If someone dismisses a compliment, they are often seeking reassurance. Given that she seems to care about the compliments of others, I expect that she cares about compliments from you, even moreso, which could make her insecure.
GH: Nice hair... W: Need a haircut GH: Really? I think it is very becoming, it really frames your face in a way that I love.
GH: Nice shirt... W: It is old and stained. GH: Maybe so, but I love the way it brings out the color of your eyes.
Perhaps more specific compliments would help at the outset.
GH: I love your hair like that, it is so romantic I just want to carry you to the beach for a picnic under the stars.
GH: That color is great on you, the contrast really makes your eyes sparkle.
Such compliments are much more meaningful -- they seem more real and more sincere.
Maybe it is time to stop trying to mindread and stop waiting for your W to mindread... Maybe you can try to have an open intimate discussion in which you express your feelings.
Yep. That's where I think I am at. Now I just have to get over whatever fear is holding be back from just doing that. I keep thinking it's because I am waiting for the right time but maybe it's just plain old fear. Gotta get ahold of that quickly.
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Alternatively, maybe you can take her dancing -- she liked that and it seemed to create a spark between the two of you.
That could work. First I have to get her to agree to leave the house with me, then we can work on the rest, lol.
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Also, remember that she did SMILE when you licked her face.
That was most certainly a WTF? kind of smile, not a "wow, that was hot" kind of smile. Trust me, I think I know at least that much. The positive thing was that she didn't get angry or anything, which is a plus these days.
Quote: If someone dismisses a compliment, they are often seeking reassurance. Given that she seems to care about the compliments of others, I expect that she cares about compliments from you, even moreso, which could make her insecure.
Ok, um, then I don't get it. So she likes/needs compliments from me but refuses to let me know that? And BTW, I do a fair share of specific compliments in with the general ones. I don't think that is the issue. I actually don't know what the issue is.
And, to journal a bit more...
This touches on something that I am thinking about ever since NM brought up the idea that I was testing my W with some of this stuff. Now, I don't believe my W is testing me on any conscious level, but I have to wonder if all this lack of communication from her is her way of seeing if I can "mind read" as well as OM could and just "know" what to do to make her happy/passionate/desire me like he did? I hope that's not the case because if it is, I am going to fail. I am SO mixed up with all this stuff, I would have a hard time passing that test. I will study harder but in the end, I think I am going to need someone to give me a couple of the answers so at least I know I am on the right track.
Man GH, I really hate to see you going through all this...I can defintely tell from your posts that this is nearly beyond frustrating for you. Truthfully, I don't have any answers (yeah, great, huh) but I do think you are harboring some fear of rejection here. Now I understand that she hasn't given you the "signs" and only she knows why, but it may be time for you to, at the very least, have a discussion setting forth some of the things you've been talking about on here. At the least, you can clear the air and let her know how you feel and maybe, in the process, she can give you some ideas as to what or what doesn't work. In the meantime, have you reviewed DR? There is a pretty good section on reviving the passion in a passionless marriage.
Something else to consider, either concisously or subconsioscly you are coming across as "needy" in this area and its something she can sense. Look, I agree with you that it would be damn nice if our W's would be all over us after realizing that this is what they want. But the fact is, it usually doesn't work that way. Right now, she is a strange place in her mind. She feels guilty, she feels lost, she feels a lot of things....maybe she's grieving the fact that OM turned out to be a big A-hole after all. That's a lot to process.
Something that I have been reminding myself lately with regard to my sitch is that when the shoe was on the other foot, my W stepped up and was the one who became more intimate and affectionate with me....I didn't come back begging for her and I certainly didn't feel that I had the "right" to be intimate. Do you kinda see where I'm going? I felt very guilty, I felt lost and unsure. She was the one that turned up the passion and guess what, I responded. Funny, now that we are back to piecing, she reminded me of this the other day....something for me to mull over as well.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: Something else to consider, either concisously or subconsioscly you are coming across as "needy" in this area and its something she can sense.
I couldn't agree more and this is putting too much pressure on her right now. Give your W some time to process all that has happened in the last few weeks. Unfortunately, she needs time to grieve over the loss of the OM (I know, it sucks but it is the truth). She can't just jump from one R right into another. As much as your head is spinning hers must be too and if she feels pressured by you in any way, well you know what might happen.....Just be her best friend right now as that is all she can probably handle at the moment. Patience, patience, and more patience. In the words of Tom Petty, "the waiting is hardest part...."
Ok Mama & Rob, I think you are on to something. I am SURE I am coming off as needy no matter how much I try not to because, well, I AM needy in this area. She KNOWS what I want and need and that makes it all the worse for me. I try to play the confident, "just do it" role but it's just that, a role at this point. I am working on making it more than that but it's really hard to regain your confidence in this environment.
Now to my problem (or at least the one for this minute). IF you are right, and she needs more time, as I suspect she does, then how does that need for giving her time without pressure mesh with this idea that it may be time to have a talk and express how I feel. Is that not pressure as well?
I guess it's all in what I say, eh? I guess if I say "Baby, I want some sex in the next two weeks or I'm out of here." then it may be pressure. How about something like "W, I just want you to know that I am confused about where to go from here and a bit afraid to guess because if I am wrong I will make things worse, not better. I know I have passion and desire for you and I want to be able to show you that. Here is what I would like to see in our future and I just wanted to let you know so you can better understand where I am coming from..." Is that better or still too wishy-wahsy?
Thanks you two (and OT), you have given me a lot to think about. Like I said, the main thing I guess for me is to figure out how to balance the pressure/discussion thing.
I think the latter approach is fine. You're not pressuring so much as just expressing how you feel. Communication is essential and stating your feelings, wants, needs in a direct way is a damn good start. Pretty much, in my opinion, if your stating things in a direct way, you're not coming off as needy or wishy-washy.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
GH - Not sure if this will help, but as far as the intimacy discussion goes I've been wanting to add a bit to the convo for a while. BTW, I think telling her in a direct way that you want to be intimate and you are concerned about how she would react is fine, and I also suspect you are feeling really sheepish because a similar convo went badly, that is, nowhere, while in Ireland, right? Well, times are different now! Time for action.
Anyway, here's what I've had on my mind. There is a biological component to ML that we hardly think about - unless, like me, you deliver babies for a living. There is a wonderful hormone our bodies make, called oxytoicn, which is sometimes called the love drug. We produce it when we have an orgasm, and it gives us a sense of love, peace, and actually bonds us with one another. This very same drug is responsible for contracting the uterus during birth (yes, labor is really jsut a whole bunch of orgasms all at once! too bad nobody experiences it that way...) and allows for the heavy bonding of mother and infant at delivery. And finally, it is the same hormone that helps eject milk from amother's breast to feed her child - again, a time of intense love and bonding. The point of this biology lesson is this - if your W can have an orgasm with YOU, she will inadvertantly feel love and bonding with you. It could be your secret weapon. If she's had them with OM and not with you, perhaps that's how this whole thing got so hairy in the first place. Anyway, having really good sex is not just an expression of a way we feel, it actually creates a way of feeling because of the hormones released. Ever wonder why once you do ML you want more and more and can't beleive you don't do it more often? Yep. That's oxytocin working it for you. I suggest you work it too, GH.
I guess I was thinking that this way of seeing it might help sway you towards action. I sure do hope you get some.
Quote: "W, I just want you to know that I am confused about where to go from here and a bit afraid to guess because if I am wrong I will make things worse, not better. I know I have passion and desire for you and I want to be able to show you that. Here is what I would like to see in our future and I just wanted to let you know so you can better understand where I am coming from..."
I think that sounds excellent. As a woman that is what I would like to hear.
Thanks for the lesson...lol. OT and I have been down this path some before. She suggested that my W is faking some or all the time with me. Well, I guess nobody but my W would know the truth, but I am almost certain that she has had them with me. There are times when she seemed to just be going through the motions and then there are other times when I could tell something was different if you know what I mean. I have no qualms about admitting that she may have faked sometimes, I'm sure she did, just as I am sure sometimes she did not.
I guess I am lucky to a certain extent to have been with a couple women in the past who were VERY open about these things and taught me a lot about what to and not to do. That's why I am reasonably sure that when it comes to the actual foreplay and intercourse, I am doing fine, it's the initiation stage and the extra-bedroom intimacy where I struggle mightily.
I suppose all along part of my confidence that this will work out is that I believe that if I work on my "approach" and manage to get things "going" again, then the rest will work out, or at least I hope so.
