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hey Frank
an excellent post and I think this may just be your turning point
now you can be more relaxed - be you - and the stress and anxiety should begin to fall away

bj

Frank, EXCELLENT post, one I needed to read today. I really LOVE the way you handled that sitch. I have had cause to do similar things and in each case, the response was positive.

The point is that you CAN stand up for yourself without anger or defensiveness and that's what you did. You spoke your mind and in doing so, encouraged your W to as well.

I am really glad to hear your sitch is still improving.

GH

I really am on and off the boards lately. You see, all the energy I put into DB'ing and in the boards the past 7 months has worn me down. I"m behind in a lot of my business and personal work I want to do so I've been doing my best to focus on that.

Things with W are very much improved. I guess I could say I succeeded. "Another Divorce Busted". And I'm happy, I feel so much better to have my family whole again and to be out of the crappy life I was living before W left, and during the past 7 months.

W told me the other day that she wasn't going to leave again. She's content and see's a good life ahead. I feel like I should post some exciting story to 'db success stories' to inspire others.

But, I really don't feel like it. I think I am in the stage we end up in where we've gotten so used to not allowing ourselves to really feel, to really 'say' what we we've been wanting to say, to really be totally honest, that i've internalized so much hurt and anxiety, and I won't trust her completely yet.

I"m sure it takes time, and I don't think everyone ends up in this place during the DB 'success' part.

So what's it all about?

The other day she went to go visit her friend, the 'spiritual counselor in training'. She had been through some tough experience with a roommate from hell who she had to evict and she needed a friend, so W went to spend the day. This was kind of a surprise to me and I found myself feeling really angry that she was going to see her.

Unlike the past several months where W didn't really notice or care how I felt, she did notice I was not happy. She had to get going, and called me on her cell while she was driving.

I told her I have issues with Friend. I had helped her Friend make a massage video last summer, while the whole time Friend KNEW W was unhappy, wanted to get out of the marriage, because W wrote about her giving advice in her diary. Friend had told W that "maybe she had done all she was supposed to do with me and it was time to move on". This while she's acting like MY friend and I'm working hard to make her video for her.

This Friend also told me that even though W was pursuing OM that it was part of her 'growth' and 'path in life' and that if it hurt others, well that was part of our 'growth' too. In other words 'whatever you do is ok, it's all part of our growth'. She also gave W condoms, and took her to the airport to fly to see OM, which meant she knew her intentions when she went to go see him.

I told W this, and why I can't be friendly with someone who knew we had problems, who KNEW W wanted to get out months before it happened. Who ADVISED her that it was OK to leave her marriage because it was part of some greater spiritual destiny. Who encouraged her to find herself and that her leaving was part of MY life lesson too, and also the life lesson of our kids. YET she acted as if she was MY friend and used me to get her video made. Where is the 'love' and 'sprituality' in that kind of behavior?

W was quiet for a moment and then said that it probbaly wouldn't have mattered what Friend said or did during the affair - that in her state of mind she wouldn't have listened. But she understood how I felt and that she didn't really think much of this friends advice, but she was still a friend.

I said to her "Maybe you wouldn't have listened, but she was in a position to influence you and chose to give you approval and support while you were hurting us and running away to another man".

This is similar to the guy who runs the Hawaiian massage / spiritual retreats where W went several times over the past 3 years, and where she met OM in October - who turned out to be the most dangerous dark energy being she's ever met in her life.

Over the past 3 years the retreat facilitator (T) and many of the other 'teachers' who were also her friends, KNEW she was unhappy because she would share this in group sessions. But NOBODY ever said to her "You should get therapy for you two, a marriage and a family is an awful thing to break up"
But they had no trouble telling 'poor W' "If he's that bad you should leave him for your own sake". Yet NONE of them actually KNEW me. But they had no problem judging me and our marriage.

The facilitator, 'T' knew me a little, and had no problem asking me for help building up their website. But would he even tell ME that he is aware of problems, and would I like to talk?

These are people who basically get others to come to their retreats, open up their hearts and souls and get in touch with their inner selves, maybe even open old wounds. But after some of them get to some very difficult places in their emotional selves, they are not there to really support them after they have left to go home.

I wonder if this is common in the world of spiritual retreats or other 'find youself' type events when the person goes and gets into a very emotional place - then leaves with no counseling to follow up.

I told W that I felt, very betrayed by her friend, and disrespected by 'T" and his partner because he has been acting like WE are friends, yet he and his girlfriend / whatever / did NOTHING to help us before W had the affair, and very little when they saw she was pursuing OM, even though they knew he was a piece of SH*t from the retreat. Nothing. Yet they claim to be W's friends. And mine.

I told her that I felt like my calling is to go to these retreats and help the people who end up getting to their core issues, make them know that they don't have to destroy their lives. That running away to 'find yourself' or be with your newly discovered 'soulmate' isn't the answer. They can fix their lives if they will only try. If they will only have faith.

I told W I don't think that they intend to hurt people, it's an accidental side effect of their retreats for those who really ARE lost.

I can't - and won't - pretend any more. Too many of the people around W and I are worse off than we are, yet they represent themselves as being in 'higher places'.

I guess I was pretty strong about my feelings, this has been bottled up inside me for months. I told W all this, and she listened. She agreed that her friends are not realistic about their lives, and that they weren't any help for her during all this. She doesn't quite agree that they were part of the problem, not part of the solution.

But they were.

I remember back in October telling 'T' how pissed I was at him because he gave W 'permission' to leave me when he told her to 'do what ever she thinks she must do - be true to her heart'. I remember telling 'Friend' how I did not agree that it was OK for W to 'go find herself' at the expense of destroying our family, especially when I knew she had some realy deep core issues that needed resolving.

I told W that while these so called friends were supporting her in her path of self destruction there was nobody supporting me.

I have a lot of anger - and a lot of hurt. I'm not sure how we process what we've been suppressing while we've been DB'ing. How much do we actually tell our WAS about OUR trial? There are times when I want to just hand W my journal and say 'read this - here is how I felt when you told me you found the love of your life - the soulmate - and you were star crossed lovers'. Read some of the incredibly stupid things you did and said to me, to our kids. How hurtful it was at christmas time when you were thinking about OM, and wishing you were there, not here. The times I had to spend with D10, holding her while she just needed to cry because she missed you - even though you were right there physically but not there emotionally.

I read the 'success stories' on the DB board and they almost all say stuff like "We're committing to a renewed marriage! Oh! Oh! We're so in love now! We're inseperable! We're moving slowly but it's great!" and so on...

And then they stop posting. Except to occasionally be the 'super helper' on the board, the 'success' who knows all, tells all. Everyone begs for their advice.

I know, because I'm one of those people.

I saved my marriage, I healed my kids. My W is very loving now, she has some small barriers but she told me yesterday that she was 'here, and not going to leave again'. I enjoy her company, we spend more time together and it's all quality time. We'll be ok and our lives are becoming much better than they have been for a long time. I know she loves me. I can feel it. I know I love her. Most of the time I feel safe in the relationship. It's taking some time.

But I'm not going to post to the 'success stories'. Not right now. Because there's more to the story - it's only started a new chapter. It's not a success until we're all healed.

The "Piecing' forum is a good place to be, but it seems like there should be a section called 'healing and recovering your "self"'. When we DB, we repress a part of ourselves, we don't get needs met, and I think we get used to it. So we have trouble letting that part back out, and asking for what we need. And healing after all we've been through.

So, that's where I'm at. "Piecing my SELF back together while I repair my marriage."

It's taken me a couple weeks to realize that DB'ing isn't over. Even though as my counsellor says " I got what I wanted finally" it's still not finished. No more pats on the back for being so smart, strong, patient. This is just the next part of the Journey. It doesn't end when you have a reconciliation. It begins.

This is a little bit of a wild rambling posting, but it's been stuck inside me for a few days and I needed to get it out. Just because you've reached that point in your life where your marriage is being fixed finally, you can still break it again by holding on to the anger, hurt and resentment for the trial you have just been put through.

Please, be careful.

Bless you, Frank.
Thank you for being honest.

Amy

that was a really valuable post - thank you

Thank you Frank!

Great idea to have a thread about the healing of the LBS. I agree, w/o this healing there will always be a danger to the new R and the 'success'. But how can that be achieved w/o ruining what was worked for so hard????????????

LTA

Frank, though I'm at a really odd place right now, I feel exactly what you're saying. As the LBS, we have suppressed feelings of our M and our marital issues (pre-bomb) that we suppressed or learned to look at as 'unreal.'

Recently, when my H came clean about the A, stopped it, etc, I exploded. It was short and I recovered quickly, but I had a LOT pent up inside. I still do have a lot of pain, a lot of healing. It's tough.

My best advice is to work with your family and your counselor to find ways to express that pain/anger. My H is doign that now for all the things in our M, and you know, I'm happy for him. Regardless of how things turn out, it's only good to get that out. Anger cannot be appeased, mollified or forgotten. I felt so great getting out my feelings, and so did H.

I see the your anger, and even W's anger from M, as one final step to all of this. Even W didn't express her anger/pain in M in a true way....she simply got lost and ran away to the A/OM. That's what my H did. ALl these months, we've been focused on the mess we recently created, not the messy issues of our M and the pain we caused then.

You're right. You've got the golden ring, that's wonderful. But, slowly, with each interaction and conversations like yesterday you will rebuild and work toward a healthy M and a loving one, a passionate one. We can't get those feelings back again until we move a little further from the pain, and a little more toward good memories/times.

You still have this last step. Working on the issues of the M, facing what YOUR issues with W in the M were (you have been denying that), and getting her to face it and work with you. You both have to work through the anger/pain. together.

Then, you will find peace. One step at a time, you've come so far.

Frank, nice to hear you consider your story a pseudo-success, or maybe better to say quasi-success, maybe success-in-progress. Whatever, I have always considered you a success because of how you approached the process, if not for the outcome.

I, like always and a few others around here, am feeling this exact way too. The only thing I am jealous of, and I think you need to appreciate about your sitch, is that your W IS part of the process with you. She went to C. She KNOWS this is a self-growth process as well as a marriage saving thing. She knows it, and respects it. I think part of that is your W's nature and a larger part of it is that through all this, you maintained as much openness and honesty as you could while still DBing your a$$ off, and it's paid off in a much smoother transition from holding everything back to opening up to each other than many of us have.

Frank, I don't have that openness in my marriage yet and since I never really did before, and certainly didn't during the height of the affair/DBing, it's really hard for me to establish. I think you can and will establish the kind of open, intimate connection that you need to heal. I believe that because I think you never stopped having that connection, it just pushed WAY into the background. I think that's what we all saw and believed about you.

I am so glad you are continuing to post and keep it real here. It would be so easy to take what you learned in this time, and go away, only returning to "guest" post every once in awhile.

Please, get your work done, put a LOT more energy into your "real" life and take time out ever now and again to keep us posted. You ARE one of the "super helpers" here. Thank you.

GH