Thanks C1T. Whew. One down, many to go...lol. I can't tell you how hard it was to post that. I almost didn't but I did it to be honest with you all and to help others who may be reading my sitch to feel like they are not alone in making mistakes. Somehow I have gotten a reputation around here and to honor that, I feel obligated to post the good with the bad.
dont beat yourself up about - we all have days and times when we slip into 'old' ways and cant help ourselves from saying something...
Yea, I suppose. I just have such high hopes for myself. I think I am doing so good and then I make these stupid decisions that sets me back weeks. Also, I don't buy that we can't help ourselves. I thought I did all I could last night to "help myself" and when the time came I threw all that out the window and just went with what I felt. I made that decision. She didn't make me. I just want to know why a guy that knows better would do such a stupid, self-sabotaging thing.
The best thing now is to completely forget about it. Dont mention it again to your W. Just act as though nothing happended and go back to doing what you did before...
I want to do this. The necklace may as well be me catching them in bed. It's that powerful in my mind now. I need to take away it's power.
I dont think there is any harm now and again to say what you think anyway - as long as its not every week. now and again sometimes can have a good effect and make our partners sit back and think...
Well, unfortunately, it is nearly every week for me. Most of the time it's not nearly this bad. Usually just a mood or a one liner. Hell, maybe those are worse because I am not being as direct. I DO think it made her think a bit. At NO time did she get so much angry as contemplative. We'll see. Maybe she's planning her move when we get back...lol...gasp...choke...
Think you also need to accept in your own mind that you W might have been meeting a friend, who knows!! But by getting jealous and questioning her is not going to work, unfortunately this could well push your W the other way... Try and ignore it.......
Of course, this is the core of what is making me feel so terrible this morning. It comes back to the necklace. Why be wearing it on the outside of a turtleneck sweater to meet a friend? Ok fine. Speculation over. I need to forget it. Yes. Will it push her the other way if I can't? Sure, I think so. Gotta stop.
Better still - you go out shopping one day and do the same if she tries to ring you... create a bit of mystery about yourself... make your W start worrying about where you are and what you are doing for a change...
I do this all the time. I go shopping, to basketball games, with the kids, etc. I do things on my own. As many of you can attest to though, when I don't answer MY cell phone, all he!! breaks loose with her. Somehow I need to be at her beckon call yet she feels no such duty. Trust me, I don't answer on purpose but I can't see the good in it most of the time.
I should have said, how dare I let this get to me...lol.
LOL, yeah. Exactly what you should have said!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
I do really sympathise with how you feel.. I am the same - each week I resign myself to being really strong and not pushing/moaning/critizing or saying anything negative to my H, but I end up doing something... It is so hard..... I just cant help but open my mouth sometimes.....need some tape to shut me up...
I just try to drill it into my head that before I am tempted to say anything i ask myself ' is what i am going to say help or make things worse?
I think if we could really discipline ourselves then the whole situ with our partners would be resolved alot quicker.. But we only human, and at end of the day we are doing the best we can at the moment...
Look man, do NOT beat yourself up about that. In all honesty, I think you handled yourself extremely well....you are allowed to have these conversations now and again. You are human, you have feelings. You have not failed in the least and to me, you're still a DBing hero. Quite honestly, if I could attain you're level of rolling with the punches, maybe I wouldn't be as conflicted 90% of the time.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: I can't tell you how hard it was to post that. I almost didn't but I did it to be honest with you all and to help others who may be reading my sitch to feel like they are not alone in making mistakes. Somehow I have gotten a reputation around here and to honor that, I feel obligated to post the good with the bad.
Dude, we all make mistakes. I'm glad to hear you're human becuase for a bit, I was thinking you were just a plant by the website moderators to make us feel good, LOL. Besides, you're right, its good to know that we all make mistakes, goodness knows I do it enough.
Quote: I just have such high hopes for myself. I think I am doing so good and then I make these stupid decisions that sets me back weeks. Also, I don't buy that we can't help ourselves. I thought I did all I could last night to "help myself" and when the time came I threw all that out the window and just went with what I felt. I made that decision. She didn't make me. I just want to know why a guy that knows better would do such a stupid, self-sabotaging thing.
I think you are making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Was it wrong? Sure. Did you backslide? Heck yes. Did you sabotage everything you worked for? No. I wonder if you even set things back as you thought you did. We can't be perfect and no one expects us to be. I know how hard it is when we do these things because I think in some sense we believe that any mistake on our part is going to send the WAS running to the OP. Okay, maybe enough pushing and prodding, etc. will eventually do that, but I think in my case, and in yours (since our W's seem to be sepearated at birth) they actually do have a good head on their shoulders and see the value in the M. As your W acknowledged, and so has mine, we are good people who have given a lot to trying to save our M's.
Stating your feelings in a direct and honest way is not wrong my friend. You did that. You backed away from it when it started to escalate. What's wrong here? You are not expected to push everything under the rug and deny feelings. At least I don't believe so.
Quote: The necklace may as well be me catching them in bed. It's that powerful in my mind now. I need to take away it's power.
Boy oh boy, Have i been here. Yes, it is a powerful thing, in your mind. The truth is, what DO you know about this necklace? Can you be certain that she never had it before? Let me let you in a little secret here, and I am so guilty of this, but face it...prior to this whole ordeal I never paid much attention to what jewerly my W had, I mean I knew certain pieces that I had bought for her and such, but before this, I never knew what she had. Our perspectives have changed here and that is a problem because we question everything that seems out of place when we don't know for a fact that it is out of place. Sure, she might have gotten it from the OM, and if so, what can be done about it? Truthfully, nothing. On the other hand, maybe it was hiding in her jewerly box for a couple of years. Hard to say. Don't give this necklace more power than it really has my friend.
Quote: Well, unfortunately, it is nearly every week for me. Most of the time it's not nearly this bad. Usually just a mood or a one liner. Hell, maybe those are worse because I am not being as direct. I DO think it made her think a bit. At NO time did she get so much angry as contemplative.
Again, I still say you are doing fine. A miss here and there isn't going to ruin everything. It happens...now the one liners and zingers could be made more direct so as not to come off as passive/aggressive and/or whiny, but that is part of the process. You are learning and you are adapting. She is recognizing that.
Quote: As many of you can attest to though, when I don't answer MY cell phone, all he!! breaks loose with her. Somehow I need to be at her beckon call yet she feels no such duty. Trust me, I don't answer on purpose but I can't see the good in it most of the time.
Amen! This is my W to a "T". Everything I do is to be transparent....everything she does is to not to be questioned. But hey, what are you going to do? Think of it this way, they are being secretive and in their minds, they view things with suspicion because of their own actions I suppose. Or maybe, its them reeling you back into the comfort zone. Who knows really. Roll with it and do the best you can.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Thanks to both of you. I won't reply to each of the comments as I usually do. Suffice to say amen to all of it, and I really appreciate the support.
It's so hard to just let go when she's right there, for the most part, trying to live life as usual. Whatever I do seems like an over reaction if that makes any sense. She lives life as usual and doesn't understand when I do/say/feel things that I never used to do/say/feel. Does that make sense? It's like no matter what I do to change, it's a reaction in her mind (as if I really don't have a will or mind of my own) and deserving of being called out as such. Not everything is an issue mind you but the more obvious ones are. If I don't answer my phone, it's an issue. If I go out more than usual, it's an issue. Talk about controlling...
Well, she called this morning and it's business as usual once again. She was nice and just wanted to ask my opinion on a financial matter. First I validated her feeling anxious about it (it involves money and her parents...never a good mix) and then gave her a thoughtful answer. That was it. She said she'd call later.
I will close by saying that unfortunately I am still at the point where I just don't know if I WANT this to continue. She has a lot to prove to ME and that process is nowhere near beginning so far as I can tell. The thing that keeps me going is the realization that my W did something similar to this for YEARS if you believe her account of our marriage. I suppose I can give it more than 2 months...
what do you mean you didn't live up to my billing - first there was no billing, and second, you did just that
The way I see it you did just as I described - you got emotional, you recognized it, you felt your feelings, and then you decided to stop them and stopped them. What, do you seriously think that if you were an excellent DBer you what, wouldn't feel any emotions or would be cool and happy? Is that even possible? As I said, perfection as I see it is owning up to and controlling one's emotions; and unless you're discussing the same things now with your W, I can say that you found a proper outlet for them hence you don't let them eat you up on the inside, and yet you don't let them get you into a heated discussion. Try to imagine what would have happened in the same situation 2 months ago - you would probably have gone ballistic, wouldn't you. Therefore you're learning. A good DBer is the one who learns AND who is getting results.
No matter how put together, calm and cool I behave when interacting with my H, he's still with the OW and still wants to be with her. Your W is clearly expressing regret and intention to stay with you. Hence I rest my case
To get through the darkest period of the night, act as if it is already morning.
The Talmud
Quote: It's so hard to just let go when she's right there, for the most part, trying to live life as usual. Whatever I do seems like an over reaction if that makes any sense. She lives life as usual and doesn't understand when I do/say/feel things that I never used to do/say/feel. Does that make sense? It's like no matter what I do to change, it's a reaction in her mind (as if I really don't have a will or mind of my own) and deserving of being called out as such. Not everything is an issue mind you but the more obvious ones are. If I don't answer my phone, it's an issue. If I go out more than usual, it's an issue. Talk about controlling...
Okay, I had to respond here because this describes my sitch as well. Funny, anything I say is an over reaction and she doesn't understand when I say and do things and see's them as only a reaction. Sometimes even my most innocous statements are seen as accusations. Basically, it comes down to this: everything in my house is good as long as I can pretend as if everything is good, the moment I dwell on the issue or even think about it, its my fault.
One of the other things you mentioned in your earlier posts GH is that she seems to belive that maintaining a friendship with the OM is a possibility...you already know that's what I am struggling with. Funny how things work. I sit here sometimes and think to myself, okay, if I would have even thought of maintaining a friendship with the OW when I went through this, that would have been completely unacceptable.
sorry this is more a rant than advice, and a negative one at that, but I guess I'd rather post it here then vent at home.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
what do you mean you didn't live up to my billing - first there was no billing, and second, you did just that
Lol.
The way I see it you did just as I described - you got emotional, you recognized it, you felt your feelings, and then you decided to stop them and stopped them.
Ok. I can see that. I didn't think of it that way. If you look at it that way it isn't AS bad as I thought.
What, do you seriously think that if you were an excellent DBer you what, wouldn't feel any emotions or would be cool and happy? Is that even possible? As I said, perfection as I see it is owning up to and controlling one's emotions;
Again, different take on the DB thing and from that perspective, I guess I am still doing ok. I DID eventually control my emotions...12 hours later...lol.
and unless you're discussing the same things now with your W, I can say that you found a proper outlet for them hence you don't let them eat you up on the inside, and yet you don't let them get you into a heated discussion.
I AM NOT having this conversation with my W. I don't want to later either. They are still stirring around inside, but I am feeling more in control as the day goes on. You all are helping with that too.
Try to imagine what would have happened in the same situation 2 months ago - you would probably have gone ballistic, wouldn't you. Therefore you're learning. A good DBer is the one who learns AND who is getting results.
Two months ago I would have been gone for days over this, not hours. I may not have gone ballistic because it's not my nature but emotions would have overflowed for sure. I AM learning. I am still on the fence about the results. Sometimes I think they are good, sometimes I think the other bomb is just a day away. Comes with the territory I guess.
No matter how put together, calm and cool I behave when interacting with my H, he's still with the OW and still wants to be with her. Your W is clearly expressing regret and intention to stay with you. Hence I rest my case
Ok. I guess I see that, but until my W actually SAYS she's doing that it's hard for me to tell. Since I am trying NOT to interpret her every action, I would be really helped by some verbal commitment. She's not ready for that yet I suppose, and I have to face the reality that she probably won't be before this trip. I harbored some hope that she would do something like that, but it was hope, not expectation.
sorry this is more a rant than advice, and a negative one at that, but I guess I'd rather post it here then vent at home.
No problem man. You know my thread is your thread. As for what you said, I know what you mean. It's as if OUR "as if" is what makes the world go round. As soon as we crack a bit, we are back to being the total a-holes that started all this in the first place...lol.
Try this one on for size too. It seems like after these exchanges, my W really tries to, with her actions only of course, reassure me that things are ok. Does your W do that too. She doesn't get angry, or go towards the OM so far as I can tell, rather, she seems to realize a bit more of what of what she's doing and something, guilt or whatever, causes her to rebound a bit. Who knows.
