Allright, well, here it is. I did at least approach this with some tact. I pushed a little, but not very hard. I didn't confront her with facts, etc...just badgered about R and such. I feel so damn numb. Its times like these that I hate myself for being so attached. GH, thank you for your advice...you truly did save me from a big major blowout...the blow was softened.
In any event, I learned nothing, I know nothing, I gained nothing. I want so hard to focus on the positives becasue there are so many, why can't I let go!?! I can't even follow my own advice. In the end, I know I'm going to blow this M right out the window because I can't detach.
So here I am, chasing that wagon that I fell off down the lane......
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
GH, truly, thank you for your help. I'm really disappointed in myself at this point. I just need to get back to my center and focus.
and Yes, I think I'm gonna stop cleaning house.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
In the end, I know I'm going to blow this M right out the window because I can't detach.
I disagree. You are going to blow this M out the window because you can't stop obsessing over things you make up in your own head. My C says it's imperative that we live from our soul, our center (she's a little bit spiritual at times). She says that my problem is that I live in my head, in the land of cognition. I am constantly living in the past or future because I cannot stop myself from thinking the "what if's" about things that happened, or things I THINK may happen in the future. She said that in that way I have never really been there for my W or anyone else because I was off somewhere in my own world, trying to control reality by playing it all out in my head and planning my reactions to things that may never happen. I don't know about you, but I can't seem to control this very well, but it is my #1 goal in self improvement. Live in the moment, for the moment and do not try to understand it's meaning beyond the moment. I think you need to detach, but also you need to find some way to stop you mind from "knowing" things it cannot, nor should not know.
You know you're right, I know you're right. I have to make that my focus....maybe that is my number one self-improvement goal as well because I see myself doing it constantly.
Truly, thanks again GH, you continue to be a constant wealth of good advice and support.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Okay, well, in light of my recent backslide, I've been doing some thing about a few things from my experience and I thought I would post for others to read as well, just in the event that others can learn from it. Please understand, that I am thorougly ashamed of my actions during that time, I wasn't a good person at all.
As I've said before, I am not new to this situation because I too once was a WAS back in 2004. So my experiences from the other side of the fence hopefully witll provide some insight. I guess number one, any feelings I had for the OW did NOT die overnight. When my W did find things out, it was a very harsh reality for her. In the weeks leading up to the her finding out, I was cold, distant, etc. My W knew something was up, but I lived in the land of denial. Eventually, she found a tm that I had sent to OW. She called me on the carpet and confronted me. The tm itself was fairly innocous, but telling enough. We fought very hard that night (I believe it was a Saturday). In any event, the next day came and I think I took of work on Monday. That day, my W was set to leave, she asked me if I wanted her to stay and I couldn't answer her. I strongly remember D10 (at the time D8) was completely distraught at the thought of leaving. W did leave, for about three hours and came home ... some of this is a blur. I tried convincing my W that nothing was up. Yeah, right. That week, things were moving along at a hectic pace, the OW was pressuring me because I had told her to back off, W was pressuring me because she knew something was up.
I lived in a world of lies. I was telling my W one thing (nothing was going on) and telling the OW another thing (I wanted to be with her, etc.). When I was around the OW, I downplayed the drama at home, made it seem like there was nothing worth saving (again, please do not judge me, I too was abducted by aliens). When I was at home, I tried to be the loving husband.
On that Friday, everything came to a screeching halt. I'm at work and all of a sudden W calls me, frantic, angry, etc, telling me that she had talked to the OW and that the OW had confirmed everything! At the same time while I was on the phone with W, OW came storming into my office demanding to know WTF was going on! I got OW out of my office and dealt with my W. Finally I admitted it, I admitted to being in love with OW. W was inconsolable, told me that I needed to get home right then and there or she was driving to my work with the three children and making a scene. Even in the midst of all this...I still went and talked to OW before leaving, basically being torn between my family and OW. I think at the time I even gave OW the impression that things weren't going to work
I got home, my wife confronted me again, but this time OW had forwarded all kinds of e-mails to W from me to her and her to me. Etc. Shameful stuff. Horrible. Basically, W was so beyond peeved, she was numb. At that point, she told me that either I needed to get away or she did. I told her that I would go to my dad's upstate. Never did we talk of ending it or continuing the M or R.
So I left on Friday, went to visit dad. Still unsure of what to do. While there, dad of course gave me the talk of doing what was right for the family etc, but then followed it up with, well you have to do what makes you happy. I should add that on the way up, W called me and accused me of going to see OW, which I hadn't.
Satruday comes, things explode even further. I got tms from W, tms from OW....apparently, they had been talking quite a bit. Way too much for my comfort level. W calls and tells me that I need to cut it off RIGHT NOW. So I called OW and basically gave her the speech. But I did it half-heartedly. Instead of cutting the cord, I felt bad for her and for myself because I was losing what I thought was a love. Stayed on the phone for 23 minutes. Called W back and told her that I had said it was over. Still, W and OW talked. I spent the whole day on the phone. At some point, my W thought it would be a great idea if all three of us got together and had a chat. WTF?? I agreed, not sure why, but I did. Told W I was coming back on Sunday to do that. Well, OW got cold feet (thank goodness) and said no way. I still came home on Sunday...a rainy day. I still remember W on the porch with a mutual friend of ours who then knew of the sitch.
I guess this is the real important part because this is where it gets into the sitch that I see myself in right now. Basically I had come home to make things right. Told my W that this was what I had wanted and everything. We didn’t talk much about anything, just kinda resumed our lives at that moment.. So Monday comes, I’m back to work and who do you think I ended up talking too? Of course, OW, I had NOT quit her. In fact, I was telling her that while I had come back to be with W, W was not taking it so well and it was likely that the M was over. The point being, even after all the proverbial sh*t hit the fan, I still did not quit OW. That week was completely horrible….my boss found out about the EA and she was less than pleased. By Friday, I had lost my position and was demoted to another position. I lost a good chunk of pay and my dignity, and several day suspension. I reported back to work on July 28, 2004 a Wednesday. Those days off were very surreal. My W had all the questions, all the “what ifs”, wanted all the reassurances, etc. Basically told me that I should never have any part of OW ever again.
Wednesday, I come to work…that first week, I did okay. Didn’t see OW because now I was on a different floor than her. Although I did run across her on several occasions during smoke breaks (just a side note, before A, W and I had given up smoking for nearly 3 ˝ years, we started again). I tried to ignore her, but eventually over the course of the next few weeks we became chummy again. This went on for a couple of weeks. Big mistake, because I had been burned by this woman before…so what do you think she did?? You got it, she eventually let my W know all about it. Another exchange of e-mails, angry calls, etc. Finally, at that moment I knew that I had to make myself quit this woman or else!
I don’t think I had any contact with her after then. She used to call me regularly and I’d usually dodge the call, but every once in a while…… In the meantime, I was really working at home…and by working, I mean my W was really working. I can remember the “reassurance talks”, the constant “where were you when I called”, the “how much money do you need to spend”, etc. The fact is, I acted much like my W is acting right now when it came to R talk. Sit stone faced, say nothing, and never confirm. Example: When my W would ask me if I rather have her leave, the response: I didn’t say that. Guess what response I get when I ask that question now? I used to tell W that I loved her, and she would always follow up with “very much?” and I would say of course, very much. Yeah, not very reassuring.
See what I’m getting at? Yes, I was back….but did I beg for forgiveness? No. Was I remorseful? Not really. Did I do everything I could to really show my W that I came back out of pure love for her? Again, not really. I basically went on, day to day, like nothing was wrong. This was outward. How was I feeling inside? At first I hurt. I grieved the loss of OW, questioned whether I shouldn’t have pursued it further…etc, questioned whether W was the woman for me. Did I love my W, yes. Yes I did. I knew that I couldn’t live my life without her, but yet the nagging feelings for OW. I did backslide and talk to OW occasionally, even though I knew that if my W found out, it would be the end. Why? I have no idea.
Eventually, the OW transferred to another agency across town. By that time, the feelings were most gone (I say mostly, but not all). I had controlled my urges for some time and I didn’t feel the need to have OW in my life, but I did talk to her now and again, but its been at least a year now from the last time she called me and when she did at that time, none of the old feelings resurfaced. I had found love in my M, I had renewed my wedding vows.
Sorry this is an extremely long post, but on two levels, its is helpful. One, to those LBS’s, please do not give up hope! Secondly, to me, now I see the true error of my ways and must recognize that my W ate a lot more than I am right now and she still stuck by me.
Thanks for reading…..
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Well, that was eye opening. I would love to say it gives me hope, but it really doesn't that much. Much like someone else recently who posted a similar account of being a WAS, it scares me. The addiction factor is the worst part. I guess that's where all your feelings come from these days. You've been there and you fear your W is experiencing that same pull. Well, I would add a little something to my advice to you. If you cannot find a way to detach otherwise, maybe realize that you owe her some time to work this out since you obviously took some time to work yours out. I am not saying tit-for-tat, just maybe you could realize that more than most of us, you KNOW there could be a positive outcome, even if you have to suffer through a little more of the process. Or, is it that you feel that you only did what was right when you were pressured to? I know we have been through this, but it does bring back that question of DB vs Ultimatum again. Are you afraid that since pressure worked on you, and you are not TRYING to pressure her, that she may walk?
Yes, I think a lot of my feelings come from the fact that I have been to the edge and I know how addicting it is. I know for a fact that this is the same exact thing she is experiencing and it scares the living sh*t out of me. It was really tough for me to sort that out.
But, I want you to think about something GH, it should give you hope...in the long run. Eventually that spark died. At first it wasn't easy, but within 6 months of its beginning, it had faded. That's the thing to focus on.
Quote: If you cannot find a way to detach otherwise, maybe realize that you owe her some time to work this out since you obviously took some time to work yours out.
Yes, I am slowly coming to that realization now. Basically, she is giving me the same as I gave her. I was there, we lived "as if", but it was a separate thing when I was here at work. Why should, or could, I expect more? I expect to suffer quite a bit more....I guess the only thing more she is giving me right now than I gave to her then, is honestly about her emotions. I never let on that my emotions were still there for OW, my W has never denied her emotions for OM.
Quote: Or, is it that you feel that you only did what was right when you were pressured to?
Yeah, I think some resentment stems from that. I want to be able to say to her, "hey, I did what it took to make sure we stayed together when the chips were down, why can't you?" But, if I did, then I'm not being honest with her or with myself. I really didn't...I came back, withstood the pressure and eventually the spark died. And here is where my memory gets a little hazy. I do remember a good deal of pressure during that time, like I said, phone calls, constant reassurances, etc. but in hindsight, my W did a lot of acting "as if". She did a lot of 180's too. Started fixing herself up very nice, made sure she was dressed to the nines on Friday when I got home, even though we weren't going anywhere, more phsyical contact, etc. So, maybe in her own way...she was DBing, she just didn't have a name for it.
Quote: I know we have been through this, but it does bring back that question of DB vs Ultimatum again. Are you afraid that since pressure worked on you, and you are not TRYING to pressure her, that she may walk?
Again, based upon what I remember, there was pressure, but there was a lot of "as ifs"....many days she wouldn't mention the A, she wouldn't talk about the R, we went on with life, for the most part, like it didn't happen. So in a way, my sitch mirrors hers. I caught them together, confronted them, she goes away for the weekend, comes back, devotes herself to the M and trying to get over the emotions and wants to pick up life where it left off. I guess its now up to me to do the acting "as if" and follow through.
In short, don't give up hope here GH, I really thought I had nothing in my M, I saw every negative there ever was, I wasn't concenred that my girls might not grow up w/o daddy...I was, in short, all of those things, but in the end I did come around.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Yes, that was VERY eye-opening and brave of you to write about your sitch honestly from the WAS's point of view. Now...from the other side...
What do you think your situation would have been had you continued to work in the same place as the OW? Do you really think you could have gone back to your W completely with her still around? Please give your true opinion about this.
My H is still has daily contact with OW and sees nothing wrong (cake-eating in EA form , if not PA). Totally unrepentent. Totally uninterested in anything but separation with me until I change?!. He knows I still love him, although I have made it clear that I have needed to get out of his line of trajectory given his choices (said this calmly, without accusation..."you have a right to live your life any way you choose. Right now, I need to get out of your line of trajectory because your choices are not good for me"). His reaction? He didn't understand why I had to leave. Thought being in the house with him until we separate would be fine??!! After I came back (could only afford 2 days in a hotel), he said he was sad at first, but adjusted and thought it ok.(??!!!))It's almost as if he's both TOTALLY detached AND setting me up and testing me...forcing me to be the one to leave him so he can blame me, be free of obligation, and confirm the fact that he's not worthwhile - he's bad and was left again - WTF!!!??? He is so out of touch with his emotions, it's hard to talk with him. You have been so forthwright in this forum...were you a 'closed book' to your wife like my H is?
Quote: What do you think your situation would have been had you continued to work in the same place as the OW? Do you really think you could have gone back to your W completely with her still around? Please give your true opinion about this.
I struggle with this to this day for a variety of reasons. One, because my W works in the same place as OM everyday. Two, because I'm not sure. Honestly, I believe so. You have to understand, my memory on this stuff can be hazy (strange, like living in a fog) but if I recall, by the time OW had transferred, I had mostly gotten over those feelings. I did not have the need to see her, I avoided her the best I could. I did not initiate contact. That is not to say that she didn't contact me, because she did, on occassion. I took some of those calls, but kept them very even-keeled. But we also worked in separate parts of the building. She just couldn't come waltzing down here and I didn't go up there. So honestly, I don't know. I know I had to avoid her if I had an honest chance, but could it work if I saw her every day? You know, I think I have to say yes. Once the spark dies, it dies.
Quote: He is so out of touch with his emotions, it's hard to talk with him. You have been so forthwright in this forum...were you a 'closed book' to your wife like my H is?
You don't even know the half of it. I rememer the weeks leading up to the day she found out, I was downright cold and rude. I remember her begging to know what was wrong, I would tell her nothing and she would keep at it. One night, we got into it for like the hundredth time....she was on and on. I didn't want anything to do with it. I said "I'm going next door to hang out, you can either come with me or not. Your choice." Now think about this...I never, even once left her hanging in an argument like this. At that point, I could care less. So yes, i was completely emotionally detached from her. I was cold. She attended several family b-day parties and the like by herself and our children because I didn't want to go (obstensibly because I was working very hard on fixing things around the house, but mainly because I just wanted her to go!)
And yes, at one point, my W laid it out and said she was leaving. I didn't try to stop her, I sat on the living room floor and played Playsation, she was only gone for a few hours, yet I was sad and also a little relieved at the time. Even when she did go away for the weekends, I didn't miss her. At times I secretly wished that she would either leave me so I wouldn't have to leave her or find someone else so I wouldn't feel guilty.
This is brutal honesty. Sorry, but I guess its like an episode of talking tough. See the full range of my emotions? See how horribly I treated her? And yet, in the end, thanks to her allowing me to give her a chance, I did come back.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: And yet, in the end, thanks to her allowing me to give her a chance, I did come back
I meant to say that thanks to her for allowing me the chance to come back.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
