It's all about finding that intimacy...what works for one person doesn't work for another. Personally, not a fan of massages, because due to my neck injury everyone gives me a neck rub when I am in severe pain. I don't find it sexual at all, its medicinal for me. However, I am a huge fan of believe it or not hand holding...I find that actually quite erotic.
Okay, enough of that...but you have to relearn what it is that works. I think NYS mentioned something about how foreplay starts early in the week...there may be something to that. Its about rediscovering one another and finding that place in your W heart that you had when you first met. How were you romantically then. That was probably what worked for her, because you won her heart, didn't you. You just have to find that place again. I think there was a great chapter in Mars/Venus that described points that men/women give/take away from one another. Wow, it was so very true when I read it and each and every time I reread it.
Okay...taking it further...check the temperature by perhaps you are both in the kitchen, touch her hand, brush by her, small intimate gestures. You don't need hugging, massaging, kissing, hell sometimes laughter is intimate. A shared joke between the two of you. A smile shared.
The warmth needs to be rebuilt between the two of you. She may feel that intimacy from you may be as simple as taking out the trash, picking up the kids, easing the burden of chores, etc...test the waters and see what gets you the results that you are looking for. Just like DBing, right?
Thanks for all that. I think back rubs are mechanical to her too, which is why they're safe.
I have been doing the small touches thing for awhile now. I have always done that but maybe not as much. Also, I am back to opening doors for her and doing more gentlemanly things. I know she appreciates that. It was another thing that changed after the kids. It's hard to remember to open a car door when you have a screaming kid to put in a car seat. I still should have managed tho.
As for the temperature taking thing. Ok, maybe I shouldn't say "Hey baby, wassup for the big V day?" But what should I say? I'm sure I can figure it out, just looking for a woman's perspective.
So my plan to get her nothing for V day other than a card seems inappropriate. So what do I do? I don't think anything too romantic would be right
Romantic overtures work best when the recipient is open to them.
I really like the dinner idea. I may do that.
Well, ya gotta eat anyway.
Hell, she may have a date planned. What do I do?
Ask if the date is available.
I think if I ask her, she will say to do nothing
Of course. That's why a guy is usually better off never asking what she wants to do, but just taking the lead based on your knowledge of what she likes to do.
Here's a short lesson on "woman-speak":
He: "Honey, what would you like to do?" She: "Nothing, baby. Really, it's OK/We can't afford it anyway/Anything you'd like to do is OK with me/Just staying home is fine/Don't go to any fuss, really.
Any of which means:
"Plan something nice and surprise me".
So, it could be dinner out, or dinner in. And chocolates, mmmm.
My history with ALL holidays is that I really like to go all out for her
Going "all out" isn't the impressive key you think it is.
As for the sex thing, it has never really been all that natural for us. It has been good (I think) for both of us but getting started has been an issue. She doesn't believe in a woman being aggressive when it comes to initiation so she hardly ever did it. I somehow developed some esteem issues along the way and found it hard to initiate so I would resort to the "test run" method of seeing if she was in the mood (i.e. try touching somewhere during back rub, etc) and that was how it usually worked... after being shut down more than a few times, I guess I got tired of the rejection and stopped.
You got into a rut, a routine where a back rub becomes associated with you wanting sex. This happened to me too. I'd start off rubbing her back, not because I wanted sex, but I'd get turned on massaging her back and would therefore desire to have sex.
After my breakup, one day when she was here packing things, I noticed she was rubbing her neck and I asked her if she'd like me to massage her neck for her. She did, and into the massage we moved over to the bed, she disrobed a bit and I continued to massage her back and just kept it in mind that this was not about having sex. I ended up giving her what she called "the best massage of her life", now that sex was out of its equation and it was purely an act of service to her, no strings attached.
Now I'm not saying I didn't get turned on, nor that I didn't want to jump her bones, but that I focused on her needs, and put mine away for the moment.
Now, that was in June of '04. We did nothing like that again. Fast forward to May of '05, we were at a photography exhibit together, and from standing and walking all day, she mentioned her feet were starting to hurt, and I simply rubbed her back slightly in an empathetic way. I mentioned that my back was starting to hurt from just standing around and she said, "Would you like me to rub your back?" I was like, duh, yeah! So she got behind me and slipped her hand under my shirt and rubbed away at the small of my back. I was floored!
What to surmise? Maybe that back rubs no longer were signals for sex, and now, without sex as a component in it, they could become venues for demonstrating care.
Trust me all, I am world away from where I used to be, but this stuff still affects me a lot. I tried to call W to tell her me and the boys were heading out to meet her for lunch, per our plans. She has been at the gym for almost 1 1/2 hours and should have been done with her w/o long ago. She was only going to do light cardio. So she doesn't answer. She calls back about 15 min later saying that she expected me to call and just wanted to let me know she had one more station of weights to do and she was ready to go...and oh, by the way, could I just take the boys out to lunch because she wanted to return some things to a store out by the gym and meet us later at the mall. So I guess lunch with the OM is in order today. Either that or a quickie...er...oh...it's not physical...I forgot. Anyway, I am stewing but I will get a handle on it. Have to before I see her. Does she think I am stupid, or does she just not care? Actually I know the answer is neither, she just doesn't think about what I may be thinking. It's not about me...remember...(that was to myself). I am going to try and let this roll off but I find it hard with all the positive things going on. I am now starting to wonder if all that stuff is just a smoke screen to get me to be more complacent. I am distrusting a lot of things right now, but I think I have that right. If there are words to make me feel better, then I would love to hear them, if not, tis ok too.
If there are words to make me feel better, then I would love to hear them, if not, tis ok too.
This is where it helps as you know to detach and not personalize. So go have a good lunch with the boys. Perhaps even just make a day of it with just the boys. Come home around dinner time. Just make it a guy day.
Weren't there a couple other times you felt sure she was off with the OM and then found out later that was not the case. I seem to remember her taking too long at the lawyer and you got very upset for no reason. (Well not no reason. It's hard to start trusting someone who has repeatedly lied.) Try not to jump to conclusions. It just makes you upset.
Definitely go have lunch with your kids....make an afternoon out of it...Chuck E Cheese or some other place where you can get lost for the afternoon. Don't answer her calls, becasue she will call to see where you are when you don't meet her as expected or call her - blame it on the old, must have accidently put my phone on silent....
You have an opportunity today for many different kinds of 180's....see what you can come up with.
Interesting. When I talked to my W after lunch (she was supposed to be meeting us for some shopping) she went into this long, drawn out explanation about what she was doing all morning and why, in particular, the shopping she was doing took so long. At one point I even tried to interrupt her and she insisted on finishing the entire explanation. Very strange for my W. She usually does not do that, especially lately. Who knows, maybe she's telling the truth. Broken trust sucks sometimes.
Ok, I can't find the story I was told about the Kitchen Aid but damn if that wasn't spot on. I think it was Lisa...thank you.
What I am getting at is I just had one of those moments. My W has been mentioning wanting that Razr phone since before Christmas...hint...hint... I didn't get it because we didn't qualify for an upgrade. Even after Christmas, she kept talking about it even though it was expensive and she manages the money. I still didn't do anything. I had about $250 in gift cards to Best Buy and I was had the thing in my hands to buy but I balked because the extra it would cost over that would really put us close to poor and it was foolish to do that...er....yea. So today, we were out getting some stuff for my business (computer stuff) and out of the blue, my W asks if I have any GC's left. I said yes, and she said what about available credit on the CC? I said we had some. It should also be mentioned here that I am hitting my busy season in wedding photography right now and we can afford a bit more than usual. SO, she says, do they have that phone at Best Buy? I said yes, and she asked if we could just go get it. I said sure. I was planning on it sooner or later (well,before the bombs anyway). So we went to get it and she even made the comment that it was her Christmas present. I know this sounds strange, and could be taken the wrong way (WAW spending H's money on extravagant things while planning to leave him...etc...) but really it's the first time I have ever seen her just ask for something. Usually she hints and insinuates. I was totally happy to do it. It's our money and she hardly ever spends any on herself.
What I think I learned is much like that other story, my W wants what she wants, not every other similar thing I get her instead of the real thing. I have been really guilty of that in the past, preferring to surprise her with something I came up with instead of what she said she wanted. No wonder why she is always a bit disappointed. This was a MAJOR lesson for me.
One more piece of news. I mentioned to her that this could also be her V-day present and slipped in a "By the way, are we doing V-day this year?" She looked at me funny and responded with a "yes". The way she said it was that I was kinda foolish to ask. So now what? I guess I just get her something she'd want. She has been talking about needing a jacket for Ireland and I thought I could get her one (and keep the receipt of course). Add a flower and card. Good?
Lastly, the bad news. I slipped on my DB and backslid a little into my old sarcasm. When we were walking to the parking lot, I made the comment that now she had her new phone, new car, and new "other things". Immediately after I said it I hoped she didn't hear, or get what I meant, but of course she did. She said "what other things..." and then "Yea, I didn't think we could get through this without a comment. Well, it's early in the day, keep it going..." I felt terrible. I managed to take something nice and turn it into something negative. I think I recovered ok. I said "No, I will not keep anything going. I am really happy to have done this." I did not dwell on it. We just changed the subject and moved on. The rest of the day was nice. Dinner was good, and the rest of the night goes on...
