Well, I went ahead and said something about what I heard on the air. He vehemently denies he went.
Hmmmm, what does "said something" mean exactly?
His reaction suggests you went on the attack a bit rather than talking about yourself and sincerely simply reporting your thoughts and feelings.
Were anger and resentment preventing you from communicating in a direct, nonconfrontational manner? I expect that really focusing on your communication skills needs to be at the top of your list these days if you really want to wind up with any kind of healthy R with SO.
Great news about him ending it with OW. Though, if this is the first time he has "ended it," expect a bit of ongoing communication between them along with confusion and drama.
Also, as GH was touching on, try to lose a little bit of your confidence... You seem to be SO SURE of everything about SO. You really don't know what is going on in his life, his mind, or his heart. Try to really develop the beginner's mind and quit letting your entrenched expectations dictate what you see, how you react, and how things go.
Out GAL and all...lmao - at the grocery store w/ 2 little ones! I crack myself up.
OK....here goes....I looked back over the email I sent him yesterday and I really don't think it was anything bad...all it said was 3 lines - I heard what he said about attending the graduation; it explained why he didn't get here until late; and that I was hurt but didn't want to discuss it right then. He jumped all over me - saying he didn't go, he was reading from a flyer, OW didn't attend so why would he. And in his words "We ended everything 2 weeks ago". After this, I just lost it - I think all the pent up frustrations just got to me and I just started crying. He wasn't here of course, so didn't know.
He emailed me again, kind of yelling at me, then ended with " I see where this is going". WTF? I responded with I was sorry that it bothered me, that I felt damned if did/damned if I don't; saying when I listen to you, I hear this. When I don't listen to you, you make sarcastic remarks about that and "Acting as if I never cared is part of what contributed to the downfall of our relationship. "
Once he wasoff the air, he was headed to the parts place for my alternator and called, I was still really crying. I know he heard it, the convo took a bad turn - yelling, blaming - all the wrong the things - from both of us. I ende dup hanging up on him...he called back a few minutes later asking why I hung up. I told him because I was so angry, I just couldn't talk anymore. He said it wasn't the way to handle things and I said I know and thanked him for calling back.
When he got here, we talked/argued a bit. I told him the only reason I said anything was because I knew it was going to eat me up and that once he got here, he would be able to tell I was upset and I didn't want it to turn out the way it WAS turning out (i.e. in a stupid argument). I was still feeling sick (cold) and so was he. He went to the computer - I said I was taking a nap and went to the bedroom. He came in a few minutes later and said he was going to lay there for a bit. I said Ok, I need to sleep - trying to keep the cold away. Somewhere in there he said that he hadn't seen OW in a couple of weeks and that he was doing everything he could to appease me. I don't know what he means by that....I really don't - could be taken a couple different ways.
We never really finished the conversation - I fell asleep; so did he.He stayed here until about 7:30, then went to his apt. Around 10:15 or so, I was in bed and the phone rang. It was him - he asked if I was sick. He sounded horrible...he said he was really, really sick and wanted to see how I was feeling. I was not as bad as he was. We talked for a couple of minutes, then hung up.
This morning, he called around 6:45 to tell me his boss was coming in to cover for him and he was going to his apartment to sleep - that's how sick he is.
Quote: NM, to me, that "we ended things 2 weeks ago" would have been a clear invitation to R talk some. THAT is the exact thing it seems like you have not heard before and something that indeed WOULD change the dynamic of your approach to him, i.e. changing the level of the relationship. Maybe there's more to the story, but that seemed like a pretty good thing to me. Am I wrong?
No, GH, I don't think you're wrong - but it wasn't a face to face discussion. And once he said it, I had NO IDEA whether to say anything about "it" or what to do. I was completely thrown off by what he said, I never expected it.
Quote: Oh, and remember, what you THINK you know about SO and OW, no matter how much you believe it to be fact, is likely to be at least somewhat wrong.
Obviously, GH - lol. I mean - I had NO IDEA about this. I mean, I've done my best to try and NOT presume anything about him & OW - that's why this threw me so much, I guess.
Quote: I'm not saying to just jump right in and trust again but maybe it's time to explore a bit more in that direction and see what happens. At least maybe clarify what he said and expand on it.
I think so, too.
Like I said in my post - it turned into a stupid argument. Without any excuses though, I will say - we BOTH knew the argument wasn't getting us anywhere. Evidenced in him calling me back and saying so, LOL. We both knew arguing was being counter-productive. I tried to explain that I was hurt by what I heard - not mad. I told him it wasn't any of my business - he cut me off and said "Yes it is your business" ?? - I did say that it seems like he wants me to trust him, then something like happens. I said (dredging up the past, wrong - I know) - all the things he's lied to me about and how am I supposed to just automatically start to believe him.
Quote: he cut me off and said "Yes it is your business"
Here you are, at the place I was a few weeks back and it was at this point it occurred to me to be direct (thanks as always OT) and just come out and ask my W if she was saying we were now at a point where honesty was expected from both of us. She said yes, and immediately I changed my approach to just start giving her the benefit of the doubt most of the time instead of thinking the worst. I told her it was important to me to know that she CARED if I trusted her because it seemed like for the longest time, even before all this, it didn't seem like she did. She said she did care but sometimes felt that no matter what she said or did that I would not trust her so why try. This was important too because I got to let her know that I COULD trust her if that's what she wanted (she said she did) and I would work towards that starting right then.
Again, to me, it was VERY important that she tell me she wanted my trust because then it was easier to understand some of the things she did or said.
I know that was all about me but I hope it applies to your sitch.
I think SO could do a lot for you in trusting him but maybe you need to ask him directly if he can be trusted and more than that if HE wants your trust. Someone bent on lying and continuing an affair would not probably want your trust, they would likely just avoid the conversation. That's what my W did for a LONG time.
Quote: Well, I went ahead and said something about what I heard on the air. He vehemently denies he went.
Hmmmm, what does "said something" mean exactly?
His reaction suggests you went on the attack a bit rather than talking about yourself and sincerely simply reporting your thoughts and feelings.
*I* didn't think so, yet, he took it as such - that is, that I was on the attack. Or perhaps, he thought that was the way I was going to be? And it surprised him that I didn't attack?
Quote: Were anger and resentment preventing you from communicating in a direct, nonconfrontational manner? I expect that really focusing on your communication skills needs to be at the top of your list these days if you really want to wind up with any kind of healthy R with SO.
I agree - our communication skills are sorely lacking. I know it may not seem that I do anything different, but I can see how lately BOTH of us are trying harder. Trying not hurl accusations, trying not to blame, trying to listen better.
I really, really need help here. Trying to communicate in a healthier fashion. It's always been a big problem between us.
Quote: Great news about him ending it with OW. Though, if this is the first time he has "ended it," expect a bit of ongoing communication between them along with confusion and drama.Also, as GH was touching on, try to lose a little bit of your confidence... You seem to be SO SURE of everything about SO. You really don't know what is going on in his life, his mind, or his heart. Try to really develop the beginner's mind and quit letting your entrenched expectations dictate what you see, how you react, and how things go.
With him not living here, I really have no idea what goes on. Although, I did suffer through this once or twice before while he was still living here...having said that, I feel very strongly that this time is different. I may be wrong, but it feels very, very different this time. Women's intuition? The same intuition I had when I *knew* about when it started? Perhaps. Although I know, both you, OT, and GH said not to think I *know* all about what goes on - I really don't. Even if it doesn't come across that way here. If anything, I was assuming things between them were idyllic.
Quote: How is your hand???
Much better, thank you. The cut is healing properly. The swelling is gone...I think I really bruised the knuckle badly, however that's feeling better, too.
ok....not much going on here...SO is still sick, actually didn't work at his bar remote last night...nor go to work this AM. He called a few times yesterday - seemed like every time he woke up, he called here.
Today I knew he wasn't on air...not something that I can help but realize when it's not his voice coming over the air waves. ...didn't hear from him all morning. I finally texted his phone (he had given his laptop yesterday to the guy who was working for him last night, so he didn't have email - info he offered to me yesterday during phone convo)...and I didn't want to call him if he was sick/sleeping...so I chose to text so that he could answer on his own schedule. He called about a half hour later - sounding like crap.
He said he couldn't even get out of bed this AM to try and get to work and had his boss cover. We talked a little and he said something about coming here later. I wasn't sure what his tone meant, so I said I would understand if he didn't want to come out; trying to give him the choice if he doesn't want to/feel up to it. I said "Don't take it the wrong way, it's not that I don't want you here or anything, however I'll understand with you being sick." He said "No, I want to come out." A little more discussion and he said he'd call later after he woke up again and would let me know when/if he was coming. I said OK.
Now, on another note. His birthday is tomorrow. I had been waivering about getting him something or not. I had decided not to - for 2 reasons. 1) I always get him something -no matter what. I had been thinking that by NOT getting him something, Oh - I don't know what I was thinking, to be honest. Probably out of retaliation for: 2) He hasn't gotten me anything the last few holidays - why should I get him anything
Wonder what anyone's thoughts are on this. What I was going to get him I have to order online, so it won't get here in time anyway. Do I or don't I? I don't know what to do. Then I thought maybe something silly & homemade....I don't know.....He won't even be here tomorrow......
Another wonder of mine....this weekend. His mom is taking the kids Saturday/Sunday...HE knows this. She's also having a BBQ at her house Sunday, to which we're invited...he knows this, too, as he also got the same email as I did (which, she purposely (???) put in the email the line: "NM, I don't know where you'll be since I'm kidnapping your girls for the weekend to give you a break"), so please RSVP etc, etc. My question...do I make an offers for this weekend? I'm so afraid to suggest anything with him right now. Since he knows I have no kids, knows his mom's BBQ plans - do I wait to see if he suggests anything? I doubt he will, though. Sad that I think that. I know he's got to work Monday early AM at a Parade. And, he's supposed to work Saturday night as well....
The gift thing is tough for me. I have always opted to just do what I want to do, and that is to get her something no matter if she got me anything or not because it's what I do. I just think reacting to HIS lack of gifts on holidays is just that, a reaction, not a genuine self-motivated act on your part. On the other hand, as OT often says, you don't want to be "more in" than he is.
I am torn, but in the end, I would probably do SOMETHING. I look at it this way; if I like to do it, and my only reason for NOT doing it is to spite W, or get back at her for something, I just do it and be happy that I made a decision that made me happy.
NOT giving him anything would be a definite 180 for me. I've always gotten him something...even if it was "just from the kids". It makes me feel bad when I don't give someone something, that's how I feel. I don't care if someone gives ME something or not, I like to give things that make people happy. And he has said in the past that I am the only one who has ever given him things he really & truly wants. And, having witnessed what others have given him (yes, even OW) I do believe his statement. He has some particular interests and I've always focused on getting intriguing, hard to find gifts that genuinely make him happy and are in conjunction with his interests/hobbies. It's really not that hard and you would think anyone that knows him (duh, family and OW included) would focus on these interests, and from my POV, they never do/have.
And, oh boy, I don't want it to sound like I give gifts to earn love - that's not it at all. I happen to like putting a smile on someone's face and knowing that it made them happy.
Ok, so why not do that tomorrow? Again, I DON'T know if that's the right thing to do, it's just what I would do because I am like you.
The main thing I would guard against, and this is assuming that you two are moving forward, however slowly, is that you make him feel guilty because he did't get you anything recently. If you can just get him something that makes it clear you are doing it because you want to and NOT in any kind of reaction to what he didn't do for you, then I still say go for it. After all, you ARE trying to communicate a positive vibe, right?
I wish I could just say "go for it" but again, I just don't know. In the end, the best I can say is that I don't think it could hurt THAT much either way.
Trying to communicate in a healthier fashion. It's always been a big problem between us. 