I would absolutely love it if you just cut off the whole relationship with him, were upfront with the children about who ow was, and even tell SO taht you're telling the children.
I think you should not let him in your home anymore. Have only scheduled pick up times etc.
If he's as addicted to you as he says he is, and it sure seems like it. He will freak out and be done with ow in less than 2 weeks. ABsolutely. I mean he freaks out with you jsut saying you thought there was more between you than there was.
Please, don't let this drag on forever. Take out your knife and make a solid cut now. Then let him freak, on his own. Let him get rid of ow, let him grieve, let him face his issues, and then let him start working on the M with you.
You have showed him that even though the past R wasn't what he wanted, you are willing and able to change and improve it. You have proven yourself. He knows this. Now cut him off. Completely, hwile you still have any power, self-respect and respect from him.
Love must be tough! Have you read this? And by the way, I do think my advice is Dbusting, because I want him to face his issues and you to be in a healthy R together someday.
Quote: Honestly, NM, the weirdest thing about your sitch is that your SO seems to be desperately pursuing you, even as he continues the A.
Thank you - I thought I was the only one who thought this way about my sitch. And once again - someone has put my thoughts into better words than I could have.
This is really hard. I don't think SO fully comprehends the reasons why I need to keep contact to a minimum. He thinks I'm being mean, or it's some kind of payback or something. I kept a list of the contact he had with me - I was going to post them in detail, but I'll just post it this way: 9 phone calls; 7 emails. In 24 hours. Oh wait, just got another email while trying to post this!! LMAO
My biggest wonder is if I've shown him enough of the improved me, expressed things in a way that shows how we could find ways to fulfill what was missing in our R enough - before taking it away from him.
I think about one year ago - and how opposite things were then. He never completely cut off contact with me - but there wasn't the amount that there is today. OW was fulfilling everything for him at that time.
Is the tide turning - is he turning to me now for the EA (let alone PA) that he was once having with OW? Certainly feels that way at times. Will stopping contact squash what was seemingly growing again? This is my struggle. Continuing to give him the things he needs from me, while moving forward without him. Seems like a paradox.
I wonder too, how much of this is MLC, or just WA. I've read the MLC stuff so many times - he just doesn't fit into it all....yet, then again he does such a superb job of keeping everything inside, that he may have the characteristics and I just can't see them. It goes along with his whole radio show "act", he can be PO'd on the inside and smile & laugh with a listener at the same time because he's trained himself to do that....so, how does that "act" fit in to his personal life?
I really need this break, though. I need to really focus on where "I" want to go from here. Is it time to tell him what I want from him? Point blank, directly -take the chance? If he wants X with me, then I need Y first. It may be. That's something I have to think about as well.
Boundaries, goals...still trying to get them in order. I'm not allowing myself to think about too much right now. I've been staying away from the computer, even fromt his sight (sorry guys)...just to keep my mind in a happy place.
What I really want is to just get my house in order, get some home improvements done, get a better routine with the kids, get someone to commit to watching them for me on a bi-weekly basis so that I can start going out with friends more regularly. It's funny - because in none of this am I including SO. Have I finally got it right??? LOL
Quote: I really need this break, though. I need to really focus on where "I" want to go from here. Is it time to tell him what I want from him? Point blank, directly -take the chance? If he wants X with me, then I need Y first. It may be. That's something I have to think about as well.
NM, my first thought was "why not?" Of course, DB tells us no R talks but this seems not to be so much of an R talk as you stating your needs and desires for the future. OT once told me (gee, I say that a lot) that I put too negative a spin on these kinds of things. She said, and I really embraced this idea, that it should be a POSITIVE thing to express to your spouse a vision for the future where you are both happy and have a wonderful, vibrant marriage. The statement of that vision should be happy and full of energy, not sad and draining as I think you and I think of it as. We think of any talk like that as being full of fear, anger, resentment and other negative feelings. It doesn't have to be.
I think you could state your needs/desires in a positive way by framing them it a "I want" statement. You could first just tell him flat out that you need a break from all this but that your ultimate desire ("I want us to...") is to have a marriage where you get xxx from him and give xxx to him. You want happiness, security, love and affection, etc, etc. You ARE still committed to making things work but you want to make sure that the path you are on leads to happiness and getting your needs met as well as HIS happiness and meeting HIS needs.
I don't really know if it's a good idea (and I truly mean that, I just don't know) to have that talk, but it's a good thing to even start to think about what you are going to do/say in a positive light rather than this doom and gloom thing you have to DO to your SO.
Oh, and don't worry about not visiting Negative-ville as much. We understand...
It's not so much my being worried about putting a negative spin on the wants/needs talk - I more concerned that it's not the "right" time yet.
I've always been backwards, so I don't think of it so much as a doom & gloom thing - more so the timing of things and whether or not he's open to that kind of discussion. I mean, I really have no idea where "we" are at...all the mixed signals and all that he sends my way. I mean, I don't want to start talking about "our" future together if he's still with OW...know what I mean?
It may very well come to that....The more I think about it, it probably will. I need to state what I want. He can decide if he's willing to give it or not.
So, I guess that's the next thing I have to work on....yeah, yeah - after I visit Margarita-ville!!!
Quote: I don't think SO fully comprehends the reasons why I need to keep contact to a minimum. He thinks I'm being mean, or it's some kind of payback or something.
I would very pleasantly tell him that you aren't going to live the same life anymore, that you aren't satisfied with the situation and aren't going to continue in a situation where you get half of his heart and his love. Tell him this in a very loving way, and yes, I think you can combine this with telling him what you want.
Quote: My biggest wonder is if I've shown him enough of the improved me, expressed things in a way that shows how we could find ways to fulfill what was missing in our R enough - before taking it away from him.
Yes. I absolutely believe that have, and that he really wants it, but just needs some motivation to get there. What he really needs now is to respect you more, and that's the one thing that I think has been missing. If you demand your SO's respect, I think you'll see a change in him.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Oh my. Why are you trying to meet his needs? Is he meeting your needs? Why is this all about him?
What do YOU need right now? How is this contact good for YOU? If you want to hang around as one of his multiple girlfriends for awhile in case he picks you, then do it FOR YOU. If you need to take a break to properly respect yourself, then do it FOR YOU. Quit trying to manage his emotional health and control what he wants from you. You can't do it. SO is not going to forget you if you go dark. Rather, he is going to have to quit coasting and self-medicating with a group of women that includes you. He obviously cares about you. But, it is up to YOU to decide what it takes for him to keep you on the line. Right now, you are showing him that some simple attention is sufficient even in the face of lies about your children and continued deception including a PA. Why is that good enough for you?
I would suggest that you NOT have an R talk in which you shout your ongoing loyalty and commitment to him. A simple statement of your boundary is sufficient:
"I am not willing to be engaged in a romantic relationship with you outside of a monogomous relationship in which their is commitment to work on trust and to see if we have a shared future. To me , sex is for making love, and I am waiting until I know that is what I am doing with my P. I am not willing to be in a friendship with you outside of a friendship in which my need to make informed decisions is respected. This is a very difficult time for me, and I need to spend my emotional resources on friends who are truly returning friendship to me. I am NOT making these choices to hurt you. Finally, this is not about you or what you need or how you will react. I am making them because they are about what I want in my life and need to take care of myself right now. I am sorry if you are sad. I am too. Right now, we are co-parents, and I think we can do a great job at that. But, I need to respect both of us by acknowledging and accepting where you are with this and living my life accordingly. This is going to require that I protect my own space right now."
Also, I posted this link on PL's thread, but you may also want to take a look at the last post. It makes the point well about the problem with continuing to push for and act like an R is there that you P has made crystal clear is unwanted.
To sum up -- your SO has told you pretty directly that he is stringing you along just in case he wants you. His actions match that message. Except for lying about the kids and OW, he has done a pretty good job being honest with you about his lack of commitment and confusion. If this treatment is OK with you, then maintain the status quo. BUT, accept that you are choosing to be one of multiple GFs rather than his SO. He has done his part here. He is not victimizing you by seeing OW, you are choosing to be one of many.
If this is NOT OK with you, then stop doing it.
Figure out what your boundaries are. Stick to them. Share them with him if you must, but do not get into a big R talk about an R that is past or an R that is yet to happen.
Remember, like NM said, you get what you settle for.
You are worth a whole lot more than you are giving yourself. Take good care this week and STOP trying to protect him from the consequences of his own decisions until "he comes to his senses." He is an adult. Treat him as such.
Quote: Oh my. Why are you trying to meet his needs? Is he meeting your needs? Why is this all about him?
Ok - this is where I get confused.
The breakdown of the R was due to lack of certain needs he felt should have been present in our R, right? I thought that as one of the DBing techniques -we we're to figure out what was "missing" or what led to the breakdown of the R/M and try to work on those things. In my sitch - the biggest one (I think) was meeting his emotional needs.
And, NO, of course he's not meeting my needs. This IS all about him - right now, anyway. (Once again - another thing I thought was in DB - re: putting some of our needs on the shelf until such time they can be met in a healthy, mutually committed R/M.)
This is about WHY he left our R. He sought to fill the emotional vacancy he wasn't getting from me. And in order for him to feel more willing to work on things, shouldn't I be trying to fulfill what was lacking from that old R????
Quote: What do YOU need right now?
A break.
Quote: How is this contact good for YOU?
It's not.
Quote: If you want to hang around as one of his multiple girlfriends for awhile in case he picks you, then do it FOR YOU.
I don't. However, once again - I'm confused. RE: When we're aware there is OP. We should act as if they don't exist and work on the things we can.
Quote: Quit trying to manage his emotional health and control what he wants from you. You can't do it. SO is not going to forget you if you go dark. Rather, he is going to have to quit coasting and self-medicating with a group of women that includes you. He obviously cares about you. But, it is up to YOU to decide what it takes for him to keep you on the line. Right now, you are showing him that some simple attention is sufficient even in the face of lies about your children and continued deception including a PA. Why is that good enough for you?
It's not, and I really like the way you put this.
Quote: "I am not willing to be engaged in a romantic relationship with you outside of a monogomous relationship in which their is commitment to work on trust and to see if we have a shared future. To me , sex is for making love, and I am waiting until I know that is what I am doing with my P. I am not willing to be in a friendship with you outside of a friendship in which my need to make informed decisions is respected. This is a very difficult time for me, and I need to spend my emotional resources on friends who are truly returning friendship to me. I am NOT making these choices to hurt you. Finally, this is not about you or what you need or how you will react. I am making them because they are about what I want in my life and need to take care of myself right now. I am sorry if you are sad. I am too. Right now, we are co-parents, and I think we can do a great job at that. But, I need to respect both of us by acknowledging and accepting where you are with this and living my life accordingly. This is going to require that I protect my own space right now."
I REALLY like this. I will probably use it, word for word!!!
I will check the link out that you referenced. Thank you.
I have more - however, I need some clarification about the things I asked (above).
NM, there are a couple of DB principles that I think you should keep in mind. One is that you want to stop going down cheeseless tunnels. What you've been doing (to me) doesn't seem to have been working.
The other principle is to experiment and monitor results. You need a 180. Why don't you try going dark for a couple of weeks and see what happens?
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
I don't think anyone other then yourself can tell you if now would be a good time to have a relationship talk go dark or stay open. You have to do what you feel is right to get your relationship work. DBing is just a guideline to try to help us. There are parts that work for one and parts that don't. Those same parts that work for you may not work for me in my sitch and like wise. Every individual person has to use there own judgement.
Let me ask you what do you think all this additional contact from So means? Do you feel it is helping your relationship and communication with SO as a whole? Do you want to stop speaking with SO as often? If you cut down on the amount of contact with SO do you think it will help or hurt your relationship?
I will have to say that I do agree you need to find someone to keep your kids on a more frequent basis so you yourself can do some outside things that are more adult based to keep yourself interesting and fufilled.
