So, you were hurt, disappointed, felt rejected and disrespected, emasculated, and attacked out of nowhere???
All perfectly reasonable reactions. Did you share your honest reaction with her in a direct way and tell her how you felt? I hope you didn't act as though this sudden change and attack was working for you...
BTW, this stuff about the trip is CRAP on her part. She is scared about being alone with you because of her own guilt. She is finding excuses to avoid an uncomfortable situation.
And, no matter what conversation you had about the plans, I expect she felt coerced into going along with a couples weekend rather than letting you down after all she has put you through... So, it is good that she expressed that.
P.S. I'd say SHE needs to be a little more direct here...
"GH, I know we agreed on the plans, but I'm regretting it. I don't feel able to deal with a weekend alone with you, I'm afraid there will be too many expectations."
If money were the problem, the spending spree wouldn't work for her either. And, if a spending spree is really more important to her than a weekend alone with you in general, then that is a whole other problem. I'd say you'd need to insist on your R being more of a priority.
Quote: BTW, this stuff about the trip is CRAP on her part. She is scared about being alone with you because of her own guilt. She is finding excuses to avoid an uncomfortable situation.
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago to my H that I would like to go to the Bon Jovi/Nickelback concert coming this July. He made excuses too. I was disappointed but oh well. I just go with the flow these days, whatever happens, happens. I think our S's are still uncomfortable being totally alone with us. Patience...patience...patience
So, you were hurt, disappointed, felt rejected and disrespected, emasculated, and attacked out of nowhere???
All perfectly reasonable reactions. Did you share your honest reaction with her in a direct way and tell her how you felt? I hope you didn't act as though this sudden change and attack was working for you...
Well, I don't think I felt ALL those things, but what I did feel, I did directly and immediatly express that to her. I acted as if, and told her that I was dissapointed because I was looking forward to this trip. There was more to it but that was the gist of it.
I don't know if it sounded different the way I posted it, but I didn't feel "attacked" in any way. As unhappy as I was, which was not really THAT unhappy, I was actually happy that she managed to tell me BEFORE we took the trip that she didn't really want to go and not during or a week after like she used to. To me, this was a good thing. Also, I didn't feel attacked or emasculated because I had always said this was something for Mother's day and since I want to get her something she will enjoy, and have not done so well with that in the past, in the end, I was glad to actually be told what she didn't want and glad to help her come up with something she does want. It's no sweat off my manhood if she wants to be direct with me, and at no time did I feel disrespected or anything like that. The convo was just two people expressing how they felt about something. I suppose I could have just made light of it by calling her on waiting until now to tell me she didn't want to go instead of when I was making all the plans...kinda like how I sat on that reciept for a few days.
Quote: BTW, this stuff about the trip is CRAP on her part. She is scared about being alone with you because of her own guilt. She is finding excuses to avoid an uncomfortable situation.
Ok, well, I think that is partly true but she IS alone with me every night and we will still be taking a 4 hour round trip and seeing a concert together so... As for her guilt, I am struggling with that. I think I have been clear in expressing my acceptance of the situation as she's stated it. If it's TRUE that there was no PA, at least in terms of sex, then why the continuing guilt? How long will that last? Now of course, the continuing guilt is a big red flag to me that I probably don't know everything but as we discussed before, I may never know and will have to forgive based on what she's had the strength to tell me.
Quote: And, no matter what conversation you had about the plans, I expect she felt coerced into going along with a couples weekend rather than letting you down after all she has put you through... So, it is good that she expressed that.
I IMMEDIATLY felt this as well. It's another reason why I just go over my disappointment and moved on to something else. To me, knowing how much my W tends to keep things inside, ESPECIALLY her wishes not to do something, I am very happy to see her trust ME enough that I won't go into a tailspin over this and just tell me what she wants.
This is basically what I told her when I reacted with a bit of anger.
"I can't wait until I have a million dollars in the bank so I can do these things without money being the only excuse not to. I want to be romantic and make plans for us to be alone and I feel like every time I do that, or HAVE done it in the past, it comes down to money. We go out routinely and spend more money on furniture or something else without really ever blinking an eye. I think one of our biggest problems in the past was not making time for ourselves and now that we can afford it a bit more, I want to do that. I understand why you are concerned but I just wish we could have some time to ourselves and not constantly be on edge about money."
She responded calmly, pointing out that S5's birthday is next weekend and that's one of the main reasons she is a little stressed about the money issue, because it is a large expense not normally in our budget.
Again, I feel I expressed myself calmly but with a bit of an edge and she did as well. This WOULD have been an argument in the past and likley we would have canceled the whole trip because I would have thrown a little fit about not getting what I want and more than that, how DARE W be unhappy with something I did for her...gee, wonder why she kept things inside all these years...lol.
Anyway, just thought I would be a little more specific.
Well, I don't think I felt ALL those things, but what I did feel, I did directly and immediatly express that to her.
Excellent
Ummm, as for guilt, it doesn't really matter if it was a PA or an EA. She has put you through h*ll and she has made choices that didn't work for her and she knows it.
Yea, I don't pat myself on the back THAT much but in this case, I was really proud of myself because I did THINK about all we have talked about here about being direct and such and that caused me to decide to just BE direct and not ignore how I felt. Then, my validation and NOT letting it get into something like an argument was also a really big thing for me because I used to be the KING of always being right and not letting something go until I proved I was right. I just said my peace and then moved on. Unheard of for me, and my W knows it!
Quote: Ummm, as for guilt, it doesn't really matter if it was a PA or an EA. She has put you through h*ll and she has made choices that didn't work for her and she knows it.
I guess I get that but she doesn't ACT like she is that broken up over what she put me through. I guess by that I mean she doesn't act like she wants to make up for it, or somehow undo it. I guess that's the struggle because on one hand, she's NOT sorry she did this thing because it showed her a lot about herself and her strength, but on the other hand, she hurt someone she loves and possibly damaged something that she thinks she may want to return to. Add to that the general confusion about what she wants, and probably feeling guilty about not KNOWING she wants to be with me, and I suppose you have a guilt $hitstorm. Thanks for that...I wish there was some way I could help her get past that but I think it's probably something she needs to do on her own for the most part.
Yes, I totally understand not leaving,and believe me i DID NOT want to leave,i even came back unwanted several times only to make things worse.My sitch was different though,i really made things worse by my actions after finding out so she kinda disliked me very much and you could cut the tension with a knife when i was around.I wish like hell i couldve stayed and not put my kids through this,but i think i really had no choice if i was to get where i am today.
There is a poster in MLC - goes by JSD. He used to share a thread with Shark but I asked him to start his own so hopefully he can get more feedback.
He started it today. Can you look in on him? He and his wife still live together, too. I think they have potential but he is spinning his wheels at the moment.
Just one thing from two nights ago...There was a little more kissing and lots more physical stuff going on and best of all, when W came to bed, instead of staying on her side, as she has been doing for some time now, she faced me, snuggled right up to me and hugged me until she fell asleep. Wow. That was nice. I actually acknowleged it yesterday telling her how nice it was to have her do that.
So, now It's Friday, the day of our big concert trip.
Last night was kinda good and kinda bad.
W has been REALLY depressed lately, especially in the morning. She asked me to stay home with her yesterday and even though it was REALLY bad timing in terms of work, I did it. She appreciated it a lot I think. We went and did some mom's day shopping (my mom's babysitting for us tonight) and picked the kids up from school early for lunch (they loved that). I did have to go to work for awhile but by then W was ok. The early evening was good after the kids went to bed. Lots of flirting and I initiated a good share of hugs and just general physical closeness while we were watching TV. That in response to her saying in the last R talk "in the 10 years we've spent on the couch together you've NEVER made any effort to be intimate or affectionate." Of course, that's not quite true but I accept that it's how she sees it and so I have upped my effort on that front, holding her a lot and just being "closer" most of the time. She does not resist and often gives signs of appreciation for it.
In general, our physical interaction and flirting have gone way up. She made a comment about me walking around in my undies and I said "well, I look great, so why not" with a laugh. She said "I never said you didn't now did I?" with a equally big grin. Stuff like that is a daily occurrence over the past week or so.
That was the good...not the not so good...
Last night, she started talking to me in bed by saying that she really appreciated me sticking by her through all this. From there she went on for about an hour about how she thought she was a failure, and mostly because of the DUI and not so much the rest of it. She did reference the affair by calling it such for I think the first time ever and did apologize for it a few times. Mostly I just held her, listened and tried to validate her. At one point I did start to gently encourage her to seek help because I really think she would benefit from at least talking to someone professional as well as some meds. Of course, she shut this down quickly. She just won't do it. I stopped pressuring her about this because she started to get upset and shut down on me. I think she just needed to talk and wanted to be able to do that without me "fixing" her or just saying she needed to take a pill. I realized that pretty quickly, said my peace and then went back to validating stronger than before. She seemed to be ok with that and continued talking.
I am worried about her. I know I should expect this because of all she's going through but I wish she would see someone about it. I am not going to force the issue though because for the most part, she's ok, and when she's not, she seems like she's willing to lean on me, which is unlike her in the past. I think it's important for me to be a good listener and NOT judge or fix her.
SO, we are off to see some music tonight and I will post how it went tomorrow.
