Bomb in 2002, D'd agreed on in 2003, Final in 2004. I grew and learned a great deal from DBing. I am now remarried to someone I have been with for two years. Did not start dating anyone until D agreed upon. I think my becoming happy and independent, which is what will DBing will do for you, before dating was key to my current wonderful life. I am happier than I ever thought I could be in an R and am very grateful to this site. I've been around a bit because I'm procrastinating on a project, lol. And, I feel good when I try to help others. I know how much DBing helped me and continues to help me. The unresolved issues in one R will need to be resolved in the next R, like it or not. Seeing the old patterns play out on the DB boards helps keep me on my toes, lol.
Michelle's message is to let go, become healthy and independent, develop healthy detachment in which you can offer sincere compassion and understanding to another rather than making their stuff about you. It is also about patience and hopefulness.
I was the total doormat baby-step grubbing pathetic emotional wreck that we all start out as. Needy as hell for scraps of emotional sh*t. YUCK, NOT VERY ATTRACTIVE, LOL. One problem I see with the boards is that the baby step approach, which I don't think is bad if done properly, is used to keep people in that place in which every whim of the spouse creates chaos in our lives. Baby steps are markers to look for to evaluate one's own progress and whether or not one CHOOSES to continue to DB.
Unfortunately, most of our marriages are so far gone by the time we come to live on the boards (yes, I did it too), that setting baby steps for the R are inappropriate. BECAUSE THE R ISN'T THERE. Set baby steps for oneself-- GH does a good job of this, like reducing the sarcasm.
Anyway, set babysteps for oneself, detach, get a life. Only then can YOU figure out what YOU WANT for yourself without making it contingent on what your P has for lunch, or how your P looks at you, or if your P sounds happy or sad, or how your P breathes, etc... And, it is only when you can be a happy person who knows what they want will your R have a real chance of being a strong, vibrant, passionate R that will last a lifetime.
DBing worked wonders for me. It gave me that kind of R, though it did not save my old marriage (thankfully, truly). I think it can save many marriages that have the potential to be rich satisfying emotional and physical partnerships (my first M simply did not.) It seems to me that Grasshopper's may. Of course it may not. Either way, it is painful to see the real potential he is developing in terms of having an excellent life and being an excellent P in the future being swallowed by the mind-numbing obsessive behavior he is trapped in right now that acts like a bad drug. I believe DBing is the best chance of achieving the kind of M you want with you current P, and that going through DBing will help you enormously if you wind up moving on, which may, after all, turn out to be better than you might ever have guessed. But, until you know that for certain, without a doubt, it is far wiser and healthier to try the hardest to achieve a wonderful R with your present P. Then you will grow and know that you have done the right thing by your own lights no matter what.
Honor yourself, act with integrity, be honest, treat yourself with compassion. Long repetitive answer, but the wheel-spinning going on around here that becomes so obvious from a distance really does make my heart ache. And, I just want to help people step away from it. (Yes, I'm a fixer, guilty as charged.) But, whether or not you listen, I am sure you all will find your own ways and life will surprise you by how good it becomes. I am sure of that because to be here you have hearts and minds that will take you that way.
I am going to reply to your post(s) at length later but for now, I want to clarify one thing. My W did get me things for V day this year and as with any other year, I got her something. Period. I am ok with my decision to do what I feel is right even though you disagree. Honestly, I took offense (wrong. I don't want to do that anymore) to your post when I first read it but when I read it again I believe it to come from a good heart and I will reply with the same detail you posted with later on.
NYS, Rob, Lisa and everyone else. I am venting. Did I slip a bit in the convo? Sure, but it totally caught me off guard.
One thing I take to heart is in my mind I know that I am so much better a person today, for myself, and if my W notices, for her as well. If she does not notice, then oh well, I will eventually not notice her either...for now though, I do and no amount of DB slapping will change that. Only I can change me. I do, however, appreciate VERY much the support you all give me, especially the women whose perspective really helps me. Don't bail on me yet sassy. Look for more later.
Quit being more in the relationship than she is. GIVE HER MORE SPACE THAN SHE WANTS. Along with everything else she tells you, why didn't you tell her that you obsess about her 24/7 and make up elaborate stories upon which you then condemn her anytime she is out of your sight.
Yes. I should tell her that...er...I guess not. Good point. If it were that easy, I would not be seeing a therapist. I am getting there. I obsess here, and really, once I vent, I am usually ok.
Now, as for your grilling her (yes, you were). She is right, IMHO, you were attacking her, in an especially nasty passive aggressive manner. Why not just say, "gee, hon. you are right. I am very angry over this whole thing and I was being a little needling. That's not going to help anyone."
Again, harsh, but spot on. Really, what you said was the truth and they way I handled it was an emotional reaction that was inappropriate. The only mitigating factor is that she brought it up. I should have just listened and been done.
Do NOT give her a gift. She said she did NOT want to exchange gifts. She has regretted her decision and changed her mind about spending V-day with you. Do NOT give her a card AT ALL. MOST ESPECIALLY do not give her a card in which you try to write a few elegant lines that will move her and cause her to change her actions. Give her cards from your kid(s). If you must.
I am not going to write anything flowery or try to change her mind about anything. I got her a gift and it is generic. I got her a blank card with flowers on the front that I will write something short and to the point of wishing someone I care about a happy V-day, nothing more, nothing less.
Make plans for V-Day. Go out to dinner and a movie, go to a friend's house. Just tell her, I'm going out and the kids will be with me or at so-and-so's. GAL. You are coming off so needy, clingy, clenchy, and desparate both when you are up and down that it is unhealthy for you to continue to totally sacrifice yourself here.
I agree. Looking at things now, I see that I have slipped back into my "normal" pattern of clinging and being needy. I am putting a STOP to that NOW. Thank you. I am not above a little needy behavior but I am determined NOT to sacrifice myself. Thank you for the wake up. I am going to make sure I am gone with the boys before she leaves. I have no need to stick around for the drama.
She doesn't share info with you, why are you sharing info with her?
Because I am an idiot who uses honesty as a weapon. It's something I need to filter. I will make every effort to stop.
Also, note you have NO idea what she is doing tomorrow. Maybe she is getting laid. Maybe she is breaking up with someone. Maybe she is going to an AA meeting. You have no control over that.
Ok, for what it's worth, I think my original post about all this should have conveyed the idea that she indicated it was closer to a breakup than getting laid, but you are absolutely right, I have NO idea what she is up to. To Lisa, my ball was still going, eh.
YOUR CHOICE is to stay and tolerate a period of uncertainty, dishonesty, betrayal, withdrawal, craziness, and selfishness, OR NOT. That is YOUR CHOICE. You have made it because you feel that the genuine risk that things will not get better, but worse, is worth it because you are willing to endure that to save your marriage. This is admirable, but only insofar as you accept it as your choice and accept the responsibility for the day to day pain you continue to CHOOSE to expose yourself to.
Wow, that is the single most poignant piece of advice I have seen around here in a long time, at least for me, where I am at. I never really thought about it that way before but you are so right. I need to start taking responsibility for my own pain should I choose to subject myself to it. Choice. I have learned a lot about that word in a month and a half.
I would also seriously consider withdrawing from the Ireland trip. Why would you put yourself through the pain and humiliation of living a lie? Treat yourself better for F's sake. Do you thrive on the drama of being the tortured soul? Get away from it. S
Maybe I do thrive on the drama, but I also love to travel and I made up my mind a long time ago that I would endure whatever (well to a point) and if the R was manageable at this point (i.e. we are at least friends) then I would not miss this opportunity. This trip will be fine. I am going for my own reasons. It is the land of my ancestors and I really want to explore it. My W is going along too and if she plays a positive role in what I want to do, then great, if not, I will leave her to do her own thing and do mine. This is MY trip.
Drop the passive agressive martyring line. Pretty unattractive, and very unhealthy.
You are right. I will do that.
I really think you are doing great and becoming a stronger person. I know that you are a wonderful, compassionate, passionate, loving man or you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be such a good friend to your fellow DBers. But, this V-day thing has gotten you quickly into a downward spiral that is sucking you dry. Get out of it.
Make your own sweet, special Valentine with a picture of you and your child (per child) and give it to each of your children with a frame. Take them for ice cream and tell them that you love them very much. Cherish the wonderful intimate relationships that you have right now, and thought-stop the others out of your mind.
If she asks what is up, just be honest. Tell her you've reached your limits and must set some boundaries to respect your feelings. You insist on treating yourself with the love and concern that you deserve.
Thank you for all that. I appreciate your input and will try to implement it as I see fit. I will respond to your next post soon.
Wow, once again you are very impressive. You took a post that was hard to read and would have been easy to dismiss (mine) and really got something out of it. See why your DB pals admire you?
Also, you listened but you also stood up for yourself, holding your ground, while recognizing that we are trying to help.
Re the gift and card -- sorry, I misunderstood, I thought she said that she didn't want to receive gifts this year. Of course, I still think the boss rule is a good idea, after all, this isn't like any other year. And, re the card, your toned down version sounds much better than the "I'll never regret the last six months because..." line. Lol, the first Xmas after separation, I bought XH THREE Xmas cards, one funny, one friendly, one mushy. Ack, or maybe TWO mushy. Anyway, I gave him the funny one and let him "find" the mushy ones, which I then cried about not being able to "give" to him. YUCK. A simple "Merry Xmas from one who cares about you" would have been much better.
Now, nonlinearly, but taking advantage segue-wise, that XMas we faked it with his family. It was incredibly painful, and all a huge lie. He was heavily involved with OW on phone the whole time, etc. So, re Ireland, I may have been projecting a bit. I never should have gone on that Xmas trip, very unhealthy for me and was purely driven by desparation. With your Ireland trip, it seems like you have your own agenda and interest in going. So good for you. Enjoy it, it is a beautiful country and a ton of fun.
Being honest about when I am being needling or cutting is something I have to work on myself, so that is why I noticed it in you. Hey, everyone does it to some degree. At least if you try to cover it up it means you recognize that you weren't acting very well, lol.
Excellent idea to be gone before she leaves :-) Let her get the feeling of going off by herself without leaving anyone mooning after her. And, more important, you create the situation that treats you better :-)
And, re the choice thing, when I really internalized that is when I really changed in many positive ways. I was in control of it, I could set the limits and the boundaries on the pain, I could also more easily detach from it because it was no longer something that was being done to me as a victim.
All best and have a wonderful Vday with loved ones.
Trust me OT, impressive is not what I want to be, but honest, reflective and growing will do. If I manage to do some things that warrant anyone being impressed, then I will be honored. I did not initially want to even read your post. I thought it was a bit rude, and unfair, but like I said, when I stepped back and read it again, I realized that was the old me reading that post, and for that matter, reacting to all these things today. I can't promise to be better tomorrow. I may still vent, but I will do my best to let it remain here, among you all, and NOT contaminate my real life, with my family. Tomorrow will be hard but I will be ok. I hope all of you will take care on what is most of our hardest day yet.
Oh, and as for Ireland, I have NO expectations about what it will do for my R. I suspect that if nothing else it will be a great test of my newfound skills for not obsessing and just enjoying life, maybe even with my W for the first time in a long time. One thing is for sure, I will be enjoying things.
Thank you again for the time to post to my thread. You, along with NYS, Lisa and Rob made a difference tonight.
