing. I of course feel like if he would quit thinking about it negatively then he would maybe feel different and how are things changing if he won't spend time with me and try to have fun and try to work this out. If he thinks he doesn't know if he wants to be married all the time then it is a self fulfilling prophecy. I did ask him if he felt like he wished that he wanted things to work out and he said that he did not know if he did. How does one person go from being in love with someone and thinking they are the best thing to ever happen to them and then just forget that? Please you all, I really need your expert advice even though at times, I forget it and go against my better judgement but it is hard to not just want to tell him to stay in this marriage and fight for it. How did you all stay in and want it when it seemed like they did not? It is so hard to not take it personal. Please someone, respond to this, I really need some help right now.
For what it's worth, I think your h wants to push you away and recapture the excitement that he once felt toward you. He loves you, in his tortured and confused way right now. He just doesn't want to be married to his sister. (Believe me, when push comes to shove he'll want the stability of that sister, but right now he wants "passion".) Listen to Jenny Baker -- make yourself mysterious and unavailable. Tune out some of what he says, but when he talks be an active listener, and as Jenny said repeat some of the things he says so he knows you're listening. When he says he feels like he's being ripped apart, listen very closely. At least he's telling yousomething. My h did the same at one point, and I fortuantley was there for him, just hugged him, but that was important. Don't tell him what he needs to do, or that he responsibilities to marriage vows, or anything like that. They can't take pressure when they're going through this, and they can't take guilt. He wants you, but he just doesn't want you the way he feels right now -- he wants you to put the spark back in the marriage. There's a book called Light Her Fire, light his fire -- haven't read it, but maybe you need to take a look at it. Also look at John Gray's books on Mars and Venus -- problem with them, though, is that you have to have two people interested in the marriage, but lots of what he says is still applicable in yours and my situations. Maybe you could try sending him a humorous email, just to let him know that you are back "on top of the world" even though you aren't. Leave it at that, and don't ask any quesitons about how he's feeling, or tell him how you're feeling. It gets easier to do as you get more practice.
Still interested in what other people think about what I should do this week when my husband wants to get together to talk. He said that I name the time and day )it would have to be the weekend since we work different shifts and I told him I would not talk about it on my lunch hour. I am afraid to have this talk because I know that it won't go anywhere. I need some more advice so pleast help me. Also please read my previous post that I posted on 6-30 and tell me what you think. Thanks.
Hi Jenny, Since you posted about the success of your renewed marriage, I have taken to heart all that you have said. I am starting to see some real changes in my h, though since I have been this route with him four times now (the back and forth, etc.) I am quite wary, so I'm not rushing back into the we're one, and a couple, and all that, which is probably helping him too. I am also wary that he is just being nice so that we'll go on holidays together so he can prove that he will make up the last rotten holiday to me, and then when we return he'll leave. But that's my own paranoia and I do manage to keep it to myself. I have completely stopped all OR talks, and all forms of pursuit, including asking how he's feeling, or telling him how I'm feeling (ie hurt, betrayed, beaten down, etc.). I remember hims aying the last time he turned the corner, that he was just sick of all the upheaval and the way he'd hurt me and our family, and just wanted his life to return to normal. I started badgering him about the OW/EA and how he was still connected to her, etc. and travelling with her, and we slid back into the soup. I've just laid right off all that -- it helps having a one year deadline for myself (MOther's Day next year), because it gives me the luxury of being non-reactive for once. I think that is key, not reacting to what they are saying, or doing, to hurt you. I just wanted to thank you for posting your list of dos and don'ts when you did. It helped me alot. I don't know what is going to happen with this marriage, but it seems to be on the right track, and I'd like to keep it there. Any thoughts?
First, LS I COMPLETELY sympathize with you and your situation! So many of us are going through such similar scenarios it is frightful!
I do have a question/comment/concern about the being 'mysterious'. I completely detached and left for 2 weeks, as many of my DB comrades know, for the backcountry. This was a great experience for me and one I had been planning and saving for for over 2 years. Now, my H has been moved back in since March 5th after living with his bimbo for 4 months--- so we are on a 4/4 split going now. Things appeared to be moving forward-- baby step by itsy bitsy baby step. Then I left.... guess what I found when I got back!! An H who had decided that me being gone made the turmoil less, so he dreaded my return. He didn't "miss me at all". So I am really concerned about the advice that is fairly blanketed about going dark, being mysterious, etc... This only seemed to throw my H and I back into a major crisis! He spent a LOT of time with his bimbo while I was gone too. So, am I looking at this wrong or missing something? Or do I look at this and realize going dark isn't going to be an effective strategy for my H and I?
My H is suddenly back on "you're suffocating me" mode-- and I had zero contact with him for 2 weeks!! Damn, I must be good at long distance interference! On the flip side, after my trip I have learned some interesting things about myself and life. I think I am starting to truly accept the loving detachment--- it is a very weird feeling, and I still don't really 'trust' it. My H's contact with his bimbo is increasing, but I know I went overboard in expecting him to knock off his interactions with her and started to push too hard. Now I am just trying to tell myself to enjoy the times he and I DO have together and not stress when he is out doing his thing (with her or without her-- though the 2nd one is easier to deal with). My H is NOT a persuer-- didn't even persue me in the beginning really, even though he was madly in love with me.
LS, btw, my H also was attracted to me because of my independence and direction. Now he is involved with a 23 yo loser-- and I NEVER use that term about anyone except her. I am getting the speech of "I love you, but I am not in love with you" and "We have become really good friends, but anything more makes me uncomfortable." And so on and so forth. I don't have any real advice for anyone right now, because I am trying to decide if I have done anything right or not! I got an ironic kick last night when we were at the fireworks show-- H was driving one of the water trucks for fire safety with some guys from work. One of the guys from work has been in an on and off again separation from his wife-- he had an OW and was acting REALLY childish. Well, H hooked up with this guy pretty quick because of their similar mind set. Even told me back in March that his coworker was like him in that they just didn't know where they were going to be happy and that they didn't really think they wanted to be married anymore. Well, the irony part? His friend pulled his head out of his keister and is finally starting to work on his marriage! I couldn't believe some of the really mature things coming out of his mouth last night!! If only my H would get a clue too!
Sorry for the rambling everyone! Would really like some input, either on this thread or on my other one. LS, you are in good company here, and we are all going to come out of this as winners-- with or without our spouses. Oh, and I almost daily look at my H and wonder who this person is and what has he done with my H... and so do most of his friends.
