Well, this morning talked with W because I saw she was kind of having something on her mind. She has been emotionally 'vacant' the past several days and generally unhappy.
She said that she felt a whole lot better when she was away on her massage workshop last week, stuck to her diet and felt less pressure on her when she was there.
But here at home she is having trouble with her diet and just feels pressured. She isn't making enough money to pay anything other than the rent on her office. Problems Problems Problems.
Her friend Donna told her that she also had the same issues and that the workshops are a special environment and home is different and she needs to find a balance.
And, W says to me, "I feel like we are stagnant because we're not moving forward with the divorce". She says "But I know we're waiting because of money and to make it easier on the kids".
hmmm
I asked her a few questions about she and I, and how we are getting along, and she thinks we are getting along 'fine'. No issues there.
I saw Counselor today and told her some other stuff plus this and she suggested that we have been in a 'stalemate' in our 'relationship'. It needs a push one way or another. And that W is using that lack of 'moving forward' as an excuse for why her life isn't all roses.
So, next time she brings up anything like this I will tell her that nobody is forcing her to stay here. That I will be fine with or without her and that she has SEEN that I am fine. I will take care of the kids and they will also be fine.
So go. Take enough money from our home equity account each month to pay for rent for a small apt and I'll prepare the house to be SOLD in July. Then you'll have money and we'll just settle up on whatever you take.
She'll probably argue about the kids routines and the pets and all the stuff she has said before, but I can handle all those things. She can file her divorce papers too - if she wants to. Whatever will make her happy.
I'll tell her that I'll always love her forever and that everything will work out since we won't have to fight over anything. That I really don't want a divorce but I don't want to stay stuck in limbo either.
Counselor said to wait until she brings something up again, and then hit her with reality. She CAN get what she says she wants. Here. Take it.
She might. She might not. C says most people won't leave a situation where 90% of their needs are being met.
If we don't end up talking about this before Thursday, C will bring it up in W's session with her anyway. I told C how I could help her afford a place to live that would not look like it was 'charity'.
I told C that I am starting to feel used. The sex was just using me, she lives here and is using me. I worry about how she actually feels about me. C said to stop worrying about that because she doesn't FEEL for anybody right now. Not even the kids. That makes me sad that she doesn't really feel anything. I really want to feel loved, even of it's just a little bit. My kids love me so that will do.
The stalemate has to end I guess. I think this was the 'fear' that I needed to get over. It's part of my journey. I've already removed all the reasons she was LEAVING that had to do with me. Now I have to remove all the reasons she is STAYING in this 'in between' place so she CAN leave.
Still crazy. I get these challenges because I can do them. Of course I'm afraid. Afraid she will actually leave. But she's already emotionally vacant. What would be diferent? And what does SHE think will be different? Does she just not want to be a mother any more? What?
Well, not the best situation to be in but kind of inevitable. She's not going to 'just come back'.
For now I am going to distance and she can feel the aloneness. I really hate this and I want it to be over. But, as C said, she is acting like a teenager, she's not getting what she wants.
C says that W probably thought she could just say 'I want a divorce' and she could stay in the same house and I would take care of everything. Nope.
I sometimes wish there wasn't such a strong connection between us, at least for me. It would make this much easier.
Frank, I do hope that there will be an end to the stalemate. I tend to agree with your C, hard to believe she will leave when so many of her needs are being met right there-- she just doesn't realize it yet.
NewJohn
Me: 44
W: 41
S15
Together 25 years- Married 22
My situation
Quote: Frank, I do hope that there will be an end to the stalemate. I tend to agree with your C, hard to believe she will leave when so many of her needs are being met right there-- she just doesn't realize it yet. NewJohn
There will be an end to the stalemate. W seems to still believe strongly in divorce being the 'answer' to her problems.
It's still weird that Counselor still thinks that W doesn't really want to stop being a stay at home mom. She likes doing the massage classes and stuff - but doesn't want to have to actually SUPPORT herself doing it. It was all fun and 'spiritual' - until she had to rely on it to make a living. Now it's work. Something like that.
Either way I have to go back to being tough on her again like I did in January. I hate doing that now because she might really leave. It's scary but I can see that it has to be done.
Counselor still thinks she is way lost in her own emptyness. Sometimes I think it may be better for all of us if she leaves.
Quote: Sometimes I think it may be better for all of us if she leaves.
You don't really believe that do you? What would be better for all of you is if she found her way out of her emptiness first if at all possible. I know that doesn't seem to be happening despite all the time, but there has been so much progress in your sitch.
You are in the middle of all this, so your perception is probably different, but according to all your posts, she sure doesn't seem to *really* want a D. At least not to me. Keeps mentioning it as an answer to her problems, but I don't get the feeling that she can make that plunge. She is unsure of what the answer really is, so instead she thinks a divorce will "ctrl-alt-delete" her problems away. (Can't isolate a problem, then just reboot everything...) But it's too drastic of a solution...can't do it.
NewJohn
Me: 44
W: 41
S15
Together 25 years- Married 22
My situation
I agree with NewJohn that your wife wants to "ctrl-alt-delete" her problems away.
But I disagree that her moving out would be a drastic move. You know what I think about this, Frank, so it should come as no surprise when I say I think she's going to have to have reality tossed right in her lap before she really grabs a clue what she'd be losing.
I'm sorry and I know I will likely be in the minority on this one but I think she needs to be shown the door. I DO think she will return, though, once she realizes what she has done. You're enabling her to stay in her fantasy world where all would be perfect if she just had a divorce. BS!!!! Show her what's on the other side of the door. It ain't pretty and she'll learn to appreciate you in such a way that she never forgets. I'd bet on it.
I know it's a leap of faith. I also know you will think it through thoroughly and make a wise decision and no matter what it may be, FWIW I'll support you.
Quote: I'm sorry and I know I will likely be in the minority on this one but I think she needs to be shown the door. I DO think she will return, though, once she realizes what she has done. You're enabling her to stay in her fantasy world where all would be perfect if she just had a divorce. BS!!!! Show her what's on the other side of the door. It ain't pretty and she'll learn to appreciate you in such a way that she never forgets. I'd bet on it.
I know it's a leap of faith. I also know you will think it through thoroughly and make a wise decision and no matter what it may be, FWIW I'll support you.
NewJohn's right on with his observation about her wanting to restart her life. NewJohn, you have to realize that sometimes shock therapy is needed. But it comes with risks. That's where I'm at right now in this sitch. A big risk, but the only way to break the status quo.
And, Amy, you are exactly in sync with my Counselor. It's an INCREDIBLE leap of faith but it's also one of the last of my fears, that she would actually leave me. So it's the right thing to do.
If the opportunity comes up Wednesday I will show her HOW she can leave and be ok financially, and HOW she can start the divorce process if she really wants to do it. I won't DO either for her, and I will tell her that I will always love her and I would be happy if we stayed married, but I will not stand by and have her think that she is being held hostage by circumstances.
I'll only do this if it is appropriate during a conversation with her, not as a 'Hey, I was thinking this', because Counselor (and I) think that would come across as threatening. It will better to 'respond' to one of her whines about how "stuck she is" with a 'solution'. Then she has no excuse for being stuck.
If I don't talk to her about it, on Thursday afternoon when she sees Counselor, she will get it from HER. She'll work it into the session somehow, probably as a 'stop making excuses, do what you say you want'.
This is the right thing to do. Counselor said to me today "You have nothing to be ashamed of. You did everything right from day one. You can be at peace knowing you did all that you could do, and in such a short amount of time. She needs this to happen or she won't grow up".
A friend said to me tonite that it's time to stop 'treading water' and it's ok to swim to shore. Take the energy I have been putting into her and put it into me.
Or, as Amy said several days ago. 'Stop trying, turn it over to God"
This is not 'giving up', just a strategic retreat for a while. I'm sad, and hurt, but I'm also in a much better place right now than I was about 6 weeks ago when I first did my 'detachment' for real. So it will be less painful this time.
I don't have the strength right now to deal with her so I'm going to wimp out a little and stay at my office till late, and leave home after the kids go to school. That way I won't cross her path much. Time to let her go and see what happens next.
I guess you could ask yourself - what is the worse thing that can happen if she leaves? Life goes on, and she will either learn that she has to grow up or she will not. If she truly was a teenager, then the best thing for her, is to let her go, and learn to do for herself. If you help, keep it to a minimum, otherwise she may see that as manipulation.
If it were me, I would want my S back because he/she wants me - not for the kids, or what I could do for them. That's how I eventually played my cards, and it seemed to work - still other issues, but my H wanted to stay in the M, and he said because he realized that he was living a fantasy, and that he really did love me. He only realized all this when I decided that I want the D, and I wanted to move on with my life, and was happy with that decision.
Huge risk, but what is life if we don't take risks. Playing safe rarely gets you anywhere. Ultimately, you either make the choice, or the choice is made for you.
Thinking of ya at this time!
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Well, I did accomplish some work last nite and got home around 11pm. Everyone was in bed. W did not say anything as I walked by her darkened room. Perhaps she was asleep.
Oddly enough, the front door wasn't locked. Normally it would be if she goes to bed and I'm not home.
This morning she kind of ignored me. I was pretty tired when I got up so I was a bit quiet but not distant. She said a couple things to me and smiled, and I was nice and also smiled. Then D10 came into the room and W said 'Tell your daddy that you missed him last nite'. D10 comes over to me and says she missed me and gives me a hug.
Seemed odd that she would TELL D10 to say that. If D10 wanted to tell me, she would have.
W asked me to make sure I was home thursday nite as she had to work then so I said it was no problem I should be caught up by then.
For the most part we didn't talk. She took D10 to school and I was in the shower when she came home. She then left for her exercise walk so I didn't see her at all and I left to go to my office.
I would say she seems kind of angry still. At what, I don't know. Maybe because I didn't come home, so she had to 'do everything herself'. She seemed to want to 'move forward' with divorce so why should it matter what I do, whether I am home?
I feel so crappy. I was sort of feeling like things were in a plateau until she started her 'I want to move forward' complaining. So, I'm a little depressed today. Seems like she really feels like she 'has to go' for whatever reason. Mostly my emotions are 'shocked'. I've been carrying a lot for a long time and in the back of my mind I would almost be glad if I knew for sure this would be over in the summer and I could grieve and move on.
I've checked out our probable house sale price, what our debts are, and have numbers of what she will get as as settlement. She'll have a couple years of rent for a small home, plus child support and probably some spousal support. But she'll never be able to BUY a house again once she is out of the market though. Not in Southern California.
I figure if I keep distant and detached she should be 'happy', right? She wants 'out' so not having me around should be a positive for her. I'm not going to 'try' any more. She's just an energy drain, and I really am tired of hurting so much. Just need some time.
