I'll say this as simply and succinctly as I can and it is my WORST problem too...
Some days, the bad ones, the ones where we either feel worthless, or like we have to DO things for our spouses in this sitch, we think our spouses only love us for what we've done for them lately, NOT because we are truly worthy of their love in the abstract. In this, we reduce our value to them and in turn, don't give THEM credit for being able to see past the moment and to the people we really are. It's a disservice to ourselves AND to them.
Of course, I can say that but dammit if I still don't allow that stupid way of thinking govern a lot of my life still!
I've asked myself this countless times over the past several months....I found myself vacillating between complete (at least, imagined) detachment and trying new techniques to develop closeness with my W. Look at it from this perspective however, if you think its confusing to you....you gotta wonder what it looks like to them?
In any event, I don't think what you are thinking, feeling, experiencing is any way abnormal. I guess the plan is to get to a stage where you feel comfortable with your plan and stick with it.
I wish I had more specific advice, but rest assured that you are not alone here, lol.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Finally....the sun is out after about 2 weeks of rain!! I can't wait to get outside today!
Thanks GH & PARob....glad I'm not really a whacko and others feel along the same lines as me. Again, last night in those moments right before I fell into a deep sleep, I had some clarifying insights, yet this morning they somehow escape me again. Oh well.
I read thru a lot of old threads last night - specifically the 180's; DB 101 principles. Found some interesting info I can use. Duh! I felt so stuck in what I can do as a SAH mom....with SO only normally committing himself to 2 days a week (Mon & Wed) being here with the kids. (And now Wed is taken away for the next month due to a contest at his work that he's required to be at. F$%^*!$$!.)
Anyway, it seems we need to remind ourselves periodically of all the "Basics"....it really helps to go back and read this stuff from the "oldtimers (BTW - where IS she???) - good, important, vital info - especially to all the newcomers popping up around here. Sometimes we swap info/give advice that is so totally off the mark - it's good to remind ourselves of the basic principles. I urge everyone to go surf thru the old advice.
OK - 180's: Stupid little things I've never thought of: Home Depot courses! Yes - Gonna look into that. New clothes. i.e. - I normally wear workout kind of wear around the house - have to - kids, poop, etc. LMAO. Guess I can update that look with some newer stuff. I've lost so much weight, none of my old stuff really fits anymore. Good excuse. lol Anything to boost my self-confidence.
I also read in someone's thread about the WA Parent coming off as the Disneyland kind of parent - you know, the one who comes in and does all the fun stuff with the kids...reminded me that I need to do those kinds of things with the kids, too. A little hard with the baby being so young, but not impossible. It does cause my D7 to miss out on some things, but I'm going to try and get MIL (lack of better word) to commit to some days to babysit so that I can plan some outings with my sister and her D7.
Oh yeah - still haven't changed the answering machine message. Have to do that. Also, turn the answering machine OFF!! LOL. I'm also debating the idea of emptying my bedroom of all the things that he left here.....he's got a dresser/closet full of clothes. In another thread, I read it's a positive thing he's left personal items...but then again - he doesn't live here anymore! WTF do I need them cluttering up my room? Thoughts on this appreciated. I think I'll probably end up just neatly stuffing everything into the corner of the closet that I don't use. LOL
I guess I'm finally coming around. I'm tired of dwelling on what went wrong. I know what went wrong. However, I will not pay for my mistakes of the past for the rest of my life. SO will miss out on a lot of good things. That is his choice. His choice has led me down this road...one of self-improvement and facing the things that are not as I'd like them to be (about myself). I understand that this is not something that should ever end....rather - a lifelong commitment, to myself, as well as whatever R I'm in. Boy - someone remember to point these words out to me on the days I feel like crap!! LOL
Recap of yesterday - SO came here but I mostly stayed away from him. Well, that is after Funch. LMAO. That's a new word I learned, BTW. I forgot about some books I bought out of the bargain bin when I was in Florida...lol...one was about sex. Found it the other day and read some of it. This was a word I'd never heard of before....along the lines of a "nooner". LOL So, GH, BI43 - don't hate me too much.
Anyway, afterwards, I made him get out of bed and go mow the lawn (otherwise he would have slept the afternoon away). It was still cloudy out, but the rain had stopped...just long enough to get some of it started. I told him I would do it once the rain stopped, but he insisted he would. Ok, go for it, then. LOL. I tried to nap, then decided to go buy some flowers for the yard and do some errands. Headed out for a bit. When I got back, he was mostly done with the yardwork and had to do some work on his truck.
He's got this out of town wedding this weekend - something that's needling me - the fact he chose not to ask me to go with him - but then, again why would he?? {Little side note, don't think OW is going with him. Can't be sure, but I inadvertently heard (on another radio station) it's her college's graduation this Saturday. So, I don't think she'll be going with him - another reason this needles me that he chose not to ask me. Oh well.} and needs to get the truck done for the trip. Normally, I would pop down into the garage every now & again, seeing if he needed anything - yesterday, I didn't. Not even once. Stayed in the house, made dinner, called everyone when it was ready. We ate, he went back out, I stayed in the house.
Another thing, when he left, I noticed he didn't take his dj trailer. I thought that was odd. I was going to call/text him, like I have done in the past when I notice he's forgotten something. But i didn't. I'm not his mother. And I also thought, maybe I was wrong - maybe he didn't need the trailer, not likely - but possible. So, I let it go. Took a little restraint, but, hell, he's a big boy. And I CAN'T SOLVE HIS PROBLEMS! And, lo & behold, this morning I get an email that he not only forgot his trailer, but his suit as well. LMAO!! I sent him an email back, never once referencing that I had already realized the trailer part of it, mind you, but I teased that he forgot them on purpose just so he had to come out here. LOL Yeah, a little flirting, a little different way of how I would usually handle it.
I think I'm rambling on....yet I'm finding this therapeutic today. Thinking about the things I want to do....MY future. Independent of SO.
LOL, this is why I love reading your posts! Actually, despite what you may think of yourself, I really do believe you have it together....sure at times, things seem crazy and you awash in a sea of confusion, but you always seem to come out on top and I think that's the most important aspect of this.
Quote: I guess I'm finally coming around. I'm tired of dwelling on what went wrong. I know what went wrong. However, I will not pay for my mistakes of the past for the rest of my life. SO will miss out on a lot of good things. That is his choice. His choice has led me down this road...one of self-improvement and facing the things that are not as I'd like them to be (about myself). I understand that this is not something that should ever end....rather - a lifelong commitment, to myself, as well as whatever R I'm in.
I absolutely love this statement of self-reflection. It is about a lifelong committment to self-improvement. I guess I'm starting to really coming around to understanding this myself. I want to be a better person and while my mistakes of the past in my R may have led to where I am today, I'm willing to give up the guilt of those mistakes and try to forge ahead for myself. If that future includes my W, then fantastic, hopefully she too will come to a better understanding of R and of herself. If not, then I suppose I'll be a better person beacause of it.
LMAO @ Funch!
Quote: And I CAN'T SOLVE HIS PROBLEMS
No, you can't. Again, this is something I'm coming to terms with myself.
I'm very happy to read a positive post from you again NM! Get out there and enjoy that elusive sunshine!
All the best,
Rob
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
You are sounding good too, in general. Detached, moving forward....
I actually think you calling him on his crap is a good thing. One suggestion -- why not work on directness rather than controlling your facial expressions? It sounds like you are reaching a point where you can communicate directly without expectations rather than having to fake stuff so you aren't pursuing H. Directness is also a great way to avoid the need for sarcasm...
I'm a little confused by your acceptance of the one-night-a-week Dad. Is this something acceptable to you in an SO, H, or co-parent? This seems like a very unfair arrangement to me. Perhaps you should think about what a reasonable amount of participation as a parent from SO would be and ask for it. Either that, or forget getting a job and ask him to pay you as his nanny.
I suggest throwing out all your panties with holes and bras with blown underwires and getting some decent undergarments.
BTW, you don't really know what went wrong. You don't know why SO is so unhappy with his life. I tell you this because thinking you understand it all is a big mistake that you will want to avoid.
The more you do what you want to do and live in a way that works for you rather than trying to manipulate him and control his feelings and reactions, the better.
BTW, how is the sex outside of a monogomous committed R working for you? I hope it is OK, though I'm a little puzzled why you would choose to have casual sex with someone who is a source of emotional distress for you. And, no, I do not mean that sarcastically. If you have reached a point where you are happy with what you are getting without having expectations for more, then enjoy it. I just don't think it will really work for you very long.
A lunchtime fearF or comfortF is not likely to be good for you. If you simply wanted a nooner, that is different.
Just remember, you don't need to have sex to not abandon SO as you have done in the past. For one thing, you can simply tell him in a straightforward manner that you are done being one of the mares in the stable -- should he choose to pursue a different R with you, you are open to it, at least right now. But, he would have to respect your boundaries. For another thing, you have not abandoned and cannot abandon him in this case -- HE LEFT THE R.
Don't spin your wheels trying to fix mistakes in the past. You can't change them.
How good would you have felt getting sex when your W was going out later on to see OM? How do you think W would feel toward you later?
It is easy to make jokes and feel envious about this sort of thing, probably mostly as a defensive reaction against the great pain surrounding such things. But sex under such conditions is generally emotionally draining and not that great for anyone in the long term...
yes - the ever elusive sun has disappeared again...so here I am!
Quote: You are sounding good too, in general. Detached, moving forward....
Thank you....I'm trying. And once again, thanks for another thought-provoking, insightful response.....
Quote: I actually think you calling him on his crap is a good thing. One suggestion -- why not work on directness rather than controlling your facial expressions? It sounds like you are reaching a point where you can communicate directly without expectations rather than having to fake stuff so you aren't pursuing H. Directness is also a great way to avoid the need for sarcasm...
Yes - I was so stuck in the sarcastic-mode, that directness has been elusive. I'm working on it. And, yes, I'm getting tired of his crap. I'm sure that will start to come through a lot more in the future. I do have to work on my directness and communication.......
Quote: I'm a little confused by your acceptance of the one-night-a-week Dad. Is this something acceptable to you in an SO, H, or co-parent? This seems like a very unfair arrangement to me. Perhaps you should think about what a reasonable amount of participation as a parent from SO would be and ask for it. Either that, or forget getting a job and ask him to pay you as his nanny.
Funny you should that - just last week there was this article on how much a stay-at-home mom would make if she was paid for all she does. Yes - I emailed it to him. LOL
Seriously - I'm dealing with it. He works Tuesday, Thursday, Friday & Saturday nights. WTH choice do I have? He does come here Sundays, Mondays, Wednesdays. Sporadic Saturdays depending on his schedule. It *IS* an unfair arrangement - unfair to our kids. I'm looking at like this - IF I move back to my home state, a thought in the back of my mind, well, I'm going to be a single mom, wihtout him around too much except for every other weekend or whatever. Or - another really bad scenario - but what if he were to drop dead because he's working so damned much? I'll be without a co-parent then, that's for sure.
Right now, I'm still here, still trying to find a job....I admit to slacking off for other reasons I wont get into right now...but, I'm trying to deal with this one step at a time. I will not push him to take the kids. I repeat - I WILL NOT. WHY? You may ask next....well......
1. They are his kids too, he has the choice to see them or not to see them. What he loses out with them is HIS problem, not mine. In the long run, HE has to deal with his R with his kids and what he did/didn't do. If he wants to run away, bury himself in more & more work, well, then he can go right ahead. His loss. Yes, the kids loss, too. But I cannot force him to spend more time with them.
2. OW factor and his crap when he did take them and forced D7 to lie to me about OW being there. Should something like that happen again - I WILL take him to court. I won't EFF around with this. NO WAY - NO HOW. He blew it last time. Asking a 7 year old to lie to her mother. Yes, I still have some unresolved anger regarding this. I'm still mulling the whole thing over - when I allow myself. Because if the truth be known - it may very well be the deal breaker for me. He messed with our kids. That was wrong. And I don't really give a sh*t whether he's MLC, WA, or just a plain old liar & cheat. It was a big mistake. And until I can rationally resolve it, it's a no-go. Besides, with his work schedule, it really is a no-go. He painted himself into a corner (purposely???) by taking on Saturday nights. Once again - his loss.
Quote: I suggest throwing out all your panties with holes and bras with blown underwires and getting some decent undergarments.
Once again - ironic. I wrote a list of 180's last night. At the top - RED BRA/PANTIES! LMAO
Quote: BTW, how is the sex outside of a monogomous committed R working for you? I hope it is OK, though I'm a little puzzled why you would choose to have casual sex with someone who is a source of emotional distress for you. And, no, I do not mean that sarcastically. If you have reached a point where you are happy with what you are getting without having expectations for more, then enjoy it. I just don't think it will really work for you very long.
A lunchtime fearF or comfortF is not likely to be good for you. If you simply wanted a nooner, that is different.
Just remember, you don't need to have sex to not abandon SO as you have done in the past. For one thing, you can simply tell him in a straightforward manner that you are done being one of the mares in the stable -- should he choose to pursue a different R with you, you are open to it, at least right now. But, he would have to respect your boundaries. For another thing, you have not abandoned and cannot abandon him in this case -- HE LEFT THE R.
Yes, I know. The sex thing has always been an issue of debate for me. However, I think as I get stronger, more self-confident, get my sh*t together, I'll be able to make a better decision on this. Right now - no, I DON'T have any other expectations from him. I'm not going to win him back with sex - yet, there really seems to be an incredible openess between us there. I don't know how to explain. It could be that he's just getting his rocks off. But I don't think so. And, while I'm not exactly "happy" with just sex....I still take it as a positive that he wants to sleep with me. Look around - how many others aren't sleeping together? Can I also say that I'm also learning things about myself (and him) in the bedroom as well? I've been wanting to post about this, yet have held off. Don't know if this is the proper forum for it or not...lol. Who the hell knows - maybe "I" am using HIM to discover my sexual self. Would that make me just as bad as him? Some of it correlates to an R outside the bedroom as well.
Then again, maybe subconsciously I'm afraid of cutting that last "tie". I don't know. However, I AM sure that once I'm ready to do it, I will. I do know that much about myself. In the meantime, as I "fix" myself in others ways, I'm just going to ride this train until I feel like getting off. Puns definitely intended.
PS....RE: GH & others...I think it was merely tongue in cheek. I was going to post that I'd rather be where GH is in his R....but I think it was just light-hearted joking more than anything else.
You know, OT, I have almost posted, actually, have typed it out many times and then deleted it, about how it seems like the only sitches where the WAS still has sex with their LBS is when it's an WAH. Wonder why that is (I have my theories...)?
Anyway, I don't think I would have liked that much at all. Sure, like NM and others, I may have done it purely out of desire for sex but to say I would not have expectations is likely me kidding myself. I think that if my W were to have ML with me in the midst of all this, I would have been terribly confused and probably less able to detach, etc.
Luckily for me, as with most WAW, my W seems unable to be "doing" (allegedly...dunno anymore) both of us at the same time...er...not the same time, but you get my drift.
OT, the answer in short, is I would not have felt good about it, but I may have done it anyway. Regret is 20/20...
yeah, I know it was light-hearted joking... the problem is that this area is so hard to take a real look at that people cover their reactions by refusing to look at them... you and GH included... it is easier to laugh than cry... and sure, sometimes it is even a better idea, but don't lose site of yourself.
Sex when you want to ML doesn't feel good, but it is easy to pretend it does. It sounds to me as though you are using it to feel connected to SO and have him meet your emotional needs in some way. It may not be good for you to be having him be a source of your emotional well-being right now. Then again, maybe you are really in a place where you can actively choose to take this risk for your own reasons in your own interest without any expectations...
BTW, not to sound harsh, but ongoing sex is nothing special. Plenty of people here have done it, though most often it is, as in your case, with a WAH and an LBW. You could also ask yourself how many people have much more of an R along other dimensions that you don't have with SO -- a business R, a best friend R, a very active co-parenting R... Most people have some fraction of an R with a WA, your fraction just happens to be sexual, which is a lot more risky for you along several dimensions than many of the other fractions you could have been left with. The problem that happens with many of these fractions of Rs is that all they serve to do is to make the WA comfortable as they are able to maintain that part of the R that is most important to them as long as they need it until they finally also wean off that fraction. I don't know of any LBSs who are choosing which fractions they settle for, after all.
I expect you may think I'm being mean. But, your response to me suggests that you are wanting/expecting alot more from this sex than casual sex with someone who is keeping his options wide open with other women and who has done nothing to suggest he is any more committed to you today than two months ago.
Re the childcare thing, most fathers work five days a week and still see their kids everyday. I'm glad he is at least seeing them more than once a week, which is the impression I had.
Re the OW and the kids -- I'm not sure what you think a court would do. They are his children. Introducing them to his friends is not illegal. I'd think about all you can do here is settle on what your behavior will be if he does XYZ and share this boundary directly with him.
LOL, GH, crossposting, I just made the same claim...
You know, OT, I have almost posted, actually, have typed it out many times and then deleted it, about how it seems like the only sitches where the WAS still has sex with their LBS is when it's an WAH.
Yes, well, women really do use sex to feel loved and get men to love them, so LBWs are scared to cut off the WAH.
Just like LBHs continue to financially support WAWs through their As, including ultimately paying A related expenses. Men provide for women to feel loved and to get women to love them. They are scared to cut off the WAW.
F$%^*!$$!.) 
Oh well.} and needs to get the truck done for the trip. Normally, I would pop down into the garage every now & again, seeing if he needed anything - yesterday, I didn't. Not even once. Stayed in the house, made dinner, called everyone when it was ready. We ate, he went back out, I stayed in the house. 
