Erin, you hit on something that I don't articulate NEARLY enough and may not have even been that conscious of until reading that last post.
Quote: You will know when he is done with her, because he will change with you - in particular, goal #2 will come to fruition.
This is exactly how I have avoided snooping in my sitch. I figured she would change her ways towards me when the OM was going, going, going, gone, and it happened. Thank you for saying the obvious.
Look Mama, lies are lies but I realize that we have to accept SO much grey area in all this. Hell, most of us USED to think that cheating was a black/white issue. Either you were pure evil and you cheated or you were a good, committed partner and did not. We now know it's a little more complex. That's why I can say that I agree with Erin. You snoop to back up his claims that things are "over" between them. I submit that he may lie and tell you this or that, but instead of his intent being to deceive you in order to continue the affair, he may be lying to spare you unnecessary grief over something that will LOOK like something it's not. Am I saying it's ok for him to lie? Hell no, but like the A itself, I think telling lies about the sitch is something they have to ween off of slowly. I think that in this case, or in my case, intent plays a part in how I view this.
I think that as we repair our M's, there is actually MORE incentive for them to lie considering they now have this rebuilding process at stake on top of all the other deeper seeded reasons they cultivated over the time of the A. They now care about our feelings again and they probably feel that being open and honest about, say, calling the OW to tell her to f-off is not something that would go over well, so they just don't tell us or lie. Shades of grey for sure.
In the end, to move forward with our R's, they will HAVE to start to be open and honest. For now, I accept that, say, if OM calls W, she may not tell me. I don't like it, but I am not going to snoop to find out if he did. What does that solve? NOW, if I notice my W seeming to change her behavior again and going back to doing/saying the same things she did when the A was still going, then maybe I feel the pressure to do that. I'll admit to feeling that pressure last night when she went to "girls night out". I resisted because she already told me he still tries to call all the time. Looking on her phone would only confirm that.
In your case Mama, you said they work together. Eventually either you will have to accept that they have contact, she will have to get another job OR he will have to get another job.
Sorry to go off on a tangent based on a tiny part of your post. Blame it on Erin.
Quote: You snoop to back up his claims that things are "over" between them. I submit that he may lie and tell you this or that, but instead of his intent being to deceive you in order to continue the affair, he may be lying to spare you unnecessary grief over something that will LOOK like something it's not.
That could be why he keeps telling me "it's not what you think it is". He has given me enough indications (things I haven't even posted) to show me that he has no intention of leaving. So I will have to learn to back off a little and let him deal with OW as he sees fit. Again, I am not his mother and cannot tell him who he can or cannot talk to. Since they work together maybe they are just talking about work related stuff OR since he really is/was a sweet guy he could be just letting her down easy by trying to be her friend. Who knows...I'll continue to do what I have been doing and just take each day as it comes.
Mama: I am working through the same thing, but over a lot shorter course. Even though it's only been a VERY short while, H mentioned in passing after C on Monday (after I asked him how the OW was doing, very casually) that he and she have only rarely been talking. Hope springs eternal... And with it come so many shades of grey.
Glad to be of service Mama. Well, as OT says, it's NOT ok for them to be managing these people's emotions but I never suggested that it need be a permanent situation. Your H's sitch is similar to a lot of people's in that he works with OW. I know a lot of books and "experts" say that extreme measures need to be taken to ensure NO contact, like moving to another state, getting a different job, etc. I think those things CAN be useful but not when the cheater is still not 100% committed to the M again. Once he is, then I think it's more likely he will see the error in trying to keep this woman happy while he goes back to you. You also have the chance that what happened in my case will happen in yours; the OP turns psycho and totally turns H off. I don't think this is a good reason in the beginning for them to come back to us, but since your H is already making the in-roads, then a little push from a crazy woman may help a bit. Anyway, like I said, there are grey areas and it's up to you to either accept and DB through it or set a boundary and enforce it. Make your choice, as you have, and then just accept the outcome. I think you'll be fine.
... either accept and DB through it or set a boundary and enforce it.
Why would you think these two things are at odds? DBing is about respecting yourself and being responsible for your own choices and happiness. It requires setting and enforcing boundaries. A boundary can be drawn on either side of the "still taking phone calls" line, you know, lol...
Quote: A boundary can be drawn on either side of the "still taking phone calls" line, you know, lol...
OT, can you elaborate on this as I am not sure what you mean.
More journaling, last night we sat out on the front porch and talked, (Not about our R) but about a lot of things. It was a real back and forth conversation. It felt really good. Later in the evening we are talking about my H's job. He has an opportunity to take a different position so we were weighing the pros and cons. He just can't decide. I said that while listening to him it reminded me of our situation. He can stay in his current position that is stable, dependable and he can count on getting the hours he needs or he can take the new position that may offer more variety and excitement but he may not get all hours he wants. I said our M is like the stable, dependable position and the new position would be like leaving for unchartered waters. He said not to compare the two and that he wasn't going anywhere, he was staying in our marriage. There was much more to the conversation but I don't want to bore you all. In the end he asked me to sleep in our room again then pulled me to him and hugged me and told me how much he appreciated me talking to him about things. I felt really supportive and loving!
Good for you! I'm glad to see you feeling a little more positively about things, and it's great to hear about a few happy moments.
Maybe this sort of evening qualifies towards Goals 3 and part of 4??
Here's wishing you more of those nice, cuddly, summer evenings!!
Poor choice of words on my part. I know DB encompasses boundaries. I should have just said define where your boundaries are and then stick to it. Either choose to accept or not and then own that decision.
Are there any LBS out there that are taking medication for their mood swings. Although I try to stay happy and positive I have my occasionally down days. These could do alot with my age and hormones (43) but mostly I think it is due to the unstability in my marriage.
H called on his way home from work yesterday. I was feeling a little down. There were 9 kids at my house (3 were mine) and I was feeling unappreciated by the parents of two of the kids I watch. I asked for a raise after watching their kids for 2 years and now they are quitting because of it. I told my H it makes me feel bad like I'm not doing a good job and said I was also a little sad about us. He told me to cheer up and snap out of it. Then when he came I got the silent treatment. I asked him what was wrong and he said he didn't want to come home to me and my moods. Later we got into a fight. I tried to explain my moods are due to my pain and our lack of a R. He said yesterday was such a good day and as far as he thought we were working on our R. He said he can't take it anymore, why can't I just be happy and stop psycho analyzing everything. So, unfortunately I just undid all the good DB'ing that I have been doing in the past couple of weeks. Back to square one AGAIN! Ugh!
So...should I speak to someone about prescribing me something to even out my moods
Really you are coming up against that crappy realization that we are usually far beyond our spouses in figuring out all the "psycho" stuff. It's hard when we get to the point where we are trying to work all this out and they are still stuck in that mode where they are either looking to us for their happiness or being pulled down by our moods. Of course WE have just spend weeks/months/years trying to learn NOT to do those things and yet those very things are threatening to harm out new relationship. The fact is that while WE have changed, it's likely that they have not, or at least changed in the way they approach their own happiness.
I think when they pursue the A, they fully realize that they need to be happy, aren't in the M, and for whatever reason, know that this will "make them happy". On one hand, they ARE taking steps to ensure their own happiness, but on the other hand they are still putting their eggs into someone else's' basket. When they return to us, I think they feel like doing so means giving up that "selfish" idea of their own happiness and also their responsibility to ensure it.
Enter our moods, anger, whatever. They see this and then all of a sudden remember how they didn't like the M before. They begin to resent the R, us and their decision rather than realizing that our negative emotions should NOT necessarily cause them to feel bad.
This is all EXTREME psychoanalysis but I am just saying that it seems like your H needs a little work on understanding the woman in his life and her need to vent sometimes without him "fixing" her or being pulled down by her. He needs to understand your need for his strength, validation and support. Unfortunately, those are taught in LBS 202 and I don't even know if they are courses offered in the school of WAS...lol.
