Quote: Again, with ALL DUE RESPECT (and I mean that) to your feelings right now, which are totally natural and understandable, this is NOT about you. This is not about you or how he respects or doesn't respect you or your marriage. This about him and something he felt he wanted/needed to do for himself. Most books on the subject will tell you the same thing. While an affair hurts deeper than most anything else, in the end, it is only part of the problem that needs to be addressed if and when a marriage is to survive it.
Now, with all due respect, I have to disacree. Marriage is made of two people, so it has everything to do with me and with us.
Quote: This about him and something he felt he wanted/needed to do for himself.
That is the problem, he was looking at this as his life and not our life. He was thinking of himself only and not me or us. The affair is the problem, alright, but I know that the fact that he thought that he could allow himself to have an affair is even a bigger problem.
Quote: The more we cling to this idea that somehow it was the ultimate betrayal, the harder it is to get to a place where we can forgive and move on, either with repairing the damaged marriage OR alone to pursue a new life without H.
But it is the ULTIMATE betrayal. I know that I will have to get passed these emotions in order for me to move on. I know that. But it is all still too raw to even think about being OK one day.
Quote: As for Love not hurting others, I think your heart is in the right place with that idea but it's a little naive. Love can hurt more than anything else I know of.
I have to respectfully disagree. The true definition of LOVE is to cover someone else's shortcomings, love them inspite of the wrong they have done, forsee someone's needs and fullfill them. That is love. And that is not naive. Like I said before, I know that marriage requires a lot of hard work, and I do not believe that we are to wake up feeling "in love" every day--I know that love is a decision that we make, but I know that to love is not the same as to get out there looking for something that can demolish your spouse emotionally. Wounds do heal over time, but scars sure do remain.
Quote: I don't mean to play semantics games with you but I think you are dangerously close to thinking of love in the idyllic way most WAS's do, as this blissful state of everlasting happiness. Love in marriage love is simply not that. It is more about mutual desire and ability to meet each other's needs than a euphoric state of being.
Just like I said before, I do not believe that being loved is never having a problem, but I do believe that to love is to look for your spouse's best interest in everything. And I always ask only for what I am willing to give.
Quote: So says you. You paint a WONDERFUL picture of a somewhat perfect marriage, the kind which, if truly that good for BOTH of you, people rarely stray from.
So say I and so says he. I always took the time to ask him about how he wanted to be loved, I observed him so that I would not try to speak to him in my "language" that he might not understand. And just like you said, that even in great marriages, that are still some that will stray away from it.
Quote: What I am saying is that how SURE are you that things were really that good for him?
He said that they were great. He, even now, when we talk about this or when we are in counceling, when he has a chance to be honest, says the same thing over and over again. I kept asking him before and after this happened if it was something that I did or did not do. Trust me, if I saw that I did something to drive him away from me, which still does not give him an excuse to cheat, I would live up to take the responsibility for it.
Quote: know YOU felt like you did everything right, but often we do the things in a loving relationship that we want done to us, often without really understanding that what seems loving and wonderful to us is not necessarily to our partner. One of the hardest things to do in a relationship is to understand our partner so much that we do for them what THEY need/want, not what WE need/want. In turn, communicating OUR needs is equally important.
That is the reason I normally asked him if what I do make sense or was necessary, so that I would not do things that drove him mad rather than made him happy.
Quote: Lets just say that maybe things were not as you think they were. It doesn't let him off the hook in any way but IF you are ever to get to the point where you reconcile, and I'm not saying you want to or will, then you will have to start looking at yourself AND the marriage to see what maybe could be done better.
I know what could be better--him being faithful could be better. I have looked at myself, tried to see if I could blame myself for this, but alas! I can't and won't.
Quote: Me neither. I was and am truly committed to my w. So much so that it made her feel like she was bearing the full weight of the responsibility to make me happy. I focused my entire life on this woman. I gave her everything I had to give and she took all that and gave it to another man! Well, you know what, I gave her all I wanted to give, and in the end, it seems like I smothered her. I was totally codependent and relied on her for my entire emotional well-being. When I started to not be as happy, of course that reflected on her and my attitude changed towards her. Even though she NEVER showed how much this emotional burden weighed on her, it did to the point where she had to get away. Well, she did, into the arms of another man.
I did not depend on my husband to be to sole source of my happiness. I was strong, independent, knew what I wanted from life and I knew that I could get there by myself. However, when I decided that I do want to join my life with his I had to change me. I had to allow him to be my happiness and to relinquish my self-reliance, so that he would feel that he is needed and wanted. I did not smother him with love, but sure lavished him with it--why would I get married then, if I did not want to make him a part of my life and love and need him? The purpose of marriage is to be one--one life, one purpose. I was there for him to be what he wanted to be and I expected him to do the same for me.
Quote: From all this I get that you SEEM to be almost as upset at the social embarrassment you are facing as the personal trauma it represents.
Almost, but not quite. And just like I said, I know that I should not feel shame, but I do. I guess it's a part of my emotional makeup.
Quote: This is as harsh as I get...stop playing the victim in all this. It DIDN'T just "happen" to you. The longer you keep thinking that way, the more things will "happen" to you. Thinking like that makes it impossible to think you can affect the future course of your marriage and R with H should you decide you want to because you feel powerless to do so. I AM NOT blaming you for what happened, merely making you take responsibility for being in a marriage that for whatever reason is not working right now. Blame it all on the affair, whatever, but at the end of the day you will be left with either a repaired marriage or a failed one, both outcomes you will have played a significant role in.
I am not playing the victim--because I know that I am at this point. And I will not be ready to say otherwise, until I am ready. What is my responsibility being a part of a marriage that failed--the fact that I married the man that cheated on me. I take that responsibility. That is the reason I do not blame God or anyone else--only my H. And it upsets me now that I feel that I am the one who will have to make the decision whether we try to repair this--and, yes, I am saying "we", or go separate ways.
Regardless, GH, thanks for your effort trying to help me. I appreciate it.
Quote: Um, well, if you take NO blame for this, or at least understand that things may not have been as perfect as you describe them, then it will be hard to ever see your H as anything but a heartless, disrespectful monster, who could NEVER be worthy of your love or the perfect marriage you created for him.
I did not create a perfect marriage--we worked on it together. We created it. And I do see my H as "a heartless, disrespectful monster" at the moment when he made the decision to cheat on me. I know that he is remorseful now, but at that very moment he was not.
Quote: On the inside she is miserable and wants to be a messy, B student who has time for hanging out with friends and "being a kid".
I never required perfection and my H was allowed to be a "messy B student".
Quote: Like I said, you may be perfectly correct in your assessment of all this, and I would suspect that due to the way H is reacting to you knowing about the A, that you are either 90% correct in your feeling that the marriage was near perfect and he has realized what he has lost, and he's now desperate to get it back, OR he is still reacting in that "don't want to let Now_Broken down" way, and thus ignoring the reasons why he strayed in the first place.
I never asked him to be so perfect that he never lets me down, because he had in many ways before and it WAS Ok, because he is human. And I had asked him this time to be honest enough not to do anything to try to impress me so that I would stay. I always told him that if he tries to live in a specific way only because of me he might eventually get tired and fail, I always encouraged him to make changes first of all because of himself, and then for me. I hope that helps you to see that I am not trying to avoid taking my responsibility in it.
Quote: I think I should say that of course, there are men and women who would stray from being God's husband or wife just "because". There are people for whom relationships, no matter how good, have no holding power. I think you and I both know that our H and W are NOT those people.
I thought that he was not one of those people, but now I highly question it. I thought that I knew the man I married, but it turns out I lived with a stranger.
I guess I will have to ask his opinion about this topic tonight.
Ok, well, then you don't really need much help then. It seems like you are confident, strong and really have a clear understanding of what was, what is and all is left to decide is what will be. If it is truly that cut and dried to you, which it could very well be, then just give yourself time to think this through and I'm sure you'll decide what's best for both of you.
now_broken, let me add a slightly different perspective to what GH posted. You are correct in saying that you DO NOT bear any responsibility for your H's decision to cheat. That decision was his and his alone.
At the same point in my sitch I would likely have wanted to punch anyone in the mouth for saying anything different.
What I will say is that at some point, if you truly love your H, you will start to see past your own hurt and anger just a little bit and have compassion on him. You will realize that he is tormented by his sin and its effect on you. You will realize that this would not have happened if there were not issues in his past or in your marriage (or both) that needed to be dealt with. If you are honest, you will realize that there were things that you did that damaged your relationship that contributed to allowing this to happen. If you decide that you want to rebuild your marriage stronger than it was before, you will ultimately need to examine those things and fix them, even though it now feels that he should have to do all of the fixing.
I will also tell you that the fastest way out of the intense pain that you feel is the path of forgiveness. When I forgave my W, days after she told me, the anger and hurt melted away and I was able to focus just on loving her. We've been through a lot worse since then (she went back to the OM and lived with him), but God has richly blessed my decision to forgive her.
Ultimately, you cannot control your H. You can only control yourself. In many ways, this is the greatest challenge in your life. How are you going to respond?
Take care.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
