I am looking mainly for something to go with Mars/Venus that maybe goes more into men's issues or if not that, then something addressing sexuality/being a good lover from a woman's perspective (for men obviously).
Hmmmm...before we go jumping the gun here...finish out the Mars/Venus tapes. You need a W to ML to first...you want her to be receptive to your advances or even better you would like her to make the advance, right? Remember NYS post sometime ago...foreplay with a woman starts on Monday...it's all the little things that lead up to ML. Read about the points being given/taken a way.
Good point SS. I am jumping the gun on that. I guess I just wanted to be ready in case something "comes up" soon. I will heed your, and NYS's advice.
FD. I have read, in order:
Divorce Busting Of course, the mother of them all! Getting the Love You Want Recommended by my C. Good stuff, but heavy on the Freudian, childhood issues=adult issues stuff. It is a tough read, but good for explaining a lot about why we end up who we are based on who we grow up being. It was a good foundation building for future reading. The 5 Love Languages I really enjoyed this. Easy read, and full of great info centering around how different people express and want to receive love. Probably similar to Mars/Venus (I will guess since I have barely begun that one) in terms of "wow, I never thought of that before" type stuff. I think this is a must read, and will give you a ton of great insight on you AND your spouse. The 4 Agreements This is the first book I read that really deals with individual growth. It talks about 4 things that you can do to life a better, more honor filled life. I think, like the 5 Love Languages, it is essential reading for us here. It was a little "out there" for me in some places but all-in-all, it was really insightful. Transforming Yourself I saw this one recommended to someone on some thread somewhere. This one still eludes me. I think there was some good stuff, but mainly I found it to just be an endless philosophy lecture. I suppose, where I was at when I read it, I wanted more instruction and less theory. That said, the parts addressing ownership versus victimhood are worth the price of admission. The Little Book of Letting Go I am still reading this. Funny, what has stopped me from just getting through it is all the exercises it has you do. It's the opposite of Transforming Yourself. The principals seem really sound and for those of you like me who obsess and worry about everything, this looks to be very helpful. I just need to finish it! Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus What can I say. It's the bible isn't it...lol. Seriously, from the first couple minutes of listening, I understand why this book has meant so much to so many.
I would only add to this: I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lunbergs. A very useful book with regard to validation. Very straight forward and useful in any interpersonal communication.
Wait, I didn't see Divorce Remedy on your list GH....is that part of your personal reading list? I found it more useful for our particular sitches because it does have a section (albeit somewhat small) devoted to infidelity and other common issues (depressed spouse, passion meltdown, etc.)
Last edited by PArob; 02/24/0608:11 PM.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
GH, it's not really nesessary to do all the exercises, you can go with the most exciting: namely, your first thoughts. Try to right down your first thought in the first 5 minutes upon awakening, and see where it leads you. It could very well be that once you start wrighting it would be hard to stop.
Mars/Venus is about courting? Or dating? Or is there anything for someone who lost hope in relationships?
To get through the darkest period of the night, act as if it is already morning.
The Talmud
Mars/Venus is about courting? Or dating? Or is there anything for someone who lost hope in relationships?
My take on Mars/Venus is that it opens up the doors for communication between the sexes. It helps to translate what we are thinking/saying. Men and women say one thing and we mean something else generally. Also describes how men/women add/take away points in a relationship by having emotional needs met.
Speaking of which, haven't read it but I keep hearing about His Needs/Her Needs. Supposed to be a great book.
My favorite is Make up Not Break Up. Explains indepth the distance/pursuer and how they are basically created according to their childhood relationships. The benefits of breaking up and then getting back together.
Quote: My favorite is Make up Not Break Up. Explains indepth the distance/pursuer and how they are basically created according to their childhood relationships. The benefits of breaking up and then getting back together.
Wow - I just picked this one up from the library today. Hadn't heard anyone else mentioning it before.
I haven't started it in-depth yet, only got to thumb thru a few pages. What I saw was very similar to a lot of the things said here and in DR and I liked what I was reading....so glad to hear someone else has read it.
Thanks for the book suggestions all. I will look into the ones I have not read.
Now, the usual stuff around here. I was going to go jogging after watching my basketball tonight and I only had a couple minutes before a show I watch comes on. So, my W was in the garage and I didn't want to go out there because that's usually OM talk time if she is out for very long. I was putting S5 in bed so I didn't know how long she'd been. I needed my shoes from the garage and out I go...to find W IN her car, with the doors closed, talking on the phone, carrying on, having a good time. She kinda motioned to me that she would be in, I held up my shoes and waived. I was still inside when she came in. I had my headphones on but so she kinda loudly said
W: I was on the phone with my sister M: In your car? (with a regrettable and noticeable tone) She said W: Wow, here you go. You need to chill. I was talking to my sister and I don't really care if you believe me. M: Why do you get this way? W: (mumbles something)
Immediately I put on my happy face and I just started asking her what was up with sis. The convo continued and it was ok. I went for my jog and when i came back, nothing has been said. Dunno if either of us will bring it up. I don't think I will. Who knows about her. BTW, as far as I know she has NEVER shut the car doors in the garage to talk on the phone. She WAS on with the OM...not really speculation, but I am not that bothered by it never-the-less. Live to love another day...
(1) What about, "Thanks, I feel very unsettled when I'm afraid you are talking to OM, so your openness really helps me alot. Thanks for the support and understanding."
(2) You KNOW do you????? Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE she talks in her car for privacy and MAYBE she needed to have a private conversation with her sister because she is going through alot right now or MAYBE she went to the car to call OM but resisted and called her sister instead and was feeling very good about that until YOU took her down a few notches.
Oops, I'm sorry, you said you KNEW she was talking to OM so I'm sure you have absolutely convincing evidence that those, or any other, possibilities are false.
And, I'm certainly glad you are being silent rather than addressing this simmering crock of sh*t directly at this point. Nothing breeds intimacy, love and trust like resentment. How long do you think it will be before she stops trying at all when you shoot down her smallest efforts? Why would she be willing to take any greater risks?
I suggest you go apologize to her immediately for your passive/aggressive and sarcastic sh*t. That you admit it was a zinger that you threw at her because of your own hurt.
You know, she already hurt or she wouldn't have had an A. If you are going to punish her for the A by zinging her everytime she tries to be more open with you, you may as well call it quits right now.
P.S. This doesn't mean invalidating your own feelings. It is perfectly reasonable for you to feel insecure and have doubts about her activities. It will take a lot of time and work to build that trust.
What about, "Thanks, I feel very unsettled when I'm afraid you are talking to OM, so your openness really helps me alot. Thanks for the support and understanding."
She is NOT open with me, this time, or any other when it comes to this stuff, and what support? She offers me NO support for anything, not that I expect it. I have tried the calm, direct approach, and she calmly, directly tells me the "truth". That's the $hitty thing about cheating on someone. It makes it hard to trust you again. Will that change? I hope so. Will I have to take the first steps in that? I don't know. I may have to, or maybe she will by ending the A.
(2) You KNOW do you????? Did it ever occur to you that MAYBE she talks in her car for privacy and MAYBE she needed to have a private conversation with her sister because she is going through alot right now or MAYBE she went to the car to call OM but resisted and called her sister instead and was feeling very good about that until YOU took her down a few notches.
Yea. Ok. Well, I guess I am human and I DO react to things sometimes. Could I be wrong. Sure. THAT'S why I QUICKLY smiled, changed the subject in a way that SUPPORTED HER STORY and went running as I had planned WITHOUT taking things any further.
Oops, I'm sorry, you said you KNEW she was talking to OM so I'm sure you have absolutely convincing evidence that those, or any other, possibilities are false.
You know, sarcasm is something I have tried to extricate from my life and I don't find it very helpful here. If you expect perfection from me, stop expecting. It won't happen. It was a bad reaction, one that I stopped before it got out of control. Trust me, she was just waiting for it. It never came.
And, I'm certainly glad you are being silent rather than addressing this simmering crock of sh*t directly at this point. Nothing breeds intimacy, love and trust like resentment. How long do you think it will be before she stops trying at all when you shoot down her smallest efforts? Why would she be willing to take any greater risks?
Now it's my turn for a WTF! Am I missing something? How was this an effort? Lying is an effort? Look, both my W AND SIL are available during the day to talk. Shutting herself in her car at the only time she knows I will be occupied tonight is a LITTLE strange if she wanted to talk to sis. She talks to her ALL the time right out in the open, but sure, it COULD have been the truth. Only her, her sister and her cell phone know for sure. I don't know why I would address anything. I shouldn't have said anything. You can all get ready to smack me for this, especially you OT, but if it were ME, or really anyone trying to make right an affair they had, then it would stand to reason that THEY would be the ones to go out of THEIR way to explain away things like this and UNDERSTAND a little paranoia now and then. I mean, really, we are dealing with an ongoing affair. It is somehow unreasonable that every once in awhile, like maybe once a week, I slip a bit. I guess so, and I will work on never slipping.
I suggest you go apologize to her immediately for your passive/aggressive and sarcastic sh*t. That you admit it was a zinger that you threw at her because of your own hurt.
Yes, I did throw that zinger because of my own hurt. I will not apologize. Sorry. I guess I will let you down on that one.
You know, she already hurt or she wouldn't have had an A. If you are going to punish her for the A by zinging her everytime she tries to be more open with you, you may as well call it quits right now.
So once again, I need to understand this. SHE is the one that's hurt? I am the one punishing her? I fully understand I did a lot of this and I am FAR from being the man I want to be, but I am NOT punishing her. IF I wanted to do that, I would not be here. And how exactly was what happened her being open with me? You assume as much as I do here. You assume YOU are right and she was telling the truth, otherwise why do I need to apologize? Frankly, I don't care which of us is right or wrong. Until my W says that the A is over and the OM is not in her life, I will have trouble believing odd behavior like this is innocent. That said, IF I am going to continue to live in the shadow of this A, I need to do a better job of owning that decision. I know that.
I am trying SO hard to just live day by day, and I am doing ok. This moment between my W and I is just another in the string that I am trying to stop. I KNOW I was wrong to react with anything but directness. For THAT I am sorry, but not for my feelings. I DO accept your judgment on that, but I do not accept your making her somehow a victim in this. We are BOTH doing hurtful things and until that stops, I think there is bound to be more little slip-ups here and there.
