Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Pennies in the Fountain of Serenity

Alison,
It's hard to think that H. is considering anyone else's feelings besides his own anymore. I appreciate your post so very much; don't get me wrong! But being afraid of hurting anyone else...is hard to believe.
I will check out that thread you suggested. Thank you.

Hi NYS,

I'll try to reply to everything in order.

First, today is the first day in a LONG time that I have called H. without a very good reason (or if I was returning a message from him). It was highly unusual that I called him like I did; he returned my call because he thought something was wrong...that's how unusual it was. I was not trying to go back into pursuit mode, but I had to do something different. I've left him alone for months now and things are not any better. I realize pursuing also did not get me far when I was doing it earlier on in my situation, but considering he was saying to me that things with o.w. and him were not going as well, I figured this might be my time to act, so to speak. So, I called him hoping he could have lunch with me, and perhaps we could talk about how to proceed.

Now, in regards to me saying that we have a lot to talk about, we DO! He knew what I meant; this was what HE was pushing for earlier in the week: were we getting a legal sep. or D? what to do about selling the house, etc. He assured me we would discuss this in person on Sat., and then he blew that off and we resorted to a big R. talk including him spilling the "truth" (and yes I'm smart enough to put that word in quotes) about what's been going on.

I wanted him to agree to come over and talk to me about what we are going to do. I realize we cannot continue to live this way. The problem is, he gets all hyped up about discussing it, even goes so far as to set a day to do it, and then avoids it. When I asked him today when could we talk about things, he said maybe next weekend. Avoiding.

You're right, NYS, his actions do speak louder than his words. He SAYS he doesn't want to come back, he wants to talk about what we're going to do (because he's not coming back), and then when I expect this conversation to happen, he bails. So, then, does he REALLY want out of this marriage or not?

A lot of men leave their wives and don't behave like H. is behaving. They know they want a D. and they get a lawyer and file, and things fall into place. H. is avoiding me now because if he's not coming back as he insists, he knows we have a lot to work out.

Perhaps he is scared to take the final step. So am I. I don't want this, but I also have to think of my own health and well being. Sure, I could go file, but I don't want to do that. I have told him we could sit down together; he's told me he doesn't want to get lawyers involved (he means he'd rather mediate than get nasty about it).

Does H. even have issues? Maybe I'm misreading the whole thing. Sometimes I think it's as simple as he loves o.w. and wants to be with her.

First, today is the first day in a LONG time that I have called H. without a very good reason (or if I was returning a message from him)

Oh, OK! I read "He said that he noticed I'd called a few times and wanted to be sure everything here was ok" and I got the impression that there wasn't any reason he should be expecting your calls.

I've left him alone for months now

No comment!

considering he was saying to me that things with o.w. and him were not going as well, I figured this might be my time to act, so to speak.

Yeah, I can understand that carpe diem syndrome. The thing is, what constitutes the "act" when that window is perceived? I tend to think that whatever constitutes that act, it need be in accordance with the overall sitch. I've read a lot of you writing 'if H would only realize this, then maybe he would do that' type of thinking, so I wonder if that constitutes your 'act'? That's what I don't think would be helpful.

In a way, it's like us being a good detective and dealing with the sitch in accordance with the FBI profile of the subject. Like in my sitch, my ex has shown some signs recently of grass-not-greener-fog-lifting-syndrome, opening up to me some, and I saw that as a window of sorts, but knowing that she hasn't gone the length, I don't see that opening up as anything more than her opening up, and so if there is an opportunity that could lead to a reconciliation there, I still don't see that as a healthy opportunity, but as a danger-danger-run-away warning, lest I get sucked up into another mess. For all I know, she's reaching out to me not out of love, but out of need, or simply following previous patterns of hers. She may be bouncing back and forth in her feelings and who knows what, really.

I think if a person truly wants to return, they will seek to return. It will become obvious, somehow.

I wanted him to agree to come over and talk to me about what we are going to do. I realize we cannot continue to live this way. The problem is, he gets all hyped up about discussing it, even goes so far as to set a day to do it, and then avoids it. When I asked him today when could we talk about things, he said maybe next weekend. Avoiding.

... his actions do speak louder than his words. He SAYS he doesn't want to come back, he wants to talk about what we're going to do (because he's not coming back), and then when I expect this conversation to happen, he bails. So, then, does he REALLY want out of this marriage or not?

I don't think that's the question that arises out of his actions. Apparently, you wish to proceed with your life, he's remaining neutral, noncommittal. He's not willing to take those steps. Could be the comfort zone theory. I think for you to proceed, it's up to you what to do, without regard to considering what he wants to do, since what he wants to do is keep it in limbo, and go ahead and do it.

A lot of men leave their wives and don't behave like H. is behaving.

And then again, a lot of men act like your H.

I have told him we could sit down together; he's told me he doesn't want to get lawyers involved (he means he'd rather mediate than get nasty about it).

Getting lawyers doesn't mean you have to get nasty. I got an attorney, we filed, ex got an attorney just to review the proposed settlement, asked for some innocent changes - neither of us were being pr!cks about this - and it got done. Not saying you should file, just pointing out that it can be done nicely with attorneys. You're the boss, not the attorney.

Does H. even have issues?

Oh yeah, he reeks of commitment-phobia, low self-esteem and MLC, to one degree or another.

Anyway, the real matter at hand is: what shall Hope do?

You don't want to get burned by this guy again. Watch from a distance, see how he goes along his journey. Don't wait on him, it could take years. If and when he figures it all out and is capable of showing that he's put things in their right place, you can decide then what you want to do.

NYS,
Hi again, friend. Glad you're around tonight.

Oh, OK! I read "He said that he noticed I'd called a few times and wanted to be sure everything here was ok" and I got the impression that there wasn't any reason he should be expecting your calls
I think I'm being confusing when I don't mean to! Sorry! There was no reason for me to be calling him today---which was the unusual part; that plus I called more than once. I have not done this in a very long time, so he thought something might be wrong with me or at the house, etc. That is why he called me back even though o.w. was around. Normally he would not do that.

I do agree with you: if a person wants to return, they will, and the LBS won't be left questioning it.

I think for you to proceed, it's up to you what to do, without regard to considering what he wants to do, since what he wants to do is keep it in limbo, and go ahead and do it.
Right again, but here is the thing: earlier this week, he seemed to want to move this out of limbo. He said we cannot continue to live this way (I agreed) and that we needed to talk in person about how we would proceed. Ok, fine. Not really what Hope wanted to hear, but alright. Hope's physical and mental health have taken a beating; time to sit with H. and discuss. But now he's not willing to sit down and do this.
So, where does that leave me? Back in limbo hell. I don't really want a D. but I was willing to talk this weekend with H. about how to proceed (I was really considering RB's suggestion about a legal sep. and still selling house, splitting up the finances, etc.). He's too busy sitting around at his house with o.w. and her child. So how important is it, then, to settle up? How do we move out of limbo when it's now H. who doesn't seem to want to do anything about it! Talk about a 180. I finally get up the courage to face the possibility that we can't work this out, and he decides to ignore what needs to be done.

Oh, yes, I know getting lawyers involved doesn't mean nasty. I'm just saying that in H.-speak, he means that instead of us going after each other bitterly, we could mediate (which we have talked about before). Sure, in the heat of an argument he's yelled at me and told me to just go get a lawyer, etc. but he doesn't mean it. He would rather mediate and so would I. I don't see that being a problem. The problem now is getting H. to talk to me about taking these actual steps and he seems to be putting it off now. Funny how when I call HIM to say, 'we have a lot to talk about' he now doesn't want to discuss it.

Thank you for pointing out H's issues for me. I guess it helps for someone else to show me that this isn't my fault. That he does actually have problems that are going to make his R. with o.w. a mess It would be nice to think that they will not have a happy future together, because quite frankly after what they have put me through I don't feel they deserve one. Sorry; bitter, yes. Can't help that. Despite what he's been going through with o.w. I still say he has said and done SO many things that I've read about a MLC.

You don't want to get burned by this guy again. Watch from a distance, see how he goes along his journey
No, I sure don't NYS. I don't know what his intentions are but he has to face me sooner or later. We can't legally separate or D. without first sitting down together and talking about what to do; there is a lot to talk about. I would be ok with separating and moving away from here after selling our house and seeing what real distance might do for H. Perhaps it would force him to rethink what he's doing; perhaps not, too. If he got it together over time, then we could have a fresh start if I'm still interested down the road. Maybe I wouldn't be, I don't know.

On a totally different note, I think I'm going to pick up this Sudoku puzzle craze. My friend told me about it, and then I was speaking to my aunt today and she's all into it. It looks challeging and fun, and I'm going out to pick up a beginner's book about it tomorrow.

Also wanted to mention something about my aunt, who has been in my position, sadly. She has told me time and again that she regrets being the one who filed for the divorce; she and my uncle lived apart for one year (adultery issues with him) and she finally couldn't take the limbo anymore so she filed. She told me she regrets this because she relieved him of the guilt of filing; he should have been the one to do it, because she wanted to work out her marriage and he didn't. She keeps reminding me NOT to file and make H. do it because I will regret it if I go ahead with it.

Hope, no advice to offer but wanted to give ((((hugs)))). They should bottle this to use as torture for POW's. It sucks big time.

I think for you to proceed, it's up to you what to do, without regard to considering what he wants to do, since what he wants to do is keep it in limbo, and go ahead and do it.

Right again, but here is the thing: earlier this week, he seemed to want to move this out of limbo. He said...

What I'm saying is, pay no attention to the man behind the WAS curtain. Don't regard what he may want, just as he hasn't regarded you. I'm not saying return tit for tat, but to walk your walk, without consideration for him. Should he wish to walk with you, he will adjust his pace. But he should not be the one to cause you to limp.

It would be nice to think that they will not have a happy future together, because quite frankly after what they have put me through I don't feel they deserve one. Sorry; bitter, yes. Can't help that.

I understand that. You want vindication and I don't blame you. You'd like H to see the consequences of his actions, that of bad actions leading to bad consequences. That feeds into our anger and sense of righteousness, if we're not over that.

Also wanted to mention something about my aunt, who has been in my position, sadly. She has told me time and again that she regrets being the one who filed for the divorce; she and my uncle lived apart for one year (adultery issues with him) and she finally couldn't take the limbo anymore so she filed. She told me she regrets this because she relieved him of the guilt of filing; he should have been the one to do it

Let me tell you, that's what she may think, yet I think, if it comes down to divorce, the innocent spouse filing is the stronger one. Why should we, as the innocent spouse that was cheated on, be the reason for the divorce? Bullsh!t! We're the ones that have the real reason to say legally "I don't want this person mated to me".

Filing because one can't take the limbo anymore is another story. I've been there. Filed because I felt embarrassed that my wife was living with another man; why remain married, asked I? Under that emotional pressure that I gave myself, I sought divorce. In the long run, it wasn't a bad thing: it cut me loose and untangled me legally foremost, and whatever effect it had on her and the OM, fine. Personally, I believed it dumped her in his lap and took away the erotic thrill of having taken her from her husband, and made it all real to him, and to her I belive it made her subject to the tides of life without an anchor anymore. Just my belief, don't know how it really affected them, but safe to say that it made them both free to now regard each other as their reality without me in the picture, for whatever impact that may have. And lo! There she is, missing me, right?

NYS,

Good morning as we continue this conversation! I loved your post.

pay no attention to the man behind the WAS curtain
I know you meant this in a way to explain something serious to me, but this just sounds like such a funny t-shirt or bumper sticker that us LBS's should have! lol! I do understand what you are trying to tell me though.

I belive it made her subject to the tides of life without an anchor anymore
I love how you put that.
Sometimes I think about the position my H. and o.w. are in. I imagine it is fueled with a LOT of drama and emotion; this, "What are we gonna do?" mentality. Their future together always hanging in the balance. There is a sense of excitement about living that way. Will they continue to see each other? Where will they go? Can they get an apt.? You can practically hear the cheesy soap opera music in the background. It kind of makes sense that the affair has gone on this long, when I think about it that way.

But as you said, you filed and took back the power, and it dumped her in o.m.'s lap. No more anchor to NYS. She was on her own and obviously she has had some moments where she's missed you.

For now, I'm not going to do anything. It is up to him to contact me about discussing any separation or divorce. I was prepared to do that this weekend, and he avoided it. He obviously has plans today since he told me he could not meet with me.

I need to get out for a while today. I am so tired of all the drama of this. This is not how I want my life to be. The problem is, I really NEED to know the truth about what has gone on between H. & o.w. I am not saying it would change anything. I just need to know so the thousands of possibilities stop crowding my mind, and I have the ability to know the truth and let it rest. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that is what I need.

Hope,

You sound a bit better than you did last time I checked in on you. I am really glad for that.

Quote:

---

The problem is, I really NEED to know the truth about what has gone on between H. & o.w. I am not saying it would change anything. I just need to know so the thousands of possibilities stop crowding my mind, and I have the ability to know the truth and let it rest. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that is what I need.

---

Be REALLY careful with this kind of thinking. It's the same thought process that leads to snooping early on in the sitch and I believe it to be destructive.
It seems like you need to know, and that you'll be able to deal with the "truth".
Two problems with that. First, he may never tell you the "truth". Second, you say you want to stop the thousands of possibilities from clogging your mind. Well, you can always stop that be realizing that all those things are living in your head and that none of them are reality so far as you know. You CAN dismiss those thoughts.
Once you have the "truth" it forms a searing vision in your head. I speak only for myself. The parts of the "truth" I know about my W and the OM still linger somewhere in the front of my mind most of the time. The possibilities of what COULD be going on are much less damaging to me right now.
I can't tell you not to feel the way you do. I am just trying to help you think about this need you think you have from a different point of view.
Like you said anyway, it won't change anything so why even know?
Please take care.

GH

I need to get out for a while today. I am so tired of all the drama of this. This is not how I want my life to be. The problem is, I really NEED to know the truth about what has gone on between H. & o.w. I am not saying it would change anything. I just need to know so the thousands of possibilities stop crowding my mind, and I have the ability to know the truth and let it rest. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that is what I need.

Honey I know you NEED to know the truth, but your Hs truth changes as much as I change underwear these days. You may never learn the real truth. There has been so very little consistency to anything he tells you. He flip flops from one moment to the next. One minute it's over with him and OW and the very next he has at the very least the daughter over.

The longer you stay on HIS rollercoaster the more drama you are going to be facing.

Hi Hope,

I've been following along with your sitch. Like the others, I would like to weigh in on this quote:

I need to get out for a while today. I am so tired of all the drama of this. This is not how I want my life to be. The problem is, I really NEED to know the truth about what has gone on between H. & o.w. I am not saying it would change anything. I just need to know so the thousands of possibilities stop crowding my mind, and I have the ability to know the truth and let it rest. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that is what I need.


Hope, I totally understand why you feel this way. I was driven by the same feeling for so long. I felt that if I could only have all the pieces of this puzzle, that somehow I could be made whole again. After almost three years, I discovered that is not how it would play out for me. Number one, my H's truth and mine are two different things. The inconsistencies in his explanations were huge. He doesn't remember what he has told to whom. You know the old, "What a tangled web we weave..." problem. And more importantly, he chooses to see things in the way that allows him to cope with his life and his choices.

My H left on Sept 2. About 2 weeks after that I was talking with my sister on the phone. She was trying to console me by pointing out all of the cheating that had gone on for so long. She was trying to help me "see the light." I was still very fragile and began to get irritated with her. I told her she didn't have to remind me, that I had lived it. We continued to talk for awhile and then hung up. At that point, I sat down at my kitchen table and I forced myself to review everything I had known about my H since the beginning. I started at age 14 and thought through the entire 34 years of the relationship. It was at that moment that I realized MY TRUTH about what had happened in my life. It was and will always be a defining moment in my life. I'm not sure I can even convey to you how important it was to me. Everything became very clear to me and very calming. The hurt and anguish lifted from me when I realized that I had been living a fantasy and the person I thought I knew didn't really exist. He was a figment of my imagination. I could no longer be hurt by my own fantasy.

I know this probably doesn't make a lot of sense to you. I'd just like to caution you that having your H explain all the details to you may not necessarily set you free. What sets you free is coming to grips with what YOU know to be the truth about your life.

I think of you often. I pray that you find strength in your journey. You already sound so much stronger!

Hugs,

Spitfire