That didn't go so well after all. Dunno if impatience got to me or whether it was the right time but I approached W with a R talk...it went nowhere...literally. She was talking to her sister on the phone and talking about all these "future" things that would include me. She was happy and it seemed as good a time as any to lightly bring up the topic. So, after she got off the phone, she called up to me to talk to me about her convo with her sis. I listened and afterwards I simply asked...
M: So, how are YOU? W: Fine. M: No, I mean in general, how are things? W: Good I guess. M: How are WE? I feel like things are better lately. W: (silence) M: Ok, so should I take that as an answer? W: I guess. What do you want to hear? M: Nothing I guess.
That was it. Wow. I have NO idea what that means. Sure, I didn't approach it head on, but I did ask a question that has an answer one way or another. IF things are getting better, why not just say "I agree, they are better." Or, if not, just be honest. I suppose I dropped the ball, and maybe OT will slap me for it. I should have just asked specific questions if I wanted specific answers. This was my way of breaking the ice and getting the general temperature of things. From there I was going to ask my direct questions. I still could but that was VERY awkward to be sure. I am not really sure what's going on and as usual, I am just going to let it ride. I learned another lesson tonight, one OT is trying to teach me. DIRECT is the ONLY way to approach these things. Ask a vague question and get...well...silence. And the beat goes on...
GH, keep in mind that it's normal for your W to be depressed at this state if she's really given up the OM. Don't let yourself get discouraged. You've been so patient, and i know that it's hard to keep waiting.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Great advice RB, and at just the right time. I WILL be patient. I agree with those that say now is the time to talk, but not RIGHT now. Things are going better, and I AM going better so I am ok with this. We are going to have a nice family day out at a theme park and I am going to let this melt away for a few hours!
-- seems like you were pretty direct... -- your response is maybe a little short or sarcastic... she may have been still thinking about how to answer... A better response might have been, "I don't want to put you on the spot and I feel like I have. This is something I think we really need to talk about at some point as we heal our R, but it doesn't have to be right now..." -- quit overthinking it, you did fine... your M does not hinge on something like this...
Yesterday was a pretty good day. We were supposed to do a ton of housework but it was TOO perfect out and we decided to blow everything off and go to Disney World (sorry, I know many of you now hate me) for the day. My W has long lamented that we live 20 minutes away from DW with 2 kids the perfect age to enjoy the parks, and we never go. She's always wanted to have annual passes so we could go all the time. I have too, but the cost was too much. Well, we looked into a pass that was only good for about 1/2 the year and it was affordable in our budget so we just did it. All this was VERY spontaneous and it felt great, once again, to be able to do that. We are not going to have to slow down on the spending but we are, for once in our married life, getting to do a lot of what we want to do. I know money doesn't make you happy, but in this case, it's sure helping.
So, we went to the park and it was CROWDED. We went with another couple and their two girls. It was a fun day, mostly without conflict between W and I. The only incident was when W was in line with her friend for something to drink and needed money. S5 had run off to a playground and I didn't want to leave him to walk over to her. I did anyway (husband of friend was watching the kids at this point) and when I got over there, I snapped that she could have walked over to me and I didn't want to come over because S5 was running away. She didn't like my tone but SHE never really said anything, it was her friend that told me W was pissed over it. If she was, she didn't show it. She was quiet but in a few minutes she was over it and we were back to having fun again.
----- I have to interrupt this and just say that I am really upset right now for reasons totally unrelated to my sitch. The wife of a co-worker of mine just passed away from lung cancer. She was perfectly healthy, or so they thought, 3 weeks ago, checked into the hospital for some chest pain and is now gone. He is one of the kindest people I know and is totally devastated. My thoughts and prayers are with him. -------
Anyway, in light of that I will shorten and sweeten this post. We had fun and it was another good family day. I guess at this point, considering W doesn't want to talk, I can't ask for more. I am still confused about all this but I am determined to make the best of limbo and stop being negative about it. IT IS a far cry from where I was a few months ago and for that I am eternally grateful. I think my need to talk will pass because it is directly connected to my need to control and inability to deal with "living" for myself. I am back to needing her to validate how I am feeling and as we all know, the WAS do not usually do that for us, at least at the point I am at now. So, back to DBing and I am going to try to put a happy face on my sitch. Needless to say, with what just happened to my friend's wife, my perspective has shifted a bit.
-- seems like you were pretty direct... -- your response is maybe a little short or sarcastic... she may have been still thinking about how to answer... A better response might have been, "I don't want to put you on the spot and I feel like I have. This is something I think we really need to talk about at some point as we heal our R, but it doesn't have to be right now..." -- quit over thinking it, you did fine... your M does not hinge on something like this...
OT, you know what I like most about you? You always say the right thing at the right time. You don't always say what I want to hear, but it's almost always spot on. Thank you.
I know I did fine. I guess I wanted to feel like I opened the door but since she didn't walk through, I can still take solace in the fact that it should be open now if she decides to use it. I am not too sure if or when we will talk but I am now content to go back to living my life. I am happy with that decision.
As for my sarcasm, yea, it was and I regret THAT part of the conversation. I really like what you said better but what is done is done.
The most important thing you said to me here was the part about marriages not hinging on something like this. I think I get SO focused on this stuff, and over-think it, that each little aspect of what happens takes on enormous importance. It seems like I have been thinking WAY too much and living too little. My original self/therapist's mental diagnosis was that I was controlling and over thought everything to the point where I was not ever living my life in the "present". I did GREAT for awhile in changing that but I have slipped back to my old ways a bit. That stops today!
I want to live my life without the burden of all the extra crap I put on myself. Easier said than done, but I can do it. I am going to try some meditation techniques tonight and see where it leads me.
Quote: we decided to blow everything off and go to Disney World (sorry, I know many of you now hate me)
As a huge WDW fan, I am definitely jealous. My D hasn't been since just before her 3rd B-day, and she's now 4 1/2, so she's been wanting to go badly for a long time. I've been asking for WDW tickets and Disney Dollars for the last two years for my birthday and Christmas, so I've already got $462 of trip expenses out of the way.
I've actually been planning to take W and D when W ends the A (we even discussed this), but I decided this morning (before reading your post, oddly enough) to take D on a trip this spring, whether W is ready to come or not. Why should I wait for W to end the A when that could take forever?
I think I'm going to plan a trip for the last week of April or the first two weeks of May (crowds are moderate, because Easter break is over and school isn't out yet).
I haven't been that great of a father since W left, and I really want to spend some time connecting to her in the way that only Disney can do it.
So, I'm not doing this primarily to manipulate my W (I know that is a pet peeve of yours, GH ), but it won't hurt anything that she will fell horribly left out and miss being part of a family and taking those trips that we've taken in the past. I really believe that scheduling the trip might even cause her to put in that date as a self-imposed deadline for ending it with the OM. We'll see, but my D and I are going to have fun at Disneyworld no matter what.
BTW, I know that you probably already know this, but it was inevitable that the parks would be crowded this weekend, as lots of kids are on spring break. The secret is to get to the park when it opens, before the crowds build, and in the evening when most have gone home. Also, you want to be aware of the Extra Magic Hours that Disney gives to resort guests. If a park has Extra Magic Hours for a particular morning or evening, it will be considerably more crowded later in the morning or earlier in the evening, respectively.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
Quote: So, I'm not doing this primarily to manipulate my W (I know that is a pet peeve of yours, GH ), but it won't hurt anything that she will fell horribly left out and miss being part of a family and taking those trips that we've taken in the past.
It's funny how sometimes you all talk about me as if I know what I am talking about. Anything I know, or is a pet peeve of mine, is really just recycled advice you all have given me combined with some stuff I have read, also on recommendation from YOU.
I guess my strength is that I am not afraid of trying to help. I am not afraid because I assume (oops) that everyone here understands that I, like everyone else here, am a lay-person without any formal training or education to speak of on this subject. I am just a guy going through it same as the rest of you. If this sounds like false modesty, I assure you, it's not. I respect the kind words some of you have given me because of the help I have been able to offer you. I just get a little amused at how LOST I feel sometimes and yet I still am perceived as knowing what I am doing.
No matter what, I am grateful to those of you who help me daily, and I am honored by those of you who feel helped by me.
Anyway, I had a couple comments to make that as usual, came from reading other's sitches.
The first one was about a question asked of somebody. They were asked how long they would last in their R if their WAS came home one day and said "Honey, I love you and lets work things out." but nothing else changed in the sitch. I guess my answer would be...well...I guess we'll see...My W has not said those words, but she put the ring back on and said she's trying to get back to "us" but I see little else changing with her so we'll see. The gist of the post I read was that it was NOT enough for the WAS to say the words, but they also had to do the deeds. I suppose as luck would have it, my W is sorta doing the deeds (well not THAT deed but...) and skipped over the words part. Dunno which is better. Both would be nice I suppose.
Next thing is that I thought that Tiger Woods had an interesting, albeit common, quote during his interview last night on 60 minutes. Again, it's a common refrain but I relate it to my sitch. "I will know when to quit when my best isn't good enough to win anymore." Isn't that the truth. That is the perfect way to sum up what we all say around here about each of us determining when enough is enough. I know when my I am doing my best to grow and be the best man I can be and my W still continues down the road away from me, it's time to move on. The problem with Woods, me, and anyone else espousing this philosophy as it relates to some pursuit is that you NEVER think you are doing your best so there is always room to be "better" lol. Leaves a LOT of doors open, doesn't it. I have lots of experience with this because it's taken me more than 12 years to launch my photography career and all the while I had my parents, friends and lovers all ask me why I kept going. I always told them it was because I knew there was at least one more thing left to try and if that failed, well then I would move on...'cept there was always one more thing.
In that situation with my career, which is now proving to be very successful, and this one with my marriage, I am optimistic. That optimism, and my belief in it is one of the things that helped me turn around so quickly when the bombs dropped. One of the things my W said to me was the I was one of the most negative people she ever met. Immediately I knew that the man SHE knew, the man I projected to the world WAS NOT who I was inside. The man who went through years of, well, failure to try to reach his goal of becoming a successful photographer could NOT afford to be negative yet here I was, my W, the person who knows me best, telling me I was the opposite of how I felt inside. I knew it was time for some SERIOUS soul searching and once I did that, it wasn't hard to find the glaring issues that contributed to the demise of my marriage.
When I get to the point where I have nothing left to give, or can't be optimistic anymore, then it's time to give in. That time is not here yet. I hope I'll know when it is.
Why, if my W is "trying" to get back to "us" does she insist on being awol for most of the day, most days? IF she is indeed not with OM anymore, then why the mystery? Is there any explanation that is NOT her still with OM? I mean why would she not understand that mystery is NOT conducive to reconciliation? Is it because I have not directly said it isn't? Is it her still exercising her need for freedom, but not necessarily freedom to be with OM? I know, unproductive speculation, and worse than that, I am trying to get you all in on it! lol.
I am on my own little mini-rollercoaster with all this. One minute I am ok with "living" and the next I want to start in on the questions. I guess it's all part of observing my silent partner and trying to make sure things I am seeing COULD represent progress, if not actually do represent it. For now, COULD is good enough, but some things are hard to fit into the COULD mold. I just have to make sure I don't act on the feelings of the ride...
Quote: It's funny how sometimes you all talk about me as if I know what I am talking about. Anything I know, or is a pet peeve of mine, is really just recycled advice you all have given me combined with some stuff I have read, also on recommendation from YOU.
I guess my strength is that I am not afraid of trying to help. I am not afraid because I assume (oops) that everyone here understands that I, like everyone else here, am a lay-person without any formal training or education to speak of on this subject. I am just a guy going through it same as the rest of you. If this sounds like false modesty, I assure you, it's not. I respect the kind words some of you have given me because of the help I have been able to offer you. I just get a little amused at how LOST I feel sometimes and yet I still am perceived as knowing what I am doing.
You know what, though? Nobody can truly predict how a WAS is going to react to anything. Any advice that anyone here gets automatically comes with a warning label that says "Use at your own risk." Even professional counselors don't know for sure.
GH, a lot of the advice you dispense here is just common sense -- and that's needed for sure. It's also clear that you care. Thanks.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
), but it won't hurt anything that she will fell horribly left out and miss being part of a family and taking those trips that we've taken in the past. I really believe that scheduling the trip might even cause her to put in that date as a self-imposed deadline for ending it with the OM. We'll see, but my D and I are going to have fun at Disneyworld no matter what.