I got an off the wall idea. You must know by now there are many of those here as we are all a little crazy by now. So realize also as every thread owner should, that we also post for the lurkers. Maybe we need thread for Advice to Lurkers.
Is there a free or cheap workshop in your area on meditation? If you have not yet felt a change in your spiritual source of strength here is what I am suggesting. Find a workshop on basic meditation. Learning to do this will clear your mind when you just feel like you need to 'reboot the system'.
You can learn to go more quickly to this point of clarity and release some immediate thought that you can not shake on your own. With a clear head great things happen. You get a fresh start on the next hour. The person I have been working with was introduced through our mainstream church to a small group of interested folks. Free. Once a week.
He can go deep into all origins of meditation in Eastern religions. This simply is the source of the technique. You do not have to convert to a different religion to meditate. What we have been learning are skills that help the mind and body. God wants us all to take care of ourself. We are learning to open our hearts in this peaceful time, and feel an inner presence we have not been giving ourselves quality time with. I believe that force is the presence of God. He is everywhere, and with everyone. We have to learn to listen to Him better. He is not going to thump us on the head with an answer otherwise.
You can get as much, or as little from trying meditation as you are comfortable with. But if you keep an open mind, you may find an amazing source of strength in your heart. It is a GAL of the highest level. It can be one that will comfort you with any outcome as being right for you. No judgement here Frank. We don't know each other as well as I hope we will. You have done great work with Shark and I greatly appreciate that; along with every other poster you help.
I am just not comfortable having an idea that may help you or someone else, and not sharing. It would be like stealing what may be the last hope from someone else out there we haven't even heard from yet.
Make this a great day Frank, and then celebrate in it.
Quote: Shark is getting pretty smart, Frank. Aren't you glad for all that time you spent cultivating him . Now he's working on YOU! HA!
See, you reap what you sow! A good man like Shark who is willing to say it like it is, but not to use his words to cause harm, is very hard to find.
Quote: When are you going to be confident enough in yourself (and dare I say, in God) that you are no longer so controlled by your circumstances (i.e: your wife)? You would do well to strive to be the same in attitude and emotion regardless of what she does, says or acts like. How in the world are you going to do THAT you ask? Well, you Frank, need FAITH - and in something other than FRANK.
So far YOU are doing all the work, you leave nothing to God. You're working your tail off. How long before you see that although good things do happen occasionally, a brick wall is still a brick wall.
He's knocking. But you won't stop manuevering and strategizing long enough to answer the freakin' door
Well.
I've been alone so long, and have lost so much faith in humanity that I don't let go of my attempts to control my environment and those who are in it.
I don't know what 'work' God or any other 'higher power' will do for my situation, or the 'brick wall'. It has never been my understanding that you 'get what you want' through prayer. I usually only pray for strength, and for others to be protected. Not much else.
I CAN see that I need to be confident in myself, and allow life to happen, knowing that I am a good and decent man and that whatever happens, that will never change. You are right about faith. Having faith in ANYTHING has not been one of my strong points. To me, everything is a problem to be 'solved' and that's what I do - 'solve problems'. Hard ones.
This has been a problem that I CANNOT solve using my normal, logical brain. It consumes too much of my thoughts because of this. And I HAVE given her too much power over my life.
I guess what I hear you saying is that I should give it a rest and stop trying so hard. Perhaps I am interfering with God's work? With my own work?
I'm just not sure what thoughts to put 'in place of' the ones I have now. I'll have to think on that.
Quote: I got an off the wall idea. You must know by now there are many of those here as we are all a little crazy by now. So realize also as every thread owner should, that we also post for the lurkers. Maybe we need thread for Advice to Lurkers.
I think some of us are well beyond 'a little crazy'.
Quote: Is there a free or cheap workshop in your area on meditation? If you have not yet felt a change in your spiritual source of strength here is what I am suggesting. Find a workshop on basic meditation. Learning to do this will clear your mind when you just feel like you need to 'reboot the system'.
It's interesting that you mention this right now. My Wife has an opportunity to 'teach' the type of massage she has been learning, and part of the teaching is directing a meditation. The other day she said she'd like to work out her 'script' with me. I'm willing to work with her on it, but I think finding someone else is a better choice for my growth.
I DO think that your idea has a lot of merit, especially given the timing of you saying it. It has seemed like whenever I need 'something' it has presented itself to me when I am in the 'right' emotional place where I will accept it, or 'hear the message', rather than when I would have rejected it.
3 things were presented to me today.
The teacher for the massage retreat W went to in Hawaii called me today, partly to 'get my cell phone number' (I don't believe that, he knows it) and mostly to ask how I have been doing. He was really gklad that OM was gone, as he did not like him and thought W was making a huge mistake. He also went out of his way to impress on me the FACT that most of W's massage / retreat friends are 'rooting' quietly for her and I to find our way clear to a new relationship together. They think she is lost, as was I. And now I am not lost.
Second, Amy pushing my 'faith' button. I used to have faith that my life would always work out ok, no matter what. I have survived events MUCH worse than this because of it. I will nurture that faith again.
Third, from you. I have never learned how to find that quiet space where I can find the point of clarity I need. My mind is NEVER quiet. I know my W says a lot of good things about meditation, as do others. It's something I need to examine now for my own sake.
Today will be a good day. Thank you Was2Sad, Amy, Shark, Always_14 and others.
I see that I need to make another 'transition' to the next level. And that's what this journey is really all about - living at a higher level than we have been living in for years.
Yesterday afternoon I was talking to W and she said that she noticed I was 'preoccupied' with something the past couple days. I told her about a project I am working on for a client and how it is way behind. Then she said that it seemed like I was uncomfortable around her. So, I told her that the past few days her interactions with me had changed,and it appeared to me that she wanted her space, so I have been giving it to her.
She replied that 'things are still the same, I just don't need as much as I did last week'.
Ok. So she's saying nothing has changed, I can approach her, she just is cooled down, probably was getting afraid she would become 'needy' and dependent on me.
We talked about some other issues but nothing else about our 'weird relationship'. I had to go and before I left I walked up to her and kissed her on the cheek and said goodbye. She said bye and I left. Ok, no 'asserting herself' or 'pulling away'.
I saw Counselor, told her about the 'sudden' change in W's attitude towards me and the things W had said about 'filling her cup'.
C's opinion, which is based of course on her knowing W, is that it's a cycle. W still believes in the 'Hollywood' love story. The 'deep passionate love' that we see in the movies. C has been working on waking her up to reality, that real love is a choice and is much different. C says that during last weeks session she addressed those concepts and when she said to W that 'You have a man who is all you've been wanting right in front of you', that W got all teary eyed.
I also mentioned that W is not putting the kind of effort into her new business that I would put into it. She is waiting for customers to show up, referred to her by the Salon she is now working in. I would not wait for someone else to get me customers, I'd be out there IN the salon giving free shoulder rubs or other things to get known.
W is afraid of strangers, and not confident enough. I was like that when I started my last business but I FORCED myself to change. I went from a computer programmer who used to work in a cubicle to a man who went to local organizations and gave presentations on the Internet and how it could benefit your business in front of hundreds of people. Believe me, the first few had me shaking! You just have to do it.
So, in summary C said she totally believes that W 'wants to love me' as evidenced by the intimacy we shared most of last week, the sitting together and spending quality time, and the physical stuff, all expressions of love no matter how you look at it.
But she is also holding on to this notion that she is 'missing something', this 'Hollywood' love and of course, her fear of losing her 'independence'. She is afraid to make the wrong choice of a man, and that includes me. I have an advantage and a handicap in this regard. The advantage is that she knows me, and she knows what I am capable of as a friend, lover, provider and father. The disadvantage is she knows me and has seen me stop loving myself, fall down, and not get up for a long time. It's a tough place to be.
As we recall, that meeting was followed by W telling me at dinner that I was now 'allowed' to initiate anything I want with her, giving me 'permission' to hug, kiss, suggest other things. We had 2 more days of closeness, then she went away for a day and came back disconnected again.
So, C says keep doing what I'm doing, continue to be patient, and give her time to work on helping W to see the world clearly, not through 'Hollywood Glasses'.
Today is her next meeting with C so I'm sure there will be another shift. WHATEVER it is I will make myself stay neutral and not read anything into it.
This morning W played 'I hurt my hand so I can't do X' and was pouty, a little playful. I held her hand and 'felt sorry for her' and kissed it to 'make it better'. She smiled and was happier. It's one of those little 'love games' we used to play so she could see if I still cared. Then she disconnected again.
Well, end of the day catch up. I think I log too much. I took what Amy said to heart and focused on getting work done, and doing my best to have faith that the rest of the world will take care of itself, including my wife.
W saw counselor today but hasn't said anything about it. She seemed in an ok mood.
We went to a little play our D10 was in at the school. W sat next to me and was very pleasnt to be with but not flirty. A couple we know sat in front of us, they know about our divorce situation. The guy said 'hey, you're looking good' because I've lost 20 lbs. I said 'yeah, I know you will aspire to look like me since I am so good looking!". W had a laugh. Then the Guy friend said he had quit his job and was now a 'consultant'. He hated the people he worked for and was now much more relieved. Then W chimes in and says "Frank did the same thing, he became a consultant so he didn't have to work for people he didn't like". That was interesting that she said that, I took it as 'bragging'. Maybe reading too much into it.
Later this evening she was sitting onthe couch watching TV. I sat on it also, and since her feet were near me I looked at her at one point and she looked at me, then her feet, then smiled. So of course I offered to massage her feet. Which I did for about an hour. The TV shows ended and it was late so we said our 'good nites' and went to our rooms. She also mentioned that she was getting back on her diet again and was having trouble because we have boxes of Girl Scout cookies in the house.
Hey, at least she can't give me grief that it's MY fault for bringing junk food into the house. In fact she hasn't had anything about me to complain about in a while.
I have been maintaining my detached friendlyness that seems to attract her, and she feels comfortable. It had an effect last time we got close. It's a silly game we play.
I sure wish I knew her thought processes that caused he to go alien this week.
Hmm, this morning is part of the continued downward cycle. W was pleasant but seemingly uncaring. It's raining which always makes most people in SoCal blah since it's almost always sunny. I mentioned this but she said she wasn't feeling blah at all. I told her I would take D10 to school and she got on me, saying I had stated yesterday that I am going to work earlier and staying longer this week because I had some projects that I have to get done so I should let her take her.
I said I wanted to spend the time with D10 this morning and it'll be fine.
She also told me that D10 would have to be alone from 5-7 while she went to do some massages tonite. I said I would come home then and she again gave me grief because I had said I needed to lock myself away at the office so I could get this project off my back. I said that it's doesn't seem to be practical right now, and I don't want D10 alone that long. I decided to compromise and said I'd come home by 6 so she's only alone for a little while.
She gave me some grief last nite too because I chose to stop working at 9pm and spend a couple hours with her watching TV and massaging her feet, which she liked. I told her she is a slave driver and she laughed.
I think she is testing to see if I will DO what I SAY. I am, but it's turning out that I can only keep focus for a few hours , then I need to get away from working. Or, maybe she wants me the hell out of the house. I don't know. I must be giving off 'needy' signals.
Later I walked into her room and she was sitting on her bed facing away from the door. She layed down so she could see me over her head. As she was lying on her bed looking up at me I stood over her head and told her she looked funny upside down. Then I bent down and kissed her on the lips. She didn't kiss back at all. Ice Queen. So I said 'you even kiss funny upside down'.
As a last 'test' I said to her that I didn't have to go for a half hour so maybe we could go 'play' a little, to start our day with some good energy! She said "No, I'm not in the mood, maybe some other time." I smiled and said 'ok!' and left the room.
Got my stuff together and walked to the door. I walked by her, kind of close and said a loud 'BYE!' with a smile, she said 'BYE' and stood there for a second. I said 'SEE YOU LATER!' and she said 'ME TOO'. I was waiting for her to do something but she didn't, she turned and walked into her room. I left.
I don't get this at all. Last week, and last friday nite we're close and intimate while watching TV. Sunday she comes back from an overnite at her friends determined not to become dependent on me 'filling her cup' and is pretty cold and keeps her distance. Stays distant all week. Last nite she's outgoing and friendlier but this morning she's back to being distant.
I foolishly let myself get used to the attention of last week. And she's making 'divorce' related comments more often. Hadn't heard her say anything for a while.
It was good while it lasted though. It's like a drug - you get a 'fix' and you want more. Suddenly your source is gone and you're off balance.
Maybe it's because we're just getting into a new moon phase?
I guess I should ignore her completely. I've reached out to her and gotten blocked.
I rented "Don Juan DeMarco" and hopefully we will watch it tonite. It's supposed to be a good chick flick or couples movie.
Frank, you've come so far. Now, let go. Detach, whatever you want to call it.
NO expectations, she senses that and is not giving it to you. She's still thinking through a lot of things, so is confused and will be moody. Who knows what causes it...you're doing your best and that's all that matters. The rest is her emotions to sort though--so don't let it affect YOU. I had a HARD time doing this, but it's really working. It's good for you and for W, because it gives her the room to feel what she wants, act how she wants and not worry "geez, I had a confusing week and now Frank is all upset and I need to feel guilty for making him feel that way...resentment." You know the dance.
Focus on work, your house, your fun. Focus on you and what a great catch of a H you are. You need to keep saying this to yourself at least 100 times a day. Think of all the great things you did in your M for her, and now. How patient you are, and how worthy you are of her love and of a great M. It will come to you, but don't chase it. Just act like you deserve it in every action. Take back the control to your emotions.
When you start feeling like pursuing her (asking her questions, doing little things when she does not reciprocate or initiate) what can you do to divert yourself? Walk out of the room in a friendly way, change your thoughts?
Wait for her to initiate activities...or if you do, you did a great job today of cheerfully saying OK, no sweat.
Well said, I can relate to everything in your post. It's very clear to me what I should be doing.
I especially like this:
Quote: Focus on work, your house, your fun. Focus on you and what a great catch of a H you are. You need to keep saying this to yourself at least 100 times a day. Think of all the great things you did in your M for her, and now. How patient you are, and how worthy you are of her love and of a great M. It will come to you, but don't chase it. Just act like you deserve it in every action. Take back the control to your emotions.
You know what? I think it is a "test' of sorts. I think she is withholding those things from you to try to get you to collapse into the "needy" Frank of yesteryear. Don't let her push your buttons! Keep doing what you are doing, with the KNOWLEDGE that she is bound to pull away a bit and when she comes back out, it will be for good. You are doing great, don't let this get you down at all. i think it is all a part of the procedure.
Email & MSN Messenger: Becca_1975@msn.com
Yesterday Is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
Today is a Gift.
That Is Why It Is Called "The Present"
Quote: You know what? I think it is a "test' of sorts. I think she is withholding those things from you to try to get you to collapse into the "needy" Frank of yesteryear. Don't let her push your buttons! Keep doing what you are doing, with the KNOWLEDGE that she is bound to pull away a bit and when she comes back out, it will be for good. You are doing great, don't let this get you down at all. i think it is all a part of the procedure.
Yes, that is a possibility. I also think it's the opposite possibility too. SHE was starting to feel things for ME, and mistook it for 'needyness' on her part. That matches her talks with me about how I 'fill her cup' for her. Basically last week she was using me to make herself feel better. She felt like a lot of her life was out of control, but by using her 'womanly charms' she could control ME, and validate that she was desirable. That way she could feel secure. But it got too comfortable and that had to scare her. So now she has to shut down.
Tonite she had some massages to do so I ended up coming home early to be there for D10. Then D10 went over to a friends, and D15 is gone for the nite too. So the house is empty from 6:30 till about 8:30.
W called me a few minutes ago (6:40) to let me know she was done with her massages and to ask if D10 had gone over to her friends. I said 'yes, she's gone till 8:30 or so. W says "Oh, so the house is empty?". I say 'yes, except for me'. So she says "Well, I think I'm going to go to the bookstore to hang out". I reply "Ok, have fun. I'll be at home".
I'm thinking "How Grand this is. The house is empty and I can't spend quality time with my wife. Last week she would have come home to fool around"
Oh well. I go to my office and decide to catch up on some threads here. About 20 minutes later W comes home. ??????? I don't bother to get up and go to greet her, but stay in my office. She knows that I saw she is home because I have a video camera so I can see when someone's at the front door.
About 2 minutes later she comes in my office and says she went to the grocery store and got some fancy bread and a salad and if I want I can share it with her, and she's going to watch a DVD I had rented (Don Juan De Marco). She said it was an 'impulse' and that our Counselor had told her the other day to follow her impulses. I also noticed she didn't make eye contact with me often while speaking.
Ok, I guess the bookstore didn't seem so much fun then.
I make a fire in the fireplace and we eat and watch the movie, which is pretty funny and interesting. We don't sit on the couch together, she sits in a separate chair. Anyway, we have some laughs, she looks at me a few times, nothing exciting happens. In one scene the man 'falls in love, it's love at first sight' and W says "Ha, there's no such thing as love at first sight" and I say "There is in Hollywood". For those who don't remember, wife met OM and it was 'instant soulmate, I'm in love!'. How hypocritical.
Movie's over, time to also pick up D10 from her friends and put her to bed. I pick her up, W puts her to bed, and then comes into my room and says 'good nite frank'. Says she's going to bed and read a little. I say good nite, she leaves. End of story.
I think I came across as neutral, maybe ever so slightly perturbed or uncomfortable. She came upstairs a few minutes later to ask me something about her car. We talked for a couple minutes and then she said 'well, good nite' and just went into her room. I don't think she could have been more detached, disconnected, emotionless than she was just then.
I guess I can see by her actions tonite that she is 'shut down', everything she does is superficial. She's doing a good job of shutting me out.
I don't deserve to be treated like this. No explanation, no 'gee I feel like I was leading you on' or 'I don't think we should be doing what we did last week'. Just nothing. That is such B.S.
Well she has successfully helped me to detach, I really don't want to be around her any more right now. She's dull and unpredictable. I'm starting to feel the way I felt about 3 weeks ago, didn't want her any more, didn't want to care any more. This time though I'm not 'empty', I have a glass that is more than half full. I don't know if I can say the same for her.
Tomorrows another day. I"m not going to give her any attention. I will be up and smiling when I see her.
