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More thoughts. Seems like this is a true journey of realizations--each time I get stuck, feeling doubtful and negative, a new door of thought opens up. I'm not writing this to be corny or to will or convince myself of an outcome. I was reading on another thread (COG in Separated) and read about his feelings for his W, and they really hit home and opened up memories for me.

I remembered things that H said and felt for me in his love when we got back together again about 7 years ago. I see now that in ways, this whole process has tested me and molded my feelings and love for H to a level he was at long ago. Not that he was without faults, but the level of our love was different.

Back then, H said that he has made changes in himself, and wanted me, but wanted to make sure he gave me the love I deserved. He wanted to spend his life making me happy. This is all sweet, but when I think about it, even now, he cares for my feelings. In all of his anger, it pained him to see me sad, it's the reason he didn't leave. So many times he has said and acted that my happiness meant more to him than his own. He has forgiven me for so many things in the past, overlooked and expressed an unconditional love I was unprepared to give at the time. There was a time that he thought, falsely, that I had betrayed him and married me anyway....I could not have done the same. In our M, he put his feelings, anger and happiness away for our peace, so i could feel good and right at the end of the day. He prayed for us, cherished us. He was, and still is, so very patient with me.

I know it seems that I wax on about the wonderful qualities of H, and forget the other. I don't forget. But in ways, I see with the "letting go" phase the way that my love is changing. Even in the last 4 months of "trying" I was not loving the way he needed--no strings attached, with no conditions or expectations. I still had my strategy, my timetable, my tally and needs. These days, I am not controlling, demanding, I feel I have no right to that. I want to see him happy and strong each day--and accept that it isn't me that gives him that-it may be others. I want to be supportive. I am willing to forgive and forget so much, because in the end of the day, I am crazy about him, as he was about me. Is this the stage, painful as it is, that I had to go through to love H the way he deserved/needed, the way he gave to me? He went through a similar phase, and here I am.

It's the deepest thing H has given anyone, that level of love, so I can understand how hard it is to open that again, without feeling that you need to make sure you get it back. I know H...if he feels that a person truly cares about him, feels that he is special and gives to him with open heart, he will do anything for them. He felt that way about me once, I hope I can get there again.

For now, it's starting with the friendship, and meeting him with the love. Not in an overbearing, pursuant way...just normal and giving him space (which is unconditional in itself). I was not able to give space before because I was too caught in MY insecurities. Whatever time we have left together...even if short, it will ease my heart to know that I realized the gift I had and gave it back at least a little.

Again, I'm not beating myself up or forgetting any of his transgressions or my hurt. I remember it...but I remember another person in my pain as well...it's not all about ME

OK...venting. A little of the old frustrations seeping through...ugh.

I was fine tonight until H asked if I had seen friend's newborn baby. I said no, I will go later when they are ready. He said that I should go now, everyone else has gone (he came home for dinner and returning to work). I said that I would prefer if we went together...perhaps tomorrow when he came home for dinner? He said that won't be happening soon...he had to go to town for errands, etc (which he has 2 months to do). I immediately dropped it and switched the converstation and acted normal. But, for the first time in a while, I feel so frustrated. This is so symbolic of EVERYTHING I was so mad at him for. His work, life comes before being a couple with me...he knows it means a lot to me that he makes time to go somewhere together, and he DOES NOT do that...never has.

Normally, I would have picked a fight or acted moody. Today, I dropped it. I went back to usual. I'm still pissed, and am being patient. This is something that needs to change for SURE. I know that his life is important, but you have to make time for others, or they will NOT be there...that is how he was...dumped on our M with all his needs and I always came last. I took it out in the wrong way, but I hated every minute of it. Now, I am intolerant of his rejection in these matters. He feels that it's my job to represent us socially, and does not see that I see it as a time to be a couple, like EVERYONE ELSE. I don't fly the flag alone.

Of course, now it's being done because it's something that I want, so he will deny. He is only thinking of him. That's fine. I'll have to wait and see if that's how it will always be...if so, then I have to figure things out for myself.

Is this another test, or a sign that things will never change? Who knows. Only time will tell.

Being negative, but good to vent here.

Looking back, another test today--maybe. When H went back to work, he mentioned he was so tired, with all the work. He said, a little defensive but joking, that he had to get lots of sleep tonight as tomorrow was a big day and the last time he had a big day, we had a big fight the night before--the night of our explosion 2 weeks ago (he was smiling/poking fun, but still making his point) and he didn't want that again. Instead of jumping all over it...I just joked back (really, it was the day I found about coworker, I could care less what kind of a day you had next) and said that I had no intentions of picking a fight with him...then joked and said, just for saying that, I will sit and think of a great topic to pick a fight with...I laughed hard (I crack myself up sometimes!). He laughed too, a little sheepishly. I gave him a hug b/c it was nice to poke fun, and also b/c I wanted him to know he was safe.

Nice that he said what he did...normally he wouldn't express his disturbance. He did in a joking way, I think to express himself (he's getting bolder) and to test if I would defend myself or get mad again and ask/mention coworker--I didn't--I don't care and want him to know he can do whatever he wants. BUT, to MY defense, I did NOT apologize about the long fight and the fact that he had 2 hours of sleep, just said it wouldn't happen tonight...I figure if you hide something like that, you better be able to talk about it for as long as I want, I'm not really thinking of your work schedule needs at that point (at the time he didn't expect me too and was willing to talk all night).

You've put down a lot of thoughts today......whew! My brain can't even think that fast say nothing about my fingers keeping up with the typing.

You mentioned insecurities. I'm going to pick that out as one thing to think about. That is huge for me. When I was secure with H and my marriage, I knew that he was always coming home to me each night, and we went to bed together. I was okay with his interactions with other women, he showed me how much he loved me in lots of ways. And then, of course, it starts changing, and the worse it got the worse I got, the more insecure I was. Insecurity is a horrible feeling, it brings your whole life down. Work on that, a little piece at a time, to boost your esteem and build your security, it will sure help for your lifetime.

This 'new' you is just a couple weeks young. It will take a long time to settle in and be real and long lasting enough for both of you to be comfortable. Let it settle, let it take place.

Wow! Your mind must have been going a mile a minute yesterday.

I know I can say this to you because you know I would never be intentionally mean or rude to you. Hun, you are still spending way too much time thinking about your situation. Sometimes, you just have to let go completely and live each day as it comes without thought of the M, or H or anything else. For your own sanity, could you find a way to tackle this task taking small baby steps? Something to help you with the whole thought stopping process?

I just don't like to see you spending so much time worrying, thinking, dwelling...etc. You know as well as I do I did the same thing for a while and honestly all it did was deepen my depression. I finally made a commitment to let go of my brooding thoughts and just be. I am much happier now, I sleep a little better and I get way more accomplished throughout the day.

Think about it.

(((HUG)))

~SE

Ladies, thanks so much for your thoughtful responses. You're right...too much of yesterday was in M thought...yet, it was quite a productive day at work.

I think I woke up in a funk for 2 days and panicked....I loved how I felt the last 2 weeks and I was so scared of slipping back to the frightened, skiddish me of last month. I spent too much time pulling myself out of that.

BUT--I'm out!!! I worked out this morning, was nice. Gonna have a great day today at work...I realized last night that there are a few impending things (like details of my trip planning, etc) that I've been subconsciously putting off b/c of M progress....I am tackling those this week and taking my life in control for ME. I'm getting excited about the trip...to see family and a place that I miss.

I'm in good spirits today. Feeling confident--I like me, the changes I've made and looking back at 2005, it was a good year, despite M troubles. That's to work on in 2006, at least working on ME.

Update: Feeling pretty detached from his emotions. He's going through something...this morning, I chattered about my trip, and a trip that he's taking soon after (that we had planned on going together but now seems he may go alone, and I'm fine)...he rarely talks about either, avoids it. He was quiet this morning and seemed down. I asked if he was OK, and said I wanted him to have a strong morning, and let it go and joked about other things (big 180 for me and natural). He looked awkward and stared at my eyes with a sad look. Don't know what that means and not going to analyze. His feelings to sort out...if he needs help, he can ask.

For now, I'm focusing on getting things squared with my life in the next few weeks, planning a fun trip with family and being strong. If I must say, I feel quite proud of myself. This is a stressful situation, and I feel good, and able to pull myself out of serious funks--something I didn't think I could do. As far as H/M...I plan on doing what I wrote yesterday...trying to be good & unconditional to him for as long as we're together--with lots of space for BOTH of us.

Back on the train again...wonder where it's going??!!

WCW...I hear you with insecurities...I get spiraled in that too. I try to take 10 min out to "meditate" by focusing on what a fab gal I am (seriously!)...and the simple rule..you're trying to be a good person, goodness will follow...trust in that.

Nice day. Felt great throughout. Felt confident, peaceful and good about letting this go to another set of hands.

Got lots done at work, nice meetings that took my mind off of things and made me feel that I do SOMETHING right. I bet that's why H spends so much time at work as well.

I finally made arrangements for my trip in 2.5 weeks...and I'm getting really excited about it. I plan on making some delayed calls to family...it's been hard talking to them when I feel that I have to keep up appearances and make excuses why H can't talk. Oh well. I just don't feel it's the right time to invite others in the situation. Felt good to move on with life.

Talked to H...he vented about work stuff. Then he had to go (going into town for errand--no invite to me, but I didn't want to go anyway...want him to have his space). He is still in the push-pull mode--mostly push. He seems short, awkward, sad, uncomfortable, etc. I feel like we're back at square 1 again. It's certainly a ride, and I can understand his mixed bag of emotions. This time, I'm not attached to his emotions, words, etc. I just make sure I'm being good, the best I can be, and that's all.

In a way, I see H's expressions and moods and little tests as massive confusion. He SO wanted to think I was just plain horrible, that he could not live with me anymore (and to his credit, he tried). He wrote me off as never changing, as things never getting better b/w us...if any little thing went wrong on a given day these past months, he would throw up his hands and say, "see this isn't working." Just waiting for me screw up or have doubt. Now, that I have let go, and am nice despite his testing, etc, I think he's confused. Is this real? Can I trust this? Do I have feelings left? Can I see her as a new person? What's going on?

So, those are NOT my questions to answer...just be me and either that's good enough or not.

Good start to a strong day. Nice workout and feeling good about getting things done at work.

I've been reading and posting to Frank_D's thread (hey Frank, if you read mine!) and it's been so insightful to how my H feels about what he went through with depression and how I reacted. It's also been insightful in it made me feel as a W. It's something that I talked about with H, but someday we'll talk more, and hopefully he can vent as honestly has Frank does (go Frank!). Thanks, Frank. I hope I don't insult him, but b/c we can't talk to our spouses about this now, maybe talking to each other is close enough and we can sort our feelings out that way--respectfully--see the other POV..it's certainly been good for me.

H actually came home "early" last night...I expected him to stay in town forever to avoid me and get space. He went to bed early after we had some nice converstaion. Easy and relaxed...he asked for a back rub, etc. Funny, in his sleep, he said "thanks for listening to me" and I said "what" and he woke himself up and said "oh, nothing." Ahhh, I'll take a comatose compliment!

This morning we had a fun time, joked, showered, worked out. I brought up a nice memory from when we first met and he said "hey, was that the jerk you married....he seems like a nice guy after all!!!?" in a joking way, and I too joked and said "he is a great guy."

Thanked him for all the hard work he does for US to keep us from the financial misery that was our lives the last years. That means so much to him and to me--he works hard to make our life comfortable.

All in all, I feel detached and good. I think that makes H feel at ease. Hopefully he takes some time to sort his feelings out and doesn't just go with the flow. I'm glad that that trip is coming up, to give him space for this.

Advice anyone?

Tonight, a coworker of H invited us all out to dinner. H's other coworker called me before H did to invite me, but, as I had not heard from H yet, I made an excuse to get out. Sure enough, H calls, and says he's going to the dinner, and indicates that he's going alone. I let him know that I told his other coworker excuse, just so he would not be staring at them when asked why I could not come.

H: "so, you're not coming?"
M: "you know, you didn't really invite me, and you really sounded like you were going alone, so I wanted to give you space, it's your dept, and I'm perfectly happy staying home, no big deal"
H: "I was going to invite you."
M: "but you didn't, and you really sounded like you were planning on going alone. I didn't mean to bring up coworker to get mad at you, just to let you know the excuse I told her so you don't look stupid...really, this is NOT a big deal, so if you want me to go, please be honest with your feelings, mine won't get hurt and I don't want you to take me to make me feel better..."
H: "it's up to you, I have no preference"
H: "Yeah, I kinda did want to go alone."
M: "Thanks for being honest. Really, I want you to know that I have no expectations, and am not mad if you need space and welcome you to have it. That's why I offer you the car each night, I want you to have space, get out. I am not mad at all, or angry, I just want you to voice your feelings."

H sounded REALLY uncomfortable....I assured him I was NOT going to turn it into R talk. He came home and sounded uncomfortable and I sounded chipped.

Admittedly, on the phone, initially, I was a little taken aback and just frustrated that he was beating around the bush, so my tone was stiff and a little pushy. It's just that I felt he was pegging me. I should not have used that tone. I endded in a good way.

Ugh. I HATE having to worry about each little thing I say or with what tone. I feel that he watches every move like a hawk, the moment something slips to say "ha, this isn't working after all...it's just a charade." The funny thing was, I DID NOT CARE that he didn't want me to go. Before I would have been REALLY hurt. Not now. Just frustrated that he backed out of what he really wanted...and I had to push him.

It was frustrating b/c it made me feel, is he doing that with the M? Really wanting out, but staying to "appease" me? Not telling me what he really wants, until I push him and he finally says it?

Am I projecting?

Please give your thoughts....I'm not in a really paranoid state, but I feel that the last few days were well...and he's inspecting everything, and each little slip is a sign to him to leave.

Quote:

---

you know, you didn't really invite me,

---

Always.....Here's your 2x4. I would be very surprised if H heard much of what said after that. No matter what the tone of your voice was.....I'm sure guilt began creeping over him. And I think that's why he stalled on answering honestly. It's kind of the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. And I'm guessing that's why he was uncomfortable.

The good thing is you are detaching. That is going to go a long way in helping you.

Hope that didn't hurt too bad...........

~SE