Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Faking Os and roadblocks to intimacy

Hey, LFL,

Thanks for the F insight. Mucho appreciado.

I found your points on "power" to be interesting. That is the crux of the problem. The fact that men have NO power to control the woman's O and it is maddening!
For guys who need control in the R (I'm not saying that is you), but for them, I think they would not be willing to put up with a woman who did not either a) have authentic O's during sex and/or b) faked O's during sex.

- Yes. I think the main problem is the M misperception that he must create the O within the F. If he would only understand that this logic is equivalent to an F saying it is within her power and responsibility to cause an M to ejaculate after either 30 seconds or 30 minutes. Both logics are very flawed. Luckily I have realized this.

As to the power issue. I know you probably weren't meaning my frustration over not being able to control the O. My frustration strips away the O and is far more fundamental. The F is taking my power away by witholding important information that I feel is quite necessary to EC, trust, and intimacy. It's not for her to decide whether or not my feelings will be hurt or I will feel "less of a man" if she does not O. Especially if she allows the secret to continue indefinitely with dramatic displays of fake pleasure.

Well, of course it is one-dimensional. We were strictly talking about sex and O's. But I still stand by my statements. Given the choice between the two (with everything else fairly equal in the R), men will choose the woman supposedly into sex. Not rocket science here.

- No, definitely not rocket science. A very specific and primal pleasure choice, if you must strip away all of the other complexities of the R and attraction. More like a beer commercial arguing between "less filling" and "tastes great." (shhesh, not tooo dated, Stigmata.)

And I could probably say the same statement on such an basic level. All things being fairly equal and happy in the R, an F will choose an M who enjoys sex over one who does not.

But since M are supposed to be slanted towards the physical while Fs towards the emotional maybe I also could say, all things being fairly equal, the F will choose the M who caresses/cuddles/spoons and listens in bed after sex over an M who participates in the sex then gets up, walks downstairs, and watches Sports Center on ESPN for the next 2 hours on the couch by himself.

The question then has to be asked, how important are these very basic sexual considerations within an committed R? I think we'd agree most humans, M-F alike, prefer to be with someone who enjoys sex, over someone who finds no joy in it. Otherwise, I think there are some definite issues that may need to be dealt with internally in the people, Ms and Fs alike, who want to be with SOs who dislike sex.

...And I also think if both women acted as such from the beginning of the R, that the "not into sex" woman would NOT be making it to stage two, long-term R material.

- Ditto with the M example. The M not into sex from the beginning would not make it to stage 2. And the same in my second example. The wham bam M would not make it to stage 2 with the F if equally compared to the EC cuddler/listener guy., all other things being happy

Thus, MANY women will fake O's at the beginning of R in order to appeal to the man.

- Ahhh, a nugget of gold. I like it, LFL. Good point. Attraction. The initial lure to attract and keep a mate. Kinda like the running joke by comedians that lament that the number of BJs given by an F exponentially drops off the longer she's in the R.

Hmmm, and maybe like an F claiming she was low maintenance until she knew she had the M,, when he discovers she is anything but. I won't elaborate.

So, I guess we can thus say to fake at the early stages of the R, before real deep emotional connection, commitment, and trust is natural and common. But that chit had better stop real quicklike once that level of trust and commitment is established, huh?

And, no, I would never think you were pulling faking to mask the awkwardness of early R sex out of your arse, if you have done it. That's why I am here. That's why I listen very carefully to what the Fs have to say.

...So there is a HUGE push to continue the faking. It is often better for the woman to fake (her rationalization)than to risk having her H feel like she is not a good sexual partner. That can lead to a whole mess of problems much worse than her "lie", like affairs, divorce, etc. Women who fake aren't stupid. They're just practical. And given the number of HD women on this board who have faked at some point in their life, I think it only makes sense that the LD women of the H's on this board are almost certainly faking now and again. I would bet big money on it. But alas, one can never really know for sure. Are there any LD women on this board who want to share?

- Good points. So it all boils down to perception. Perception about what the SO requires (Ms wanting their Fs to have O, for example) and self-perception as to what will elicit an O within an particular F's own physiology/psychology.

Yes it is practical for an F to take the easier road and fake rather than digging deeper into discovering how to reach orgasm within the F body. Know thyself I guess. And this is where my understanding ends as I doo not know why or how one F will claim she has never felt an O throughout her life while another claims she can O just by thought alone.

Hint-hint, Ms. This should tell you you're barking up the wrong tree if you think it's within your power to bring about the O response. If she doesn't have a handle on the whys and hows, how the Hades are you gonna grasp it?

Enigmatic wiring. As individual as fingerprints. And all hand forged by an unknown Creator. Quite beyond our puny human M-F scope and comprehension.

-Stigmata-

...Lou...


Stigmata's replies contained more faking elements/what if’s than I intended for my post to convey. When I post, I usually am thinking about a couple that have some problems but are basically honest and working toward a solution that is equitable for both, considering the circumstances.

- I apologize for any confusion, Lou. I rather thought your list was brilliant and deserves its own thread, ie, "What M Really Want from Sex."

What I did was take your thoughtful insights and illustrate how these open and honest wants or needs can be tainted or destroyed if one involves the title of this thread--Faking. All of those great feelings I felt reading and agreeing with your list are utterly destroyed if I see them in the light of having been "duped."

Mea apologia for ba$tardizing your astute list, Lou...like I said, that list should be a whole one-post thread of its own, where sneaky ba$tards like me can't find a reason to adulterate it.

-Stigmata-

Her year away changed her personality a bit as she was forced to become hyperindependent, which has led her to be more forthright about things.
Sounds like me. But I was forced into that position when H left for almost a year. Either way, it will make people rethink just about everything in their life. Time is a wasten. Might as well be forthright. Nothing left to lose.
Again, I'm happy to hear things are on the right track in your M. Your response to HappyGiant(?) was very insightful. I think the extreme M problems you have been experiencing make it easier for you to see the other person's side of the story. For instance, Mrs HappyGiant. Is she happy with the way the SL is going? Is this what she wants? No! You have the ability to empathize which is very admirable. You are on the right track for sure.
I'm on the larger end of the scale and sex for her can be painful, particularly if lubrication is an issue. Okay okay, I know, it could be that her Vajayjay (Any Grey's Anatomy fans out there? I still laugh when I hear that word) is built a tad small too. Who knows.
First off, I LOVE Grey's Anatomy! Need to watch that every Sunday. I'm dumping Desperate Housewives (getting bored with it) in favor of The Sopranos which started again this week. Finally. Ok, too much off-topic convo as usual. Don't get me started
I would say that before she left for the year, we would O-sync over half the time
hmmm..I have to agree with the Lil and OT on this one and say that may be a red flag for faking. Personally, I have had that happen...less than 3 times...ever. But I also don't O as easily with the man inside me, and always need clitoral stimulation at the same time. Maybe GEL could chime in here since she O's only vaginally. Can you reach O at the same time as your H, GEL? (if you don't mind sharing). That is Very hard to do. And personally, I will say that I am also guilty of faking that move in the past myself Guys seem to like that one, so what the heck, might as well give them the ultimate grand finale
That was back in my college days when I thought I could get away with anything (well, you usually can with college guys, duh) So just keep it in mind Mr_MD. You guys are young. Still lots to learn and f-up

md wrote

Quote:

---

How do you approach her about this? When? I've spoken to her about admitted faking during our year apart on our 'conjugal visits', but spoke on the assumption that that wasn't a problem before.

---

IMHO I would NOT bring it up. That's past. Start with where you are now. To resurrect that issue to me would be like going in the back yard and diggin up a body that's been there for a year. You said it in your post: it hasn't been a problem. So don't make it one.

You might at the right moment, say something like this ONCE and then drop it: "I love it when we come together, but I also love it a lot when you come without me, because then I can focus on all your sensations and really see and hear you. You are so beautiful at that moment"-- or something like that. But don't make a major issue out of it.

That is sage advice! I will heed it directly! Thanks! That makes a ton of sense to me and it seems dead on.


Mr. MD

RE OT
It is difficult if for no other reason that when a man is about to O he changes things, and changing things often causes a woman to at least temporarily stop progressing toward O.
Good information to post OT.

I realized my O process altered her O process but I usually thought it made both of our O processes/feelings heighten. I am seeing where it may have had the opposite effect.

About the M not O'ing at about the same time as the FM, well when BB was about to have an O, I got so excited it was difficult to restrain my O unless I was working for a while and actually developed side cramps prior to BB's O.

I thought I experienced BB having stronger O's when I O'ed about the same time. Maybe I/we did, maybe I just thought we did, because my senses were being flooded with so many good feelings.

RE Lil
simultaneous O about four times in my whole life. It's "O"-kay , but not the be-all and end-all. Not something I work toward or care too much about. If anything, separate O's enable you to really get into your partner's in a way that you can't if you are O-ing at the same time.
More good information Lil. I used to think O'ing at the same time was the preferred goal. The supposed, 120% way to have sex, I can now see, might actually lead to less total enjoyment. I can understand the value in savoring the separate experiences.

Ditto on the Astroglide. KY Warming is sticky and seems to dry out fast to me. I feel BB's discomfort when things are tight/not lubed enough/uncomfortable and that takes away from the overall feeling of togetherness/pleasure.


RE Stigmata
Mea apologia for ba$tardizing your astute list, Lou
Stigmata, no offence taken or need for a Mea apologia. I guess I was just explaining something that I might have included in my origional or pervious post.

Like I have said before, sometimes I don't write everything I think or feel as well as I would like to or wish I could explain some things. It's that old feeling many people have, s/he wrote it better than I did, or “That is exactly what I really was thinking but did not explain it that well."

Now, OT, you may scratch your head and wonder how the he!! I managed to zip through your painted tunnel...Meep-Meep!
Your painted tunnel and meep meep post, is one example of your ability to make a message come alive. Keep posting.

RE LFL
Lil, and now LFL, say O'ing at the same time is rare. Geez, other women have to tell me what I thought was happening was a rarity.

back in my college days when I thought I could get away with anything (well, you usually can with college guys, duh)
Well LFL, If I am/was a college boy, I will admit it. It was fun anyway.

Thanks for learning me the right way ladies. grammatical mistake intended) Corrected to; Thank you and others for informing me of the possibilities.

Maybe that 400/500? level " Deviant Sexual Behaviors "class in college I attended should have covered faking?

Lou

Lou,

I'm with Lil and LFL on the rarity of O'ing together. Just speaking from my own experience I can only think of one time I actually O'd at the same time as my partner, but I actually had just began O'ing then he did...so it ended up simultaneous that way.

I agree....the necessary motion usually is interrupted when the man O's to continue to get the woman there at the same time....so that usually, well....kills the O for me. I totally enjoy having them separately. For me it makes me feel so special to have my H concentrate on me completely, and then for me to concentrate on him and fully get to enjoy the experience when he O's.

Just my 2-cents.

GEL

GEL, all I can say is wow/surprise/I never knew, that is before this thread.

I tried to hold back when I thought BB was O'ing but couldn't sometimes. Her excitement made it almost impossible for me to contain myself. I thought it was the way things worked (biology) and part of the big plan to preserve the species.

There are even TV programs stating that O’ing at the same time increases the chance of conception and is one of natures tricks/gifts/ways of passing on genes.

So some of the sex scientist’s have it a little wrong or are missing some things.? “Veery Interesting”
(Rowan & Martin’s “Laugh In“ 196-1973)

I can see your and other women's point, that
a) O'ing at the same time mess with you O process and can de-rail or diminish it.
b) O'ing at different times can be like two people each playing a different song ( every persons feelings are different), and each song is more appreciated separately than if played at the same time.
c) O'ing at different times can lead to the W feeling like she has the H full attention, which she also enjoys, in addition to the sexy feelings.
and d) the W also has a gift that she feels is more appreciated when given in an environment without so much going on. Kind of like giving something to someone. You say why you gave it. The other person listens to all you have to say w/o interrupting, you feel heard, respected, You got your 2 cents out w/o being blocked or side tracked.

Lou

Lou,

I can sort of understand how some Dr's may say that there is a medical benefit to O'ing at the same time....although I've never heard that myself. However, in my experience it rarely ever happens. I can certainly understand why it would be difficult if not darned near impossible for a man to hold back when a woman is near an O LOL.

Just to be flat out honest here....that was honestly the most frequent time that I would fake an O....when my XH would be having one, or would appear close to one. It seemed to make him happy, so I did it....even though at that time, I didn't know what one even felt like. I don't do that now though, not gonna rob myself of that experience LOL.

(Confession time here too....I have to admit everytime I see you write BB on here I chuckle to myself. My nickname for my son is....Booger Butt LOL. Not very attractive I know but I'm constantly wiping that little nose of his LOL. That's what I think of everytime I see BB )

GEL