Quote: She feels that between work and me she can't handle things.
So make it easier for her to handle things by leaving her alone. Stop "trying to help her," which really isn't helping at all. Your gut does not necessarily serve your best interests.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Quote: She feels that between work and me she can't handle things.
So make it easier for her to handle things by leaving her alone. Stop "trying to help her," which really isn't helping at all. Your gut does not necessarily serve your best interests.
I know I need to leave her alone, it's just hard to see her in pain and not be able to do the things I would if we were together.
Quote: I wish I was able to just pull back and let her do what she needs to do, but my gut instinct is to try to show her that I'd be the H that she deserves.
Man, I think there are probably 1000 different things I have said are the "hardest part of this" but I do think this ranks up there. You HAVE to let her do this. She may reach out for you, and when she does, be there for her but not to take away her pain but to validate it and help her deal with it herself. What she is crying out for is validation. Between her people at work turning on her and you invalidating her with both your kind words and not-so-kind words and actions, she is getting it from all sides.
YOU need to be the one who relieves that pressure by taking that step back, detaching, being there for her when she calls to validate and then stepping back.
Yes, this truly is the key...the ultimate goal really. WAS need space, crave it in fact and by not getting it, they garner resentment towards the person who is perceived to be holding them back, i.e., you. Patience, unconditional love, validation, and emotional detachment.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Well not much ahs heppend in my sitch lately. We had the big discussion on Monday then after that nothing really. I've backed off quite a bit and thought I was doing really well...until today.
The lawn at the house has become quite an eye soar and I asked the wife about it the other day to make sure she was going to get it taken care of, otherwise I was going to do it. So today I go and drop the kids off and who is mowing the lawn? Her "friend" is. I dropped the kids off, got back in my truck and took off, no words were really exchanged. Now the feelings I thought I had under control are back in the forefront and I'm feeling extremely restless. Trying not to do or say anything rash, I need to go out so I have a day or two to let this go. Maybe I'm overreacting abit but it is so frustrating to see this guy taking care off things that should be my responsibilty, at a house I pay for but that she won't even let me near without calling ahead. Goes back to the "someone else living my life" idea. I've told ehr more than once that her life doesn't seem to be much different, she ahs basically the same routine the only thing different is I'm not there. My life is completely different. I can't afford my apartment and the house anymore so tommorrow I'm moving into my parents...meanwhile she gets to have the house and her life just like it was before.
Wow you are in the sitch I see happening soon in mine. The way things are going in my home and wife getting closer and closer daily to the OM. I am just now getting ready to get a apt thats going to make $$$ tight and having a new crewcab Ford Superduty I won't be owning much longer too if I want to have food on my table so selling that soon. Also moving in with my parents is not something im looking at doing yet if I can make it. Its bad enough having to get a apt afer paying on a house for years. My wife just got approved for her homelone so yea Im with ya on that nothing is going to change for her either she gets to keep her new mini van have a nice house and the whole 9yrds. She has a house in her name that she can afford with out support. I have to get a apt sell most of what I have and start my life all over again like I just got out of High School and moved out of home.
I got to hand it to ya you are way more in touch with your actions and thoughts than I am. If i pulled into the drive and saw OM mowing my lawn wow that could be bad. That would be tough you are a strong person to just walk away like that that is great. Shows you really are the better person. Don't think that she did not notice how you handeled that sitch Im sure she knew how hard that must have been to pull in the driveway and see that "friend" doing the yardwork. Your handling things way better than me. I could learn a few things from you.
Well I moved into my parents yesterday and so far it hasn't been the positive experience I had hoped for. Last night I started to ffel a ton of resentmenta nd anger that now at 28 i'm living in a tiny room at my parents and she is living in a nice big house. Si being stupid, I took a step back and called her to discuss the situautiona nd told her that me living here was temporary and that at soem point I would want the house back. So we've spent much time discussing the R thae last 24 hours, and she is as upset with me as shje ever was. She said she is starting to hate me, that I am still pushing her away and that I haven't changed. I thought I had, but I guess not. Back to square one.
Can this still work? Or should i cut my losses and move on?
Quote: Can this still work? Or should i cut my losses and move on?
You know, that's one of the decisions we all have to make many times...right up until we figure out that WE ARE IN CONTROL of our lives and nobody else's.
It's NEVER too late, at least in the abstract sense. What I mean is that YOU have to decide if you really want this to work or not. That is to say that you are willing to take the risk of really TRYING to do things like detach and LRT before you have no choice but to.
What is going to change tomorrow if you "cut your losses and move on"? Well, first of all, you probably won't initiate any more R talks, which is good DB anyway. Next, you are going to quit pursuing her and pressuring her, which is good DB too. Basically, by "giving up" you are really going to just start doing what you should have been doing all along.
The risky part is to not allow your feelings for her to die off AND still do all these things, realizing that it's probably the only thing that will work.
It's really hard to do these things and make these decisions. It's hard to take risks since we are already in so much pain but to do so is to really start to move forward with your life, understanding that you are fully responsible for it.
So, stop pushing OR pulling her and just start to live again. She WILL see that and hopefully, someday, will respond to it given the honest chance to.
Emotionally I feel like I haven't made any progress. I feel down and depressed all over again. All I want to do is sleep. What a roller coaster ride this is.
THe W now says she only wants me to call when it's about the kids. I told her I won't push her. That is going to be so hard.
I have my last final today for school and can hardly concentrate, my mind is so full of thoughts about my wife. I don't want this marriage to end but she is so hurt. I know the right things to do I just can't seem to do them. THe good news is my hand is pretty much healed from the cabinet incident and i can go back to work. That should help a bit.
Here is my advice that I compiled after my wife and I got back together. All of it is based on studying the vast amounts of knowledge, wisdom and heartache on this board and reading Michelles book over, and over, and over...I suggest you follow the same general approach.
2. Give her space and don’t pressure: This is numero uno. If you cannot do this, you WILL surely end your marriage or at minimum prolong emotional and physical distance between you and your spouse indefinitely. Don’t believe me? Then keep doing it and see what happens. I know it is hard, and yes, it was unbelievably frustrating for me. At first I did not succeed, and it really pissed her off. To you such behavior may seem as if you are showing your commitment and love, but to her, you are being selfish and disrespectful. My wife told me recently that one of the most important things I did during our separation was to back off and let her think. She needed to MISS ME. Last Christmas she went home to her parents (who by the way despise me and still do) and I drove across the country to see my family. I did not call or email for two weeks. Guess who started to call and email me saying she missed me within a week or so? SO, this means stop calling, stop emailing, stop text messaging, stop asking for dates/time together etc. etc. If you want her back, LEAVE HER ALONE. Pressure speaks volumes about desperation and weakness – something women find incredibly unattractive. Women want someone who is strong, silent and dependable. Begging, pleading, crying, manipulating and trying to convince her to change her mind will only make you repulsive and WILL push her out the door faster than anything else! You have to be strong and cool. This does not mean you should ignore her completely. But in general, let her contact you, and if she won’t, DON’T pick up the phone or email. Let her know occasionally that you are her friend and you are there for her or your kids (if you have any) if they/she need anything. And I mean, a one or two sentence email or voicemail, and don’t tell her you love her and miss her, and don’t use this as an excuse to get her on the phone and start blabbering about how much you love her, want a second chance, will change, want to make it work…blah blah blah, because all that she hears is exactly that - “blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine moan, moan, moan.” She hears a pathetic, frightened man (which we all are when we going through this) but don’t let her see it. Who wants to live with and depend upon someone like this? I wouldn’t. So, for God’s sake people, IF YOU WANT HER BACK LEAVE HER ALONE. She is driving this train, and you have to accept that. Patience is your indispensable ally. Cloying attempts at affection and desperation are your enemies. There is nothing you can say or do to change her mind. If she does change her mind, it will be on her terms and her schedule – period. No pressure also means NO ULTIMATIUMS such as “you have one month to make a decision, or I am going to file for divorce.” This is a very bad idea. You will likely get it. Keep your mouth shut and back off.
3. When you are together ALWAYS AGREE, keep your mouth shut and LISTEN intently to every word she says: When you do get chance to talk to her or spend time with her – and you will – ALWAYS try your hardest to be upbeat, positive, friendly, considerate and DON’T get angry or talk about your feelings and what YOU WANT. Stay positive and don’t bring up the relationship unless she does, and when she does, keep your trap shut and listen to everything she says. Want to stay out of trouble? Listen. Want to get back in the house? Listen. Want to have a long loving relationship? Listen. My God, listen till the blood drips from your ears; listen till you want to scream out a solution; listen until she has nothing left to say and when she’s done, shut up and listen some more. Women are the caregivers and if you want her to give, you’d better do some caring. Not only should you listen, but when you do speak, always AGREE. Validate what she says, and don’t argue. For example, “you were a complete jerk, you hurt me, you never spent time with our family, you’re selfish, you have two heads, the moon is made of chocolate etc etc…” I don’t care what she says, just say…”You’re right…I was a jerk, I am sorry and I screwed up…and your right the moon is made of chocolate and I have two heads. If you want me to leave, I understand, your right, maybe it would never work, but I do love you and I’ll always be here for you and the kids if you need anything.” It works people. When she starts talking about your failures and why the marriage was so horrible, much of which is probably true, she is waiting for you to react in anger, hurt, frustration, and let you say horrible things to her, blame her for everything and storm out of the house because this is the type of behavior that validates her thoughts, expectations and rationalizations for walking away. Such behavior will make her feel better. When you DON’T act like this, it will throw her for a loop and she will be completely bewildered. Try it. But you have to be consistent. As aside, this doesn’t mean you should be a doormat. This simply means listening and validating her feelings, thoughts and emotions regarding you, her and the marriage. It does not mean that you have to accept ridiculous requests regarding things such as financial or property issues. If these come up, respectfully and calmly disagree. In fact, you can use them to buy time. For example, you might say: “that is not acceptable to me at this point, and it is something we can negotiate or work out in a few weeks, but I am sure we can find an amiable middle ground. I don’t want you and the kids to be a bad position. Remember I am your best friend regardless of what happens.”
4. Change (do the 180s) and don’t tell her you have or are changing: Now this one is actually as important as the first one because if don’t make some changes, then you will be back in the same boat soon enough. Also, the changes will make you happier. In my case, I had to do some serious soul searching and self analyzing that included counseling and joining a support group for sexual addiction (i.e., online pornography). Both have helped me immensely. Now…you cannot tell your wife that you are or have changed. Words don’t mean sh** especially to our estranged spouses. Actions speak louder than words, and make sure the changes and self realizations are genuine. She will be watching even if you don’t realize it; and your behavior will be scrutinized very closely. She is examining everything under a microscope under high magnification, and please don’t try and B.S. or manipulate her. Women hate it when they perceive that they are being manipulated in a relationship. She will see right through it like panes of glass…trust me on this one. In some cases, they will get really pissed when you start making changes and start cater wallowing about why you didn’t do these things before you separated and cause everyone so much pain…etc. etc. “why did it take this for you to realize you needed some help.” Let them say it….respond with something like “men are insulated and sometimes it takes something really devastating before we realize our shortcomings” and this is true of course.
5. “Get a life” (GAL) or at least act like you are getting a life and doing “just fine:” Go to the gym, go hiking, take trips, go for a walk, take classes. You get the idea. They are not going to want to come back to you until they can see that you are strong enough to survive without them, and anyway, doing things might make you feel better. In my case, only the trips really helped and in general I felt pretty crappy regardless of what I was doing. BUT, don’t let them know this. Don’t show it. Fake it if you have to. If you are doing fun and interesting things, they will wonder about it, and probably wish they were doing them with you. However, as is the case with your 180s, it may piss them off. I remember my wife saying something like “oh, now you are having fun and doing all these wonderful and positive things that you would never do with me...guess my love wasn’t enough.” Let them say it, shut up and keep doing what you are doing because it is getting their attention. If anything, say something like “you would love for them to join you but are not going to push because you are respecting their need for space and time.” What about “going dark?” You have to be careful with this one because it can backfire depending upon your situation. In mine, it was delicate because one of her complaints was that I was too distant in our marriage. So I had to be careful here, but it does help somewhat. However, when she called or emailed during dark periods, I was always there to answer the phone or respond to the email ASAP.
