I think you have to separate your life from his confusion. Your life is not contingent on what he may or may not do in the future. The rule of thumb is to proceed with your life as if he's not going to be a part of it, and I think that makes a lot of sense.
Thanks hope- I appreciate your honesty. I think my problem right now is more with myself. He is blaming all of this on me, and i am allowing it b/c i am too afraid to stand up to him. This is what is making me feel worse...that i am letting this happen to me. I don't know what my problem is...i avoid confrontation at all costs. And anytime i try to stand up to him, he twists and turns it and holds me down. He totally blew our conversation this afternoon out of proportion by getting angry. I don't know why he was getting so pissed off. All i was trying to understand was how selling the house affects a potential D. Thats it. He got all mad about god knows what. And yes, he did turn it back on me...he does it all the time. He knows exactly which buttons of mine to push in order to get his way. I don't know he won't just say this is what he wants. He feels like he gave into what i wanted. He wanted the house sold in 2 years, with a 70/30 split (his favor of course). I wanted the house sold immediately, with a 50/50 split. What we came up with was the house sold in one year, with a 60/40 split. To me, that seems like a compromise...but maybe i'm crazy. I think he sees this as me just getting away with something...again. He feels like our M has always been about me and my needs. Which, i will say, is mostly true. I think he is trying to make up for it now by insisting that things are done his way. And when they aren't, he gets pissed. But i think he is equally pissed with himself. I don't know...i don't want to do this.
Thanks NYS- I know you are right. The thing is, i don't know how to separate my life from his. Yes, its my life. But, how can I really move on when my life is tied to this man? I don't know if i am saying this right. I just don't understand how to do what you are suggesting. I guess i see it as it all being tied together.
I don't know what my problem is...I avoid confrontation at all costs.
That sounds like a problem.
And anytime I try to stand up to him, he twists and turns it and holds me down.
That suggests controlling behaviors on his part.
He got all mad about god knows what.
He wasn't getting his way so he stepped up ugly behavior to intimidate you.
He knows exactly which buttons of mine to push in order to get his way.
You have to learn how to cut those buttons off within yourself so as not to react. That's detachment.
The thing is, I don't know how to separate my life from his. Yes, its my life. But, how can I really move on when my life is tied to this man?
Your life isn't tied to him. It wasn't tied to him before you met him, and it isn't to him now. That's obvious, as he's going about without being tied to you.
An example of you tieing yourself into him is how you are thinking, "but if we don't divorce then as far as the house goes..." where you may be better served thinking "OK, if we end up selling the house then I..." Another example is in thinking, "but back in September, he said..." and expecting him to keep what he said constant to serve as a basis for your decisions now.
The key is to simply and purposefully engage your life to yourself, not on what others think/do/say/ or might think/do/say. Go after your own pursuits, build your social network, live your own life as if he's not a part of it.
You don't lose anything, but you'll gain a lot. I say you don't lose anything, except for the heartaches. As my lawyer told me when I signed the divorce papers... he looked at me and said, "I'm really sorry your wife couldn't find her way back to you. But I want you to know that there's nothing in these papers that can't be reversed."
I am sooo sorry I have not been around more. I have been lurking and reading your thread though over the last month.
I have to agree with NYS that you are attaching tons of meeting to the house thing—I have done that too with my H’s condo that he purchased.
Well, I have not been a good DB buddy so I don’t know if you even want to hear from me but perhaps my not pasting will give me a different perspective. BTW- I know you wrote this when you were mad and emotional but here is what I see……
I told him that i did, but that it seems as if what i have to say doesn't make a difference anyway.
I could see how this would make him feel defensive and I think that is what happened.
His response: your opinion is important. Wow . Maybe he has not shown this in the past but is trying to show this now.
Really? Could have fooled me! Anyway, this descended into a conversation where he just got angry, i tried not to get defensive (when what i really wanted to tell him was FU) and we basically hung up. He said how i was the one who insisted that the house be sold, but that he had been willing to hang on and see what happens. This was news for me. I told him how when we went to the mediator back in September he presented it as the D was inevitable. So, my stance regarding the house was that it would be sold, b/c i didn't want him living there after we D. He basically flip-flopped and said this was my doing, yada yada. He just got pissed off. I tried to explain to him that if he feels the D isn't a done deal, then of course the house didn't have to be sold. But, he really had no comment about that. I asked him if this was just another way to punish me, and he said no, b/c i was getting more money than he felt i was entitled to anyway when the house is sold (a$$hole). Then he tried to be a martyr...how he made the phone call out of common courtesy so i wouldn't be blindsided tonight. Gee, like i didn't see the real estate folder when i was there on Sunday.
When I get mad … I do it 110%. I too usually avoid confrontations. So I feel your pain. It is so similar to what my H and me do : scrape open old wounds and reference things from a long time ago.
This is dwelling in the past for both of you… I would just forget this entire part of the convo … OF COURSE you both got defensive. You were both taking “stances” and positions: it was about who is right and who wronged whom. Also, like I said above you are both attaching a lot of meaning and giving a lot of power to a house. MY DB coach really had me work on deconstructing the meaning I was attaching to my H’s condo. Still have a long way to go on that but it really helped me to let go a bit.
HH wrote this great post to me about only being able to remember the last 2 weeks- there is some wisdom in this. I realize with myself that I always get stuck when I pull up the past. I can even be doing well and then I think of how he hurt me and betrayed me (and in that sense is stilt hurting me ) and then I can cry , get angry and instantly spiral. Also, this 2 week thing frees you up more to seethe person as a person… not as a non-human bad guy.
I am not saying that you roll over and be walked on but feeling compassion can free you up to focus on yourself and create a feeling of safety in your interaction with H. Really, what if you just chuck it up to feelings taking over and not give that interaction so much weight. What if you said instead: how nice that he didn’t want to blindside me . How nice that he values my opinion. (There are a lot of great techniques in the Divorce as Friends book and website).
He tried to insinuate that selling the house is only accelerating the D. How? If there was a chance that the D wasn't going to happen, then i would be willing to hold off on selling. But, he said, no, this is what you (me) wanted. I did remind him however how he said when we first were doing the agreement, that if things changed we could just throw it out. So, what's the problem now?
Clearly, he does not know what he wants. IMO he is trying to avoid deciding. Are you ready to decide or do you want to still hold on? That is the question, I guess.
How do i handle this? Do i express my feelings over this? I want to tell him how he made me feel today.
I am sure he knows- but there is no way he can HEAR this now. In the end, you probably made him feel not –so- good too. (I am not excusing him AT ALL. I just know how those arguments spiral.) Don’t let this argument have so much power over you!
OK, I wrote this in a hurry. I can’t miss my train but I really wanted to write you something. If you get this AFTER seeing him and things blew up… just take a breath from that and don’t give it so much importance.
Yes, I know easier said than done… all of this. I also know it is a big oversimplification. Maybe I am just in the mood to play devil’s advocate! brava
Me: 36 He: 34 no kids Married: 2000 He left: July 05
I hope everything went well and that you're OK. I know you're upset about him suggesting selling the house but you can't let him push your buttons so easily. It's amazing how good our Hs can be at getting a rise out of us. Sometimes I think my H does it to me just to prove he still can.
It sucks that you're having to go through this. ((((Imdi))))
Hey brava - thank you for taking the time to respond...of course i love to hear from you...you always break things down for me in a less emotional way....i appreciate it. I did read your post after i saw him last night...
H called me before i went to tell me he had cancelled our appointment with the vet b/c he didn't know how long the house discussion would take.
I got to the house and he had a spread sheet of how much the house could sell for, minus fees and then our split. He also had papers from the realtor that he met with last week. He showed me everything and explained it all to me. So, we signed the papers to put the house on the market by the end of the month.
Then, i began a R discussion...i know, wrong, but i couldn't take it anymore. I even told my H how i am always censoring myself, but that it was tearing me up inside. I explained how i interpreted our meeting back in September (that the D was inevitable) and he did agree that he said those things and understood how i thought that. But, he also said something about how he also said we would see how things go. He also mentioned how he can no longer afford to live there by himself. I told him how i felt he was blaming me when we spoke in the afternoon. He apologized and said that that wasn't his intention. I tried to tell him how i would not be in a rush to sell if there was still a chance for us. I also told him how i thought he was confused about what he wanted. He then said that maybe i was right, and that we should just put an end to things, instead of dragging it out. I told him that that wasn't what i was saying and he said well, it is and it isn't (he was right...i guess i was looking for any decision). We proceeded to talk about things, and i know it wasn't good DBing.
I also brought up ow by asking him if he loved her. At first he looked at me kind of confused and then said that he wasn't going down that road. I told him that i didn't blame him and that i wasn't angry, but that there were too many things and that i had found him there too many times (not really) and that i just wanted to know. He refused to discuss it. I said that if it was a no, then he would have just said that, so i guess it wasn't a no. He said that i had to believe whatever i had to believe but that he wasn't going to discuss it. Iassured him that i didn't want to believe that at all.
I asked him what happens after our D is final...do we just never speak again. He said he didn't think he could do that...never speak to me again. He also said that there is still a big part of him that wants to give me another chance. I told him how i had been praying a lot, for a miracle. And how i had prayed for just one more night to sleep next to him. He started to cry. Then i told him how i had these images of us being outside, gardening together and then getting into a water fight...and that i don't even like to garden. With that, he started to cry even more and told me to stop, that i always do this...that i build him up and then just knock him down. We cried for a while. Then we kind of got ourselves together and we both left the house...he said he was going to his brothers (?).
I don't know what to do. Yes, i was attaching a lot of meaning to the house, i guess b/c i saw selling the house and getting D going hand in hand. There was no discussion of when he would file, etc. I don't know if that means anything.
When i got home i talked to my aunt for a while. She said that it is clear that he doesn't know what he wants, otherwise he could have filed for D at any point during the last 2+ years.
So, do i just let it go and not bring it up anymore? Just see what happens? Or do i make it clear that the D is not what i want? He said that this purgatory we've been living in has just been torturous for both of us. God, i don't know what to do. I don't want this to happen. I feel like my whole life is spiraling out of control and i can't stop it. I hate this.
Slow down and take a deep breath. Even if you sell your house that is not the end of the world. It does not mean that there is no hope. Your H may very well not be able to afford the place on his own and he does not want to be backed into a corner. Maybe not having that weight on him will free up his thinking in other areas.
You said your H could have filed for D any time in the past two years. Refresh my memory. How long have you been living apart? I guess I'm glad to be living somewhere with conservative D laws--my H will not be able to file until we've been living apart (and no sex) for a year.
Anyway, keep your chin up. Remember this is a rollercoaster so even though you're down now things cannot stay that way for too long.
Hey SS- Thanks for your reply. My H has been saying for months that he couldn't afford to be living in our home, especially after our taxes went up so much in the fall. I guess i have to try not to associate D with selling the house. You could be right...maybe he didn't feel ready to make a decision about us yet, but wanted to take advantage of the spring market.
My H and I have been separated for 15 months. In NJ, you have to be separated (living apart and no sex - oops) for 18 months in order to file for a "no-fault" D. Meaning there would be no reason listed for the D. Otherwise, he could have filed at any time, and listed a cause (i.e. mental cruelty, abandonment, infidelity, etc.). I was thinking that he was waiting until May (that would be 18 months). I mean, we waited this long, whats another 3 months. Should i suggest that? That if he feels very strongly about D, that he wait until May? Or just not mention it?
The hard thing is how he can call me up on Sunday night, starting off the conversation with "hi lovie" and then tell me he misses me and is so lonely. Does this make any sense? And a few days later, we are planning on selling the house. Should i place any weight on that phone call at all? I mean, should i even think about it? Thats what is so confusing. And he admits that we have an amazing connection in so many areas, and that we can have a good time doing pretty much anything. But, he can't get past all the hurt (and not just about my "betrayal"). I think most of the hurt is how i have pushed him away. I guess part of my problem last night was that i based my reaction on believing that there is an ow, and that he is leaving me to be with her. I'm not saying that there is no ow, but nothing is set in stone. And i know that i was desperate, trying to hold onto him. He actually said that when we were in therapy last year, that we were both "desperate." I don't think so...but maybe thats how he saw it. So, what do i do? I desperately don't want this. He does still seem to have mixed feelings about it. He believes that getting away from me will get him away from the hurt and pain. I don't think so, but thats just me.
Anyway, i am rambling. Thanks for your feedback...i was starting to feel like i was going to lose it b/c no one had responded, and i really needed some feedback. Thank you.
I know what you mean about the no feedback. It can be agonizing to think no one cares. Of course it's because we all tend to be up and down at the same time. I find I shouldn't give any advice when I'm feeling down.
So anyway try to focus on just the financial side of things with the house. It sucks that money issues can really bog down a M. I know that my only working part-time has been a real big reason my H feels he can't trust me as I haven't been pulling my weight financially. It's not as if I haven't tried to get a better job--just I'm in a competitive field and the job marked sucks now. I'm hoping to change this soon so I will see what my H's reaction will be.
I don't know about your M, but I was always the strong one in my M and I guess I never realized my H was not cut out to hold the burden for us both (even though in the beginning of our R it was just me working because my lovely Brit didn't have his work permit yet.)
Oh and here's a bit of bizarre news. Ken and Barbie may be getting back together after two years apart. Maybe there's hope for us all yet.
Maybe there's hope for us all yet.