Hi everyone. It's been over two years since I've posted here, but unfortunately my absence from the DB board had nothing to do with a sudden upturn in my sex life. Two years later, the situation in my marriage hasn't changed one bit. I took a break from the board due to the fact that constantly posting and reading posts from everyone else made it impossible for me to stop thinking about what I could do to "fix" my sexless marriage, which in turn resulted in frequent "sex arguments" with my wife. However, while I've gotten a lot better at not getting into fights with my wife over the past couple of years, I've become increasingly apathetic about the whole situation. I guess I've proved to myself that just hoping things will get better while doing nothing won't improve my situation one bit. I'm ready to become a bit more proactive, but I don't really know where to start.
My previous threads are hard to find since they're so old, but here are the links for anyone that has a few hours to kill.
In case anyone is wondering about my subject line, I'm out of town working for a couple of days and tonight I went out for a wonderful dinner which included three beers - two Harpoon I.P.A.s and a Guinness. The slight buzz from the beer was my motivation to get on here and start typing, but at the moment I don't have any specific questions to ask or any stories to tell. I just started this post so I'll have somewhere to go when I feel like getting into the details. I know, that probably doesn't make much sense, but at the moment I'm not too worried about it.
RE sooner1992 I've become increasingly apathetic about the whole situation......I'm ready to become a bit more proactive
Welcome back to the group. It seems like you have some things in common with MojoReturns. She left for a while, changed some of her thought processes. Her thread might be helpful to you.
constantly posting and reading posts from everyone else made it impossible for me to stop thinking about Sounds too familiar. Sometimes reading and trying ideas w/o success can get you down. BTDT.
Hi everyone. I’m a little out of practice, but I thought I’d attempt to describe my situation and see if anyone has any ideas of what I could possibly do to make things better. I’ll warn you – this post is long as I have a tendency to present every detail that could possibly have anything to do with my situation. I have a seriously sex-starved marriage. I started posting on this site in March of 2003 and my situation hasn’t changed significantly since then. There’s a fair amount of detail in my previous posts, links to which are provided in the first post of this thread. To summarize, my wife and I started dating nearly 13 years ago and we’ve been married for 9 years. We have two beautiful daughters who are 8 and 5. We both have good jobs and we don’t have any financial problems. We’re both attractive, well educated, and have good personalities. We get along quite well with each other except that there is absolutely no “romantic component” to our relationship, which obviously bothers me but doesn’t seem to bother my wife.
When we were dating, my wife made me feel like the most desirable man in the world. We used to kiss passionately, she was constantly “hanging” on me, we had a great sexual relationship, etc. My friends used to comment about how obviously in love with me she was. Our romantic problems seemed to begin around the time we got married, or shortly thereafter as she got pregnant 3 months later. While we were not planning to have children so soon, we were both excited about it once the initial shock wore off, and we both love being parents. I realize that it probably would have been better for our relationship to have had some more time with just each other, but since we can’t change that now (which I don’t think we would if we could), I’ll just say that having children sooner than we were planning to is by no means a lingering point of contention.
My wife is a beautiful, intelligent woman who has always been great at anything she’s ever done. She was athletic and slim growing up so it bothers her that she’s a little bit heavier than she’d like to be, but she’s not fat by any means. She just seems to think that she should have the same body now that she had in her early 20’s. I realize that her perception of her own body is a big deal, but to me she is more beautiful than ever and I actually prefer her to be a bit more filled out. Back when I was posting before, she had some issues with her job that were making her quite unhappy, however she now has a job that she really likes – so that really isn’t an issue anymore. In my opinion, she stretches herself way too thin doing the typical “Supermom” things, like volunteering for things at our girls’ school, being a girl scout leader, etc., but she’s not likely to give those things up as she wants to be the best mom she can be. I think it’s great that she does those things, I just think she’d be much less stressed if she could learn to say no every now and then (to someone besides me). I’m as certain as I can possibly be that she’s not having an affair and that she was not abused or molested as a child. I’m a nice looking guy, a good father and a loving husband, very easy-going, and I’m about as nice of a person as you’ll ever meet. Not to say I’m perfect by any means, but I think most women would consider me to be a pretty good catch.
For quite a few years now we’ve had sex extremely infrequently, I’d say around an average of 4 times a year. And on those occasions, I wouldn’t describe it as “making love” as it’s been purely “mechanical”, lacking any kind of passion. It’s always been in our bed, in the dark, under the covers, with no sexy lingerie, advance planning, or dialogue of any kind. It’s always in the missionary position as she isn’t open to trying anything else, with no kissing and no foreplay except for the couple of minutes that she lets my hands roam all over her body before we have intercourse. She hardly touches me – and never anywhere that could possibly be considered provocative. All of that is basically opposite of what sex was like before we were married, and as a result, my performance has become less and less “stellar”. I’ve never had any kind of emotional problems or sexual performance problems before, but I’ve developed some now as my wife’s routine doesn’t make me feel the least bit desirable. I know that what I’ve just described probably sounds terrible, but what concerns me even more is that my wife absolutely refuses to kiss me any more, beyond the kind of kiss you’d give your grandma. I’ve always loved making out and I consider kissing to be quite passionate even by itself, not to mention a vital part of making love. While making out was a regular thing before we were married, I could count on one hand the number of times we’ve kissed passionately since being married (and I probably wouldn’t need most of the fingers on that one hand).
What it kind of seems like to me is that before we were married, my wife considered romance to be an exciting and necessary part of our relationship. But the moment we got married, it became something that she “had” to do and she’s rebelling against that. My wife doesn’t like anyone to tell her what to do. I didn’t change when we got married – I’ve never tried to force my wife to do anything and, with the exception of a few heated “sex arguments” I’m still the nice guy that I always was (I know, probably my greatest fault).
I know there’s no magic solution to my problems, but I could use some help coming up with some way to get through to my wife and restore some romance to our marriage. I have my doubts that anything will help having been through all of this before, but please don’t let that stop anyone from making suggestions as I’ve hit a brick wall. I know that some of you will probably say – forget it and get a divorce, but that’s not an option I’m considering at this point. I love my little girls and don’t want to be separated from them. It might be different if I was a woman, but as a man I’d have little chance of getting custody. Plus, I really want my girls to grow up in a house with both of their parents. While I know that the current situation isn’t good for them as far as modeling a loving relationship between parents, it’s not as if my wife and I are fighting all the time. As I said before, we get along just fine the vast majority of the time and I doubt anyone has any idea that we're having problems. I end up holding all of my feelings about this inside out of necessity as whenever I try to talk to my wife about the subject of romance I end up regretting it.
Sorry this was so long. I could go on all day but I’ll quit for now and see if anyone has any ideas. If anyone has any thoughts that they’d rather not put out on the message board, please feel free to e-mail me at sooner1992@hotmail.com.
Welcome, from another Sooner. I read your post....and noticed, you haven't mentioned anything about MC. Would she consider it? For that matter...would you?
I've had a HUGE revelation in my M with my H that prompted a pretty lengthy discussion with our C (one on one) about how people perceive R's once they marry and have a family. It happens at times with men that there is sometimes a shift in how they view their W after they have children.....they view them in a very motherly fashion, and the R can change greatly. Like in my M....My H and I had a different R prior to me giving birth to our S. After I had our S my H's perception of me changed....I became mother/wife.....I was no longer lover/girlfriend.....and was treated very differently. I can go more into depth on this if you want...but basically it's the whore/madonna thing.
While talking with our C about my H's perception of me and how wrong it was....she mentioned that sometimes, women do the same thing. Although it's not so much their perception of their H changes.....but their perception of the R as a whole and their role in it changes. I'm wondering if this isn't the case with your W. You know...once she had the baby...she became wife/mother, and the role of lover fell by the wayside.
If this is the case with your W a good MC can help her see that there is still lots of room in her mother/wife role for her to be your lover too.
I obviously don't know for sure that this is the case with your W, but since she was at one time very sexual with you and did behave quite differently I do wonder if this could be the case with her.
Oh, it would also be helpful to know what you've said to her to broach this problem in your M.
I hope this isn't a hijack. I went back and read some of your threads and was really struck by the following reply that jen made to the second one:
Quote: My H pretty much just gave up on me about 2 years ago. No more initiating. He just started leaving me alone. I don't think he had a master plan. I think after 9 years of rejections he was just tired of the fight.
That gave me some releif. And took some pressure off. But along with leaving me alone sexually he has also left me alone emotionally. No more back rubs (which I used to get daily and I love), sharing of feelings, romance, touching, snuggling, effection, kindness, patience, etc. He went into the "I don't care mode." He told me he didn't think he was in love with me anymore. Ouch.
So It's been about 2 years of this. And I am just now starting to miss him. You see he was so overboard and in my face about it before that it has taken me this long to really miss a "relationship"
About 2 months ago I dawned on me that I missed him and all the lovely things he used to do for me. I missed his smile. I missed our connection. And the passion. I thought: we are to young to be living like this. Everyday was passing us by in monotone, bland, stale sameness
This is part of the reason why I don't initiate sex. If you are HD and you are in a SSM and you don't want to leave the marriage for reasons having to do with children, religion etc., you really do need to give your LD spouse "space" in the relationship by emotionally distancing yourself - not in a cold, angry way, but in a taking care of yourself way. Otherwise, you are like the kid who keeps coming home crying to Mommy because his best friend hit him and when Mommy asks "Why do you keep playing with someone who hits you?" replies "Because he is my best friend.".
For instance, last fall in addition to not initiating sex, I also stopped initiating or immediately discontinued any other positive behavior to which I regularly got a negative response, such as hugs or pleasant conversations. Then one day my H and I were out hiking and having a pleasant conversation and I unconsciously reached out to hold his hand. He was so happy and he grabbed my hand so tight, because he had learned to miss/appreciate these gestures from me once they were gone.
Sooner, my suggestion for the moment to you would be to concentrate on spending quality time with your daughters since it seems like they are the source of your greatest happiness in your marriage. It's actually possible that they will appreciate the sacrifice that you are making for them.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I also stopped initiating or immediately discontinued any other positive behavior to which I regularly got a negative response, such as hugs or pleasant conversations
This is excellent advice. It accomplishes several things at once. It gives the other person "space," it shows them all the work you've been doing (by its absence), it stops rewarding bad behavior, it constitutes taking care of yourself, it upsets the apple cart, it puts both of you outside the comfort zone, and may even kick you both out of your ruts.
It's interesting that in the quote above (I'm not entirely clear on who was being quoted), it took the person TWO YEARS to start missing their partner... lord...
Thank you all so much for your posts. I've been kind of apathetic about trying this messageboard thing again, but I've got to say that your posts have already encouraged me.
GEL, I think you may be onto something with regard to how my wife's perception of our relationship may have changed after having children. That actually makes a lot of sense and it fits well with my wife's personality. With regard to marriage counseling, three years ago when I first started posting here I had no desire at all to go to marriage counseling. But by the time I took a break from posting, whenever that was, I was all for it. I even asked my wife if she'd be willing to try it and she blatantly refused. I don't think that she wants to admit that we have any problems, plus she's not really the type to open up to anyone about things as personal as sex. I told her that I would consider going without her, but the closest I ever got was to do a freebie counseling session with a pastor at my church. I still think that counseling could help us a lot and I certainly won't rule it out. Unfortunately, getting her to go with me might be more difficult than turning her into a sexual dynamo.
I'd be glad to tell you all about the ways I tried to broach our problems with her, but that could get really long and I don't have the time to address it at the moment. I think it's all pretty well documented in my previous posts, but I don't remember which one of them would be best to look through. To summarize, I started trying to just talk to her about it, always with the intention of being loving and calm, but that nearly always ended up in a heated argument to say the least. Later, I tried writing letters, which I found let me say what I wanted to say without getting side tracked by an argument. The letters were received much better, although she still kind of rolled her eyes whenever I'd hand one to her as if to say "oh great, here we go again". Obviously, they didn't really change anything. I can go into more detail later if you want, but I'll have to review my old posts and refresh my memory.
Mojo, I think that your idea about emotionally distancing myself is a great one. I've tried that before, but I didn't really stick with it as I had a hard time not coming across as cold and angry. But I think it's probably worth another try and I could use some help in coming up with how to go about it. I've been torn between the thought pattern that 1.) regardless of how my wife treats me, I should be a loving husband who does everything possible to make her happy, and 2.) if she's going to treat me like crap I'm going to do the same to her. That's a pretty broad spectrum and I have to find a happy medium. I'll come up with some examples of specific areas where I could change and post them to get your opinion on what might help and what might ultimately make things worse. In the meantime, any suggestions that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
Sooner, I suggest you go to counseling by yourself. This will also help with the distancing thing. The "cr@p for cr@p" approach does not work. In fact, as Mojo pointed out, the only way the distancing thing works is if you do not tolerate being treated like cr@p, AND at the same time you are GAL, being happy with yourself, developing some inner emotional resources so the cr@p treatment doesn't get to you so much. These tactics, in and of themselves, will probably upset the apple cart enough that it will get your W's attention, PLUS get you in a place where you feel happier in general.
What you're doing now from where you are now isn't working so well, so a change of some sort is in order. Why not make a change that is calculated to at least make YOU feel better?
Re Sooner 1992 I should be a loving husband who does everything possible to make her happy, Happy H yes. doing everythin to make her happy=dormat. BE reasonable anf friendly. "Doing Evertyhing" leads to her treating you like a doormat, lowers your value to her in her eyes and you become a servant, you lose your husband status. BTDT, tried some of that behavior.
if she's going to treat me like crap I'm going to do the same to her. Tit for tat is for first graders/boys.
Standing up for yourself/ assertive, not agressive, is being a man. Wives generally use boys but treat H's like men.
I am not claiming to have many answers, just say what what did not work for me.
I started trying to just talk to her about it, always with the intention of being loving and calm Good aproach. Sometimes brutal honesty works the best.
I had a hard time not coming across as cold and angry. Join the club. It is difficult to be caring, firm, not cold, etc. FWIW.
