Back from our trip. We did have a nice time on the trip and we did ML twice and we did talk some on the four hour trip home about the issue we are having.
It was evident that he was truly exhausted on the weekend. We missed an exit that caused us to take about two more hours than it should have to get there. On the car trip to the place we talked a lot about kids and work stuff - I figured that we should get that part of the discussion out of the way if possible. We had a nice dinner, drank wine, cuddled and went to sleep. The next day we ml in the morning, did a 2.5 mile trail hike, spent time in the hot tub, laid around and watched movies and otherwise relaxed. We had no cell signal and H seemed happy with that. On Sunday we woke up ml again, had brunch and proceeded home - it took four hours rather than six and we took another hour to look around at a shop and get some dinner before we went home.
On the way home I brought up the issue of the big argument we had and how it still hurt me long after. He, of course, saw it as a "blow up and over and done with" kind of thing. He again posited the overwhelming exhaustion/stress that he feels (the fire we had, the work, the kids, fertility stuff) as being responsible for him needing to "disengage" and regroup. He sees it as a values issue where I will sacrifice myself for other (including sacrificing he and I) by making us see my family once in three months on a weekend where we had something scheduled on Sunday too AND had full work weeks on top of that, that I will sacrifice my sleep for him and the kids, that I will sacrifice myself in every situation. He stated (in essence) that he does not value sacrificing himself for the sake of the marriage or sex or other family members. He sees it as self destructive so when he needs to, he chooses to disengage. We haven't been to church in a month due to all the travel - he stated clearly that he values church over sex and if we aren't making it to church then... He states that he recognizes that this has been this way since November or so and that he is aware that we only ML when it is "time." He feels that he is offering "solutions" when he sets stricter parameters around his work (as he has offered), sets a policy of no weekend travel on both days for the next several months and making going to bed at a more reasonable hour of night a priority. Of course, this whole deal doesn't match my view of the "problem" so it doesn't sound like a solution to me. Further, he believes that I want some utopian relationship that has never existed for any couple, ever, and so .... Basically, he said that it isn't working for him either so this is his solution.
I pointed out that I don't even define the problem the same way (he agreed). I told him that if one has desire for their spouse that they will make time to communicate that regardless (not always with sex). I told him that the R between S's should not be shifted by every wind that blows our way. I told him (in essence) that I reject his solution to the problem. He told me that if we did as he suggested we wouldn't be having to have this conversation.
The compromise: I will follow his perscription until June (which is when he believes we can can achieve enough cumulative hours of rest/sleep etc...). After that, if things are not better, happier, more connected than we look at other issues or solutions.
I am disgusted and I am hurt and I don't see how we are to find our way out of this if we can't even agree on the basic issue. His issue: sleep/rest. My issue: relationship/sex too low on priority list. At one point I actually found it necessary to ask (stupid, I know), "H, do you think I am pretty?" His answer: "I think you are just beautiful."
I am really contemplating spending from now until June staying out of his way - just GAL, working out, reading, doing my own thing in the evenings and leaving room for him to get all the "rest" he needs. I will even go to bed early so that he knows that I am getting "rest" too.
Or is that just me being a PITA?
On to the other things suggested: H IS an avoider for sure. He avoids intimacy and avoids situations that make him feel uncomfortable too. I don't think I am really just "a means to end" in having babies and such but I do think that a lot of the time I amount to merely a "partner" in the business of raising the kids whom he loves more than anything. Raising the kids comes before every other thing except God. For H (values wise) I think it goes: Faith, Kids, Karen, Work. I'm in there but I'm not one or two and number four is what puts food on the table so time spent goes: Faith, Kids, Work, Karen.
Maybe you shouldn't concentrate on the things that he can, maybe, justifiably find more important than sex such as kids or religion. Maybe you should point to all the things he spends time on that should definitely be less important than sex. For instance, you could say "How about on any given weekend you make it a priority to have sex with me before you spend time watching Star Trek reruns.". My sich is so much like yours it makes me want to cry for both of us. In fact, probably one of the main reasons why I don't worry anymore about whether "my looks" is the reason for my H's LD is that I know that truly gorgeous women like you and HP have the same problem. In my sich, even though at present time I have about a 60% chance of getting laid any weekend which is a vast improvement over the past, I know I will never get laid until my H goes through a whole series of other tasks that he considers more important or has to get out of the way in order to relax enough to have sex. For instance, I can be pretty certain that I won't get laid until my H has vacuumed the bedroom. Pretty soon I'm going to develop a Pavlovian response to the sound of suction.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I wish I were the one that chose those particular things to mention. H did. That is essentially H's mantra - x,y,z all come before sex. The inference is that I am being immature and idealistic to suggest that they don't. The sacred tv watching in the evening is H's "downtime" - very sacred and not to be toyed with.
Currently, I am considering just deluging H with sexual signals but doing nothing about them. I think I should just come at him like and HD guy - pat his azz, make sexual innuendo, jump up and kiss him at every opportunity, tell him how great he looks and then at night follow his prescription to just go get some sleep.
Whoa! Talk about scientific studies!!! If it wasn't for the fact that you are in the middle of this R that is so obviously hurting you, it would be interesting to see how your H responds to such advances. I could tell you how I would respond but that wouldn't be helpful at all.
Chromo
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Karen, I don't understand your H's plan. Is it: Get as much sleep and get 'caught up' and then re-focus on the sex life? Or what?
Let me ask you this: Do *you* want another baby as much as him? I'm wondering why you would want to voluntarily bring another being into the world that will cause even more stress and mandatory distance between you two?
I think a logical approach may work with your H. Make a schedule and stick with it. Let him know that you are doing this because you can clearly see that he needs to reduce the stress in his life and reducing the amount of sex will only cause his stress to go up--even if you never say a word, Karen. He is putting internal stress on himself because he wants to please you.
I think his plan is setting you both up for failure and I would be angling pretty hard for a different one.
Wow did not mean for my other post to sound harsh, But I am really wondering what you think teasing then turning off will do. Do you think it will spike his desire?
H has never been one to respond to the schedule. It isn't "spontaneous" etc... I have given all the requisite arguments and seen not one flicker of interest. There is always this "pie in the sky" type response that somehow banks on things over the next hill being "better." Well, I KNOW his plan will fail but I figure just go with it but while I'm busy getting all this rest and sleep I want H to be cognizant of the fact that I am still left wanting sex.
Chrissy,
What do I hope to achieve? Awareness. Not the kind of awareness he currently has. What he currently thinks is that I have the equivalent of a sexual tic that I cannot control and he just happens to be the object of it because he is there. For now, I have agreed to the Great Sleep Experiment 2006 and I shall stick to it but I don't think I can do so "quietly" but since actions speak louder than words.... Additionally Chrissy it may spike his desire and maybe it is time he lives with some desire without me jumping to fill his need (not to say I will turn down the opportunity if it arises because we all know I won't).
What is it about sleep and LD's? Why the obsession with it? And why is it that HD's RARELY are needing more sleep? I am not sure that I have seen ANY comments on here about HD's needing more sleep, but virtually EVERY LD needs more sleep? WTF? I know my wife never gets enough sleep, and yet I do with 2-3 hours less sleep each night then she does.
