I must be the oddball here. What else is new! I have been out of the M home for almost two years, it was sold over a year ago and I avoid driving by like the plague. A couple of times my old neighbor has told me about all the improvements the new owners are making and what it looks like now, etc. and I don't wish them any ill will but I just don't want to hear about it. I guess I'm still attached to it and what I thought it would be for me and STBXH in the future.
Just saw the ages of you and your H and you are so close in age to me and H that it is spooky. You certainly would think that by the time a man is in his 60's he would know what he wants out of life and be ready to settle down. His family is so upset with him. I am still very close friends with his mom, his sister and his D's and they can't figure out what is wrong with him.
They are not as lucky as me and have the forum to come to for information and support. It has been my lifeline and kept sane during the last 7 months. I am glad to see some of the more experienced MLC spouses posting here for us to gain info from their journeys.
I hope you will keep posting here as we all need your insight and help. Divorce does not mean you should leave us as divorce is just a piece of paper, an expensive paper that is paid for emotions as well as money, but a piece of paper none the less.
I will post more later but there is church tonight so it porbably will not be until Friday night or the weekend.
You wrote "...h would take advice from a female friend about our marriage when she had never met me and only know h a few months" I do not think it is such a mystery that MLCers turn for advice to the most dimwitted, clueless types of people. People who have recovered from MLC say they were terribly confused. Considering that, it seems reasonable to me that they would seek out ONLY those who would not challenge them or try to make them feel guilty. (My H is taking advice from a 30 something, single guy who he works with, who finally, after years of loneliness, is dating an unstable, needy girl. 'shucks, those pearls of wisdom H is hearing have to be better than any thoughts from a pastor, shrink, counselor...or old best friend!
To me trying to apply DB principles is rather like what mom used to say, "if you can't say anything good, then don't say anything at all". I certainly can not validate someone who is acting like a idiot! I'll have to leave that to his "friends".
nlf
You must grow in patience when you meet with great wrongs, and they will then be powerless to vex your mind. ---Leonardo da Vinci
Quote: I wanted to ask if you'd be willing to share your thoughts and feelings, in hindsight, on choosing a collaborative divorce route, rather than digging in and contesting.
I doubt that my reasons for chosing a Collabrative Divorce will apply to others but here goes.
I went the collabrative route because, early on, I thought it might help get us back together. Knowing my H, I felt that if I and my atty became advesarial in a contested D, my husband would have responded by digging in his heels and being even more resolute towards D. (In hindsight, I was living in LaLa Land to think he would "snap out of this") I spent months teary-eyed with gobs of wet tissues wadded up in my hands at the four-way meetings. I just was not facing reality.
Although I went to my job without revealing much of my stress, privately I was very, very sad for about 12 months. And those divorce meetings really made things worse. It was only 2 months ago that I finally got a grip on myself and I'm now able to sit calmly through the meetings. So you see, my primary reason was not valid.
Divorce attnys and courts are all about $$ and the kids. Our sons are grown so that leaves the $$ issues. My H and I never really discussed money. We worried about it, but didn't talk much about it. It was a touchy issue because he had had some carrer reversals ( which, in hindsight, probably triggered MLC) and we did not talk much about those either. We did adjust our spending, but we did not plan and discuss where we would cut our lifestyle. We just endured. So collabrative D is really a continuation of the non-confrontational way we handled things in our marriage.
In hindsight, I think collabrative divorce allowed my H to postpone facing reality and the harder issues. If our d was a hard-fought battle, then he would be getting a picture of the hurt, anger etc. Wouldn't that be a step closer to the reality he has created? I think so.
If children are involved, I think collabrative is the only way to go. Because the couple and the attnys promise to work together in good faith. Having 4 people working in the kids best interest would be better than having the stronger of the attnys build a better case and win and thereby making the losing parent really end up in the losing position. Besides, I have to have faith that the two attnys involved would have seen enough tragedy with children that they would be able to offer some insight into creating the best situation.
Collabrative has been a longer process. If you suspect that your H might be up to hiding some assets or adjusting his income, he will have more time to accomplish that. So beware.
Early on I read, on this board, where someone said that once the bomb has dropped, one should get their D asap, because the financial sitch does not get any better over time. That has been true for me. On the other hand, I needed to go slowly because I was giving h time to return. Even after reading all about the Six Stages, and refecting how long ago he changed and was in Anger and then Denial, and now Replay and probably some Depression (a mere 5 years ), and even after reading everyone else's stories, I still could not just rush off and be Dark. I needed to know that I tried, and I waited; I did not turn and run.
It does take extra training for attnys to do collabrative. and they need to be willing to work together instead of opposing. So there may be better attnys working in this area because they need better skills. Just a Thought.
NLF
You must grow in patience when you meet with great wrongs, and they will then be powerless to vex your mind. ---Leonardo da Vinci
Thank you so much for sharing this so honestly and in so much detail. I can only imagine how awful those first mediation sessions--I can easily picture myself crying through them as well.
I think I am going to have to make this call fairly soon, and your sharing is very helpful. I have what I lovingly refer to as an "anti-divorce" divorce attorney. But he is "mature", quite experienced and comes recommended. I suspect my H's attorney is sharper and younger, but not as experienced.
Like you, my main concern is with giving H time to reconsider. Or at least to feel what it is he is doing. I am dragging my feet as subtly as I can, and have instructed my L to do likewise. I have heard the advice in several places that women do less well financially as time goes on. To be honest, the financial affairs are the least of my worries. I do have a S13 who is so opposed to a D. The conflict in our M was silent and S was shocked and very upset when we had to tell him H was moving out and wanted a D. And H has done this before, 21 years ago, persuading his 1st W of 11 years to collaborate so he could feel like it was a "we" decision. So I am shooting toward a middle ground, no upfront mediation, but only gentle contesting, making H do most of the dirty work of filing, making the first offer, and so forth.
Anyway, I don't want to clutter your thread with my ruminating, but it is helpful to me to hear your reasoning, and I thank you again.
One quick thought about finances. Even though it is not a concern of yours right now, how would you feel if you had to pay support to H? That is the "warning" my L has given me several times. That would be a difficult concept for me to accept. But apparently it does happen in 2 career families.
NLF
You must grow in patience when you meet with great wrongs, and they will then be powerless to vex your mind. ---Leonardo da Vinci
I've read and thought about it, sure. But he makes more than twice as much as I do right now, and the next time he moves, he may make three times as much. I can argue that my career suffered. So while I know it is a possiblity, not too likely. My L never even mentioned it; L says he thinks I can make a case for alimony cause of the 20 year marriage, even though I do make a good living.
I'm worn out, spent, and my body feels broken. To recap, after the offer on the home finally came together and after the buyer's home inspection, I became committed to move up the closing date to May 10 for a couple of reasons. H seems to have a hard time coming up with the mortgage payments lately (even though at other times he hints at all the business he is doing) so I thought that if I just put my head down and plow through it I should get out before the next mortgage payment. Boy did I underestimate both the amount of work and H commitment to help. He "needed 2 wks notice before he could schedule a time to come and help" clean out HIS garage, and HIS portion of the basement, not to mention the joint home maintenance/garden type tools and equipment. He came once for 2 hours and then again for six hours. However both times he spent clearing out his "hobby items" and NOT the joint family items. During his first 2 hour visit, he said that he would come both the following Sat and Sun. It ended up that he came only on Sat leaving me with a hugh garage clean up--and it was heavy work.
My 85 year old mom and I have NEVER worked so hard, pretty much non-stop for 2 weeks. We were spending 15 hour days clearing out and packing and moving what we could. One night I checked on her after she had been in bed only 10 minutes and I feared she had died she was sleeping so soundly.
One night near the end of it and out of frustration, I left a VM for my attny, pretty much screaming into the phone that I was exhausted and that H had not helped, and that I wanted financial compensation for all my moms and my effort. (that felt good ) The next day I received a controlled anger kind of call from H stating that he would have been perfectly willing to help but needed that "two-week notice".
I could never get H to see my point of view and he wasn't about to start just then. HE was mad at me because I had not "communicated what needed to be done at the house before the closing" EARTH TO H: Everything needs to be moved out of the house before the closing!!
Leaving my house was sad. My mom was crying. I went back later and walked thru by myself and cried, not because I had to leave the house but that I've lost the future that I had pictured with my family and friends. And I sacrificed a great deal of myself to try to make things "normal" so that I could have the fulfillment of those dreams. The reality is that our sons instinctively knew (and withdrew) because things were not quite right with our relationship, and with their father.
I think that H's anger is a mask he is using at this time to cover the fact that we have just made a huge step towards the permanent dismantling of our family--selling the house.
I think that H's mom can get him riled up against me. (A few weeks ago, after we agreed on seperating " the household valuables" H called angrily demanding her Waterford crystal, something she had given me as a gift) I suspect that he had been with his mother that weekend. I ignored his request...lo and behold, he was not angry the next few times we talked)
My point about H's anger, is that I no longer care try to accomodate him. He has become a selfish man in these last 6 years and, if he were the least bit reflective, he would realize that. I am not detached from H; I am unleased. I plan on just "being still" for awhile, rebuilding my relationships with Ss and DILs and enjoying my life by myself and working on my career.
NLF
You must grow in patience when you meet with great wrongs, and they will then be powerless to vex your mind. ---Leonardo da Vinci
My heart aches for you and your mom. I went to the cemetary yesterday and put a hanging basket out for Mother's Day and had a talk with my mom. It would have been soo hard for her to see what is happening as both her and dad love H alot.
Take sometime today to treat your mom because you both deserve it. Have to go now as just thinking about this is making me cry.
), and even after reading everyone else's stories, I still could not just rush off and be Dark. I needed to know that I tried, and I waited; I did not turn and run.
) The next day I received a controlled anger kind of call from H stating that he would have been perfectly willing to help but needed that "two-week notice".