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Frank, you sound like you're in a good place for YOU right now, that you can say that your glass is more than half full. Work on getting it full. You handled yesterday really well.

Sounds like your W has a LOT of issues with her own individuality, feeling like she is needy and needs to follow her impulses, etc. This has NOTHING to do with you...it's a stage where she's being self-centered. She's testing whether being an individual and being married are mutually exclusive, and you're just showing her that they're not. You can be a couple that has a night where each does something different, and still be OK. People can have their space and be in love.

Hang in there. Just be yourself, give her space and take care of YOU. You DO deserve better, but also be patient with a person you love while they figure their life out.

W spent all day working, doing massages. Came home around 6 pm pretty exhausted and I took her and D10 out for dinner. W was VERY happy about that. During dinner I thought she was going to fall asleep.

We got home and she asked me to rub her back, then her feet, then her knees.... So I spent about 2 hours watchng TV and doing various acts of service on her sore muscles. It was very surprising that she was so tired, yet stayed up till 10:30 watching TV with me and letting me give to her. Finally she decided she had to go to bed and told me she would 'pay me back' tomorrow because all she did was take, and not give me anything back. I kissed her on the forehead and told her that she does so much for others and that she doesn't owe me anything.

I didn't want to linger, so I got a glass of water and then said goodnite and walked slowly upstairs. As I was walking away I heard her say 'Have sweet dreams'.

So, for today the downward cycle has stopped. Now we're at 'level'.

The thing is, if she were 'single' living on her own she would come home to an empty house or apt, still tired, but nobody there to care for her like I just did. Maybe she'd have a roommate who might, but she can't do that if she want's shared custody of the kids. She'd have to come home to them, still feed them and do all the other household chores and not get any care for herself from anyone because she is ALONE.

That may not be a reason to stay married to ME, but if she thinks that the caring and nurturing I showed her tonite was something you'd get from 'a friend' she's nuts.

Well, at least I wasn't overly nice. Just very caring. I feel better now. Tomorrow I'll be more detached.

This morning was quiet. At one point W was jokingly complaining that she wanted some 'pop tarts' but there weren't any. I said I'd go get them and she replied that I didn't have to keep doing things all the time. I told her I LIKE doing things for people, especially her. So after a minute of getting it to sink in that I wasn't doing things to 'get her back' or something she added a few other things to the 'list' and I went to the store. When I came back she was grateful.

I had to then go pick up D15 from a sleepover and W came over to me and gave me a hug saying "You're so busy with us this morning".

Little later this morning she asked me about putting up a new decorative wall light we bought BEFORE the bomb. So we talked about the things we'd need to do and made a plan. Just trying to make our house look nicer I guess.

She took off to go with D10 to sell Girl Scout cookies.

While she's out, her friend who I did a lot of work with to make a massage video, for practically free, calls. W is planning on going to her house tonite to swap massages. Now, I don't really like this person that much now that I have seen her actions during our crisis.

She has taken W to an Xmas party as a 'single' and has an attitude that if you are following 'your path' whatever you do is ok, even of it ends your marriage because you are supposed to be in a 'higher place' and it's all part of your kids 'life lessons' too. I mentioned this to MY counselor months ago, who is a spiritual counselor also, and she said that the major spiritual rule is NOT to harm others because you will build up bad energy. C's opinion is this girl has a lot of unfinished emotional business in her life and is ignoring it. She is one of the TWO people W talks to abou ther OM experience and other stuff and surprisingly enough those two women are single, 30'ish, way overweight and not very successful in relationships.

And, for someone who I did so much stuff for, putting in about 80- hours with her making her a video DVD which she sells at her classes she teaches, she has NEVER e-mailed me in 3 months to see how I am doing. But she HAS asked W to ask me to make changes to their website to put her B.S. 'Goddess name' up instead of her real name. OH, and she did e-mail me once asking how to set up her e-mail on a new computer. But didn't ask how I was doing.

There is no place in my heart for someone like that. She knows what W did with OM, and before she DID it I talked with her about it, and how much it would hurt me, and she didn't do anything to influence her to stop what she was doing. How can I like someone like that? And she's studying to be a 'Spiritual Counselor'?

So, I answer the phone and she knows it's me and asks me 'how are you doing?' like we're old friends. I say I'm fine and tell her W is not here and she should call her cell. She says 'ok' I say BYE. End of conversation.

It's causes me anxiety that she's going to visit her tonite. But I know it's (a) Sunday, so she won't be going 'out'. and (b) W is looking forward to a massage very much as she needs it badly. and (c) She plans on coming home late, not staying overnite. and (d) the more I support W in doing this the more she will feel like the 'cage door' will stay open no matter what.

It still pushes my buttons though. I have this vision in my mind that this 'friend' will have some 'social event' set up and want to take W with her. Probably my own insecurities.

Even if she DID, it might be good for W to meet more losers so she can see how lucky she is to have me.

These are MY insecurities. I need to suppress them.

So, overall W is still keeping her distance. I was hopeful a week ago, now I"m back to just working my detachment. It is interesting to notice that last nite, when she was in need of love and nurturing she stayed with me till she got it from me. Isn't that what a relationship is all about?

i"m blah today. And we haven't had sex or done any of the intimate things we were doing in 10 days. No cuddling, no happy hugs, just 'friend' hugs every other day.

Moral of the story: Do not set expectations.

Frank, you are a dream. You really are. I read about you guys going through this and you have all turned yourselves into these storybook H's. Even when times were good my H wouldn't have gone out of his way to do something like run to the store for pop tarts. He did other things, but I've come to realize he did them for how they made HIM feel, not for how they'd make me feel.

Your W would be blind and dumb not to see what she has right now, something most of us women would cut off an arm to be able to have. She won't let go of that so easily. You warm my heart every day! You are a wonderful, wonderful man. I wish there were more of you in the world...can we clone you?

Or at the very least can we create a Wallace and Grommit type machine to put your brain waves into our H's as a part of some therapy?

Thanks for your kind words Becca. I needed to grow up and learn how to truly love a woman. It isn't that I have become her slave, doing everything she ever asks. It's knowing what's important and when to say no. I'll make someone a good husband some day. I still have to finish getting myself esteeem totally up there and get out of my depression. For the first 3 months I had to be strong till my cup was so empty it was negative. Now I have to truly start to build myself up, and it's still hard to do all alone. I could sure use HER support but I don't get it from anybody.

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Frank, you are a dream. You really are. I read about you guys going through this and you have all turned yourselves into these storybook H's. Even when times were good my H wouldn't have gone out of his way to do something like run to the store for pop tarts. He did other things, but I've come to realize he did them for how they made HIM feel, not for how they'd make me feel.

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In my case I did it for how we would BOTH feel. I feel good to do something nice for her, and she feels good knowing I DID something nice for her. I think in the 'old days' I would do it - if ASKED. But not just because she mentions 'we don't have any'. She didn't ask, I wanted to do something nice.

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Your W would be blind and dumb not to see what she has right now, something most of us women would cut off an arm to be able to have. She won't let go of that so easily. You warm my heart every day! You are a wonderful, wonderful man. I wish there were more of you in the world...can we clone you?

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You sound like my counselor. She is still thinking W is just slow to realize that the world is not full of good men. That and the fact that for many years I was a 'good man' who was very, very unhappy and sometimes not fun to be around. The sucky thing is that the friends she talks to the most don't talk to me or have any idea what has changed. So, they probably think her whole life is my fault still and don't point out the good in me.

The friends who DO talk to me do not talk to her much. She seems to avoid them, possibly because they are also the ones who didn't support her OM regardless of what they may or may not have thought of me. At least Counselor does put thngs in a positive perspective once a week...

Other than that, nobody is on 'my side', which is really "Our Side".


She just left a few minutes ago to go to her friends house. Everyone ins being needy here (D15, D10) and she put her hand on my cheek and asked 'Are YOU going to be ok?' to which I said "I'm fine, nothing wrong with me. Have a good time".

I'm slowly thinking that she went through that 'week of connection' with me to help her feel desirable and lovable since she got screwed over by OM. It seems like all of a sudden she got scared she was depending on ME again for her self worth and shut it all down. That has affected MY feelings and I am coming across as slightly needy.

I hope this doesn't mean she was going through a phase and is now back on course for her 'independence' and divorce mode.

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It isn't that I have become her slave, doing everything she ever asks. It's knowing what's important and when to say no.

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Exactly. When my H talks of men who do as you do right now, he refers to them as being P*ssy whipped or whatever. He doesn't even realize that it is just a loving thing to do. It has nothing to do with being a slave or giving in to the demands of another, it is loving that person and giving to them because you love them. I pray that my H will learn what you have learned.

STOP! Just stop it! She can plan all she wants, doesn't mean she won't change her mind a dozen times before she figures out what is right.

I had this conversation with my therapist last week about H's cousin "J" and what a bad influence he is. I blame J for many of our problems because H worships the ground he walks on. My C brought up a good point, J can be all the bad influence he wants, in the end, it is H that makes his own decisions. J isn't forcing him to do anything. If H chooses to follow whatever path J leads him on then that is H's fault, not J's.

You take a deep breath. You are doing SO VERY WELL, you are not failing. There are going to be ups and downs. Remember the rollercoaster of when you first started this, this is nothing compared to that! This is just one more test....don't let it get to you.