Quote: When he says he is afraid to approach you after being apart for a while, could he be experiencing the same fears he felt as a child when wondering how to please his father?
Possibly, who knows.
I can guarantee one thing, though: He would *never* put anyone else off to the extent that he does me. He has said this. He would not consider for one moment ignoring anyone else, only me. This both flatters me and infuriates me, as you can imagine!
His dad is really healthy and in good shape. Very active. I can't imagine that H is worrying about him. He claims to be a very simple sort of person who would not make the mental leap from watching my dad die to worrying about his own father. On the occasions when I've tried to 'dig deep' and ask him about his deep feelings, he just shrugs and says that he's really not the sort to ponder that stuff. The natural reaction to this is to assume that he's hiding himself, or too shy to become vulnerable but after living with him all these years I can say that he does show his vulnerability when the urge strikes him, but it is just very rare.
He's more of a 'typical' guy who has a hard time accessing his deeper emotions. Also typical in the sense that if he thinks he is failing me in some regard, he retreats into his shell and ignores it altogether.
I used to think that the Mars/Venus books didn't apply to us whatsoever, based on the fact that I have a higher drive than him, but nowadays I'm not so sure. He sure acts like a dude, and I can get emotional with the best of em.
At any rate, if one was a people pleaser don't you think that would include a desire to do things that the aforementioned people WANT? That's the part I don't get.
One inkling that he's failed or is about to fail and he disappears (figuratively, of course).
Quote: Believe me, honey, you'll never find a Four encouraging you to shove your darker feelings aside and just "act cheerful."
That's for sure . I was just thinking about how my problem is the opposite of HP's. My H finds me MORE sexually appealing or at least he initiates more when I act cool, withdrawn, subdued or depressed. The problem is that I have no desire to actually feel or behave that way. I prefer to feel and act warm (hot ), social, enthusiastic and happy.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
He is usually able to funny me out of whatever mood I'm in. The death of a parent has caused him to have to haul out other forms of comfort and he's done pretty good at it. But now that we are making tentative steps towards a normal life again, he wants me to be fully recovered. He doesn't *expect* it, but the unspoken pressure is there nonetheless. It's been all I can do to remain differentiated enough to do what I need to do and not get caught up in his attempts to re-awaken the Old Me. As a Seven, I'd much rather find some fun distraction (and did for a time) than grieve but my mind won't let me rest. I woke up at 5 this morning and my dad's given name was the first thought in my head. (no you sickos, this was *before* H and I ML, sheesh!)
The thought was running through my mind last night that I wish I had a man whose desire was not dependent on so many things. I cannot imagine what it would be like, anymore, to have a man want me simply because I'm there.
In my feministic days of old, I'd have rather clawed my eyes out than hoped for a day when I'd think it was cool that someone wanted me cause I was THERE!
Ok, scratch that thought. I didn’t know what condition his dad is in.
He's more of a 'typical' guy who has a hard time accessing his deeper emotions.
I don’t think this is true of guys. It is stereotypical of how women see guys, but I think guys know exactly what they are feeling. They don’t want to face it and so deflect those thoughts, but I think most know exactly how they feel.
At any rate, if one was a people pleaser don't you think that would include a desire to do things that the aforementioned people WANT? That's the part I don't get.
No, not at all. I think people pleasers are trying to control chaos and avoid confrontation. They please out of fear not out of love. He has no fear of you so he feels no compulsion to please you. You are safe ground to him, so yes, you should take this as a compliment of sorts. He needs to realize how captive he is to his fears.
One inkling that he's failed or is about to fail and he disappears (figuratively, of course).
That would make sense, don’t you think? He was fearful of his dad and his anger, blaming, etc. If the father is so dominant that the kids cannot express their feelings and anger, the only thing left is to withdraw. The self esteem takes a mighty big hit. It seems to me there may be a lot of similarity between your H and Chrome. Maybe Chrome could give us some insight.
Yes there are a lot of similarities and, get this, I even thought that Chrome looked like him minus 7 inches or so! And I vaguely resemble Chrome's wife. Weird, eh.
H has horrible self esteem, one of the things that he rather easily admits.
As far as men accessing their feelings, you think so? I find that H definitely *has* emotions but they are nowhere near as frequent or intense as my own. Only as it concerns religion do I see any real passion from him. (and by passion I mean intense emotion, obviously)
Or.....how's this. He's emotional but not verbal about it. He feels but has a hard time putting it into words. Nor is he all that inclined to try. He'd rather go DO something. That's what I meant about typical.
I do take the people-pleaser-but-not-necessarily-my-wife stuff as a compliment. He does try to please me, for sure, but he stops short of anything that might require him to step out of his comfort zone. Well, that's not entirely true. He stops short of making OutsideComfortZone behavior a regular part of his life. He doles it out occasionally and hopes that will suffice.
As far as men accessing their feelings, you think so? I find that H definitely *has* emotions but they are nowhere near as frequent or intense as my own.
How would you know this? You know how intensely you feel something, but can he see it? And if he feels something, that doesn’t mean he will show it.
Only as it concerns religion do I see any real passion from him. (and by passion I mean intense emotion, obviously)
Doesn’t this follow the model? Religion is safe to get emotional over since he is not revealing anything about himself.
Personally I think this people pleaser matter is a pretty big deal for your H, big enough to dig into and possibly big enough to realize some changes in how he relates to you.
"Yes there are a lot of similarities and, get this, I even thought that Chrome looked like him minus 7 inches or so! And I vaguely resemble Chrome's wife. Weird, eh."
Well, we already have BF and Stig as Dopplegangers on this board why not a Doppleganger quartet? And if you resemble my W, you must be one hot lady!!!
"H has horrible self esteem, one of the things that he rather easily admits."
Have you been following up any on the affirmations, self-esteem talking points with him?
"Or.....how's this. He's emotional but not verbal about it. He feels but has a hard time putting it into words. Nor is he all that inclined to try. He'd rather go DO something. That's what I meant about typical."
That is the essential difference I think between most men and most women. The cultural training we men have makes it hard for us to vocalize our feelings well (most of us). I know I struggle with it mightily.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
As far as my picture, you know, I posted one on this bb when I was 9 mos pregnant...oh yeah, lookin good, HP.
I tried to find a more recent pic and all I could find was one taken a year ago. And it wasn't very good either. I suppose I am the picture taker rather than subject. I was going to take a recent one this past weekend but the battery was dead. Go figure. I'll try to get something posted some time.
Had a convo last night with H that I will recount here but first let me say that we are under a tremendous amount of stress due to our upcoming move on Friday. How's that for a disclaimer, lol.
When I am under stress, ALL of my patience disappears and I remove the filter between what I think and what I say. In fact, I think I would appear closer to my BB Persona than I do in real life. IRL I am much more diplomatic and sweet than I am here, aren't you lucky. I was feeling hot to trot all day long and kept thinking, I am sexy... and other such goofy thoughts. Feeling really good, IOW. So H is initiating last night and he made 2 separate comments that were placating and little boy-ish and, man, it ruined any desire for sex I had. I tried to blow those comments off..after all, our sexual encounters are not going to be perfect and I'm sure there's times when he has to shake off goofy things I do or say. But due to the intense stress we are under, I just got real short and testy with him and called the whole thing off.
A convo ensued in which he said that he does not feel arousal until *I* am aroused. I pointed out that it puts an unfair burden on me (to get both of us aroused) and, furthermore, when do I get to become aroused at the sight/sounds of someone diggin me? His 'system' excludes that possibility.
At the end of the day, I just didn't have enough patience to nicely present all of this and I'm afraid that I was abrupt and somewhat rude. However, the funny thing is that *this* is what he responds to. He will snap to attention. I used to use this to my advantage until I realized that, although he was doing things the way I wanted, it wasn't because we got along so well, it was because he feels comfy being ordered around. So I stopped it.
However, last night I shut him down rather rudely and today I'm wondering what to think: Is this desire-after-arousal thing a legitimate reason for me always going "first"? Cause I think it sucks but there have been, and continue to be, many things about my life which suck and I adjust just fine.
Oh and I asked him if he ever thinks about sex during the day (I do and I was thinking about it a lot yesterday, as I was in a sexy mood) and he said No, and went on to describe how it just doesn't enter his mind. I add this not to point out anything wrong with this way of thinking, only to illustrate how far away it is from my own POV and what a bummer it is that we can't share this in common, the way we do so many other things.
Honeypot, who is trying to keep focused on packing when there are so many other fun things in the world to do, like take the kids to the zoo
. I was just thinking about how my problem is the opposite of HP's. My H finds me MORE sexually appealing or at least he initiates more when I act cool, withdrawn, subdued or depressed. The problem is that I have no desire to actually feel or behave that way. I prefer to feel and act warm (hot 
), social, enthusiastic and happy. 
