Ah, I didn't know all that other history. Things make more sense now. He doesn't act like a man who has been in a solid, monogomous, long-term R for a decade... But, he really hasn't been, with the breakups and the two As...
You sound good, BTW.
Now, if he does get of the fence and recommit, be ready for an avalanche of resentment and anger on your part. You've been sending them both to the side for a long time, along with your own needs. Michelle talks about this when she discusses what to expect during reconcilliation.
Anyway, it is perfectly normal to feel more anger and impatience as you get closer to reconcilliation. After all, no one wants to suppress their important emotions and needs forever.
Anyway, it is perfectly normal to feel more anger and impatience as you get closer to reconcilliation. After all, no one wants to suppress their important emotions and needs forever.
Amen to this OT. I know first hand how impatient (see yesterday morning) and angry we can get when things SEEM to be moving towards real reconciliation.
NM, I am glad you seem to have such a great outlook on this. I think, and it's just my opinion of course, that you SERIOUSLY yet lovingly detaching from him and "moving on" with you life will do wonders for HIS outlook.
Ditto on what the others said NM, you're doing a great job!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
I wish I could see whatever it is you all are seeing because I'm really having difficulties the last few days. I really need to read over the book again, but I keep putting it off. I put it off because when I read it, it makes me hopeful. And I don't feel like being hopeful.
I just can't deal with all the untruthfulness. I know, I know, it's isn't something I should expect with OW involved. And I don't "expect" it. I know that I need to continue to act as if. It' so hard when he's telling me one thing and then doing something else.
For instance, something I remembered from the other day - he says cryptic things about us. How he thinks about me all the time; how's he's thinking of me differently, he knows he has deep feelings for me, blah, blah, blah. He's started saying that his R with OW is not going well...now, before he never used to say anything other than it was wonderful. So telling me this is new territory we're covering...yet, my reaction is "then get the hell out of it". I mean, he obviously didn't have difficulties getting out of our R when it wasn't going good - what's the problem now? And that thinking gets me upset and mad and basically nowhere. Then I start thinking about even though he's saying one thing, the fact is - he's still involved with her. And that's by HIS choice. He could choose not to. Uck. I wish I could just shut my mind off.
I know how I should be...simply having difficulties with myself. Maybe it's the weather. It's been rainy and cold for the last several days and I'm tired of being cooped up. I guess I still haven't learned the true detachment trick.
Sorry to hear that you're feeling down....but don't get down too much on yourself. We all go through the cyclical feelings that you are experiencing, heck its even natural. The point is, in the overall grand scheme of things, you are doing wonderful. Getting bogged down trying to analyze what that WAS' are saying can only lead to further frustration and confusion. I go through the same things, in fact on Monday, my W gave me a nice card with some written thoughts in it. Very nice...but my over analytical mind kicks in and focuses on several key phrases and the fact that its not an "I love you" card (altough she does say it IN the card) but a thank you card. Okay, point is, I look at that and know its not what I expected of the "old" her, but it is something. It just also tells me that while things are improving, they are not just there yet. Patience.
So don't get too analytical about the cryptic stuff, it will only drive you insane! Also, recognize that while your SO hasn't obviously shut the OW out of his life, it is still progress when he acknowledges that there is trouble in paradise. Its a babystep in the right direction.
Look at yourself in the mirror and affirm that you a good, decent person deserving of love and respect. Find that PMA!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: How do you feel when he says things like this? How do you respond?
It varies....depending on my mood, I guess. If I'm feeling hopeful, I tend to be happy to hear it. When I'm pissy, I think, "Yeah, right. Then DO something about it".
Sometimes I ask for more clarification - if he says something really ambiguous. I don't want any misinterpretations on my part.
Sometimes I acknowledge what he's saying in a validating way.
Sometimes I don't acknowledge it (to him), rather just let him keep speaking or encourage him to continue talking, regardless of what he's saying.
Quote: I mean, he obviously didn't have difficulties getting out of our R when it wasn't going good - what's the problem now?
NM, I hate to see you in this mood but as Rob said, it happens. It's how you get out of it that is the important part.
Anyway, I'm not addressing the "serial" nature of his cheating that OT often suggests with this, but why do you think he didn't have difficulties getting out of your R? Do you think he just woke up one day and decided that things were not going good and took up with OW? No, this process of him thinking things were not going well took time to develop and then once they did, his idea that he could/should seek something outside the marriage also took time to develop.
I THINK you may be selling him a little short in the emotional attachment realm because he is clearly attached to OW, just as he at some point was to you (and still is BTW) so it may just take some more time for things to cool down there.
Look, like I said, if he turns out to be a serial cheater, then maybe all bets are off. I just can't help reading more about your sitch (you leaving with the kid, him wanting marriage and you squashing the idea) and not feeling that there is a lot of complicated issues driving this thing, not just general unhappiness by SO. There is probably years of resentment, pain, lack of trust and uncertainty that fuel BOTH of your emotions these days.
Looking in from the outside, it seems to me that because of a number of circumstances, you two have never really had a stable life together, one that fosters a sense of security and portends a future for a unified family.
I don't know what's going through SO's head right now but no matter WHAT's going through HIS head, what should be going through yours is finding that place where you can once again focus on you and stop trying to figure him out. Try to realize that just as in my sitch, things can get pretty confusing as the WAS looks like they are trying to come back. Your anger and frustration may reach an all time high as you try to reconcile your detachment with your need to talk to him and figure things out...like you would with someone you are in a real committed R with.
I know it sucks but you CAN pull out of this. You've done it before and each time, you learn a little more about yourself and what you are capable of. Do it again and learn what a strong, wonderful woman you are, and then get back to the business of building on that strength and "wonderfulness".
Quote: but why do you think he didn't have difficulties getting out of your R? Do you think he just woke up one day and decided that things were not going good and took up with OW? No, this process of him thinking things were not going well took time to develop and then once they did, his idea that he could/should seek something outside the marriage also took time to develop.
Yes, I know this...and I don't mean it in the way that it came across. I know it wasn't an easy thing for him to do. And, no, it wasn't that he woke up one day and said Hey, gonna end it with NM today. I know that. MY reactions to OW#1 probably led to the difference in how OW#2 was dealt with. Meaning, when we started "working" on things after OW#1, I told him that if I found out that he cheated on me without coming to me first, then I would be gone faster than he could say cheat.
And, once again, I "knew" instantly, on the 1st day he saw OW#2 - and confronted him about it. (This is why I am pretty certain this isn't a serial cheat thing. Even now that it's been on my mind, I try and look back and find something - anything that says he's been cheating all along, and can't. With these 2 exceptions.) In all the wrong ways, I can see now. Regardless, about 2-3 weeks of hell followed, with me being Super-bitch and screaming, crying, blah,blah (mixed in with the pressures of our house closing which we didn't even know was going to close until an hour into the actual closing!!!!) - it was really a bad, bad scene.
It was then that he came "clean" with me about OW#2. And honestly, I told him to go if he was that unhappy. But even from the beginning - even THEN - he kept saying that he didn't really want to. That's what has me so confused. Even at the start of his R with OW, he kept telling me it wasn't what he really wanted. But it was me that kept pushing him away.
Oh my, this is all so complicated and depressing. realizing just how much I pushed him away when he was telling me something different. I've just made myself even sadder.
Quote: I just can't help reading more about your sitch (you leaving with the kid, him wanting marriage and you squashing the idea) and not feeling that there is a lot of complicated issues driving this thing, not just general unhappiness by SO. There is probably years of resentment, pain, lack of trust and uncertainty that fuel BOTH of your emotions these days.
You said it better than I ever could. That's exactly it. We both RUN from trouble - that's quite clear from our history. And I know it. that's why my behavior to date, even before finding DB was a 180 on my behalf (without ever realizing it.) I said to myself - THIS IS IT. One way or the other (meaning whether we stay together or go our separate ways) this IS getting resolved. Our R is getting resolved. The issues ARE getting resolved. Know what I mean?
I can't accurately describe what I'm trying to say. Kind of like a Last Stand kind of thing. Maybe that's why I have so much trouble with detachment. To me, detachment equals goodbye and farewell. No working on it, no more one last chance, nothing. Over and out. But that's only MY definition. I know there's always the chance of "somewhere on down the road"...
Quote: Looking in from the outside, it seems to me that because of a number of circumstances, you two have never really had a stable life together, one that fosters a sense of security and portends a future for a unified family.
Amen to that....the first couple of years of constantly moving was difficult. When we moved here, we mutually decided to try and remain here (he wouldn't take any other job offers anywhere else unless they were way too good to be true) - mostly because of our D needing a stable life. Plus, the added bonus of being close to family. With this decided, things were great for 3-4 years. I mean, we both acknowledge this. We both thought "WE" were finally getting somewhere. Hence buying a house, another child, marriage - we were finally pulling it all together.
Does it make a difference that that is when he turned 30??? And that's when OW#1 came in to the picture? I keep remembering these little things...lol. His B-day is in May - I swear, at about February of that year, he started freaking out about how "old" he was going to be....then right after 30th b-day - like immediately, was OW#1. Then he started finding gray hairs at his temples - this really, really fueled his "old" feelings. He was always talking about it; always saying he doesn't want to get old.
That's why I wonder how much is MLC and how much is WA. I also read on another thread somewhere about an H in MLC who keeps burying himself in more & more work...SO is doing the same thing. He works so much - and keeps taking on more. Like if he just works and sleeps (and he's even said this) that it will all go away. Or at the least - he doesn't have to deal with it. He works; he sleeps; he works; he sleeps...on & on like a robot.
Quote: I know it sucks but you CAN pull out of this. You've done it before and each time, you learn a little more about yourself and what you are capable of. Do it again and learn what a strong, wonderful woman you are, and then get back to the business of building on that strength and "wonderfulness".
Thanks GH....It's nice to hear that about one's self, especially since I'm becoming aware of just how detrimental some of my reactions have been.
Detachment has nothing to do with ending an R. It is what is required for any really healthy R.
Plenty of people end Rs and NEVER detach. Go look in Surviving for the folks who can't let go of their bitterness and anger years after the fact, who think their ex-spouses are still "doing things" to hurt them years after a D by simply having a decent life with another person.
You cannot extend true compassion, friendship, or support to another person until you quit making anything about them about you as well. That is why detachment is important. You can't take care of you and your own happiness while you keep thinking your every action is about someone else. That is why detachment is important.
I think you may be both so scared that you will not want each other if you detach, that you will find there is nothing there. If so, this is interferring with moving to a place where a healthy R is even possible.
(BTW, in case you or GH missed it, I said that things make a lot more sense given your history, by which I meant my thoughts about the cheating stuff had changed. You weren't in a really long term stable R with unquestioned commitment and monogomy. My thoughts about how much SO has cheated had to do with him not acting like a man who had been in a really long term stable R with unquestioned commitment and monogamy. He seems to at ease in some ways with something different. Serial cheating would explain that. Then again, so does the simple fact of your history.)
With respect to pushing him away when he said he didn't want to go, this is really just a way of "leaving the state" again without having to move. In light of all this history, it is very important that you make it clear to him that there is a way back and what it requires. I'd suggest being very direct about this. I'm not sure if you ever said anything to him or not after your last post about him asking what he should do...
