Imdi, Seems like both our H’s are confusing the heck out of us this week. I need to clarify your situation so I truly understand it: your H. had an affair with someone, and during your separation you had a male friend but nothing happened with him, yet your H. believes something did, is that right? And now your H. has o.w. I just don’t understand where he gets off saying he needs you to pay for something you didn’t even do…and yet HE is the one who had an affair first. This makes me mad for you. Before I post anything else I’ll let you reply back, so that I know I have the story right. Just try to relax and get through the day; we’ll talk here. Hugs, Hope
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
I know you've said before but I've forgotten. What was your betrayl?
It's amazing how much your H sounds like mine. Just before my H's dad died I was on a cross-country trip with my sister. I was pissed off at him for going on a trip to NYC with a friend of his and doing things I didn't approve of so when he called me I didn't respond.
Well, as it turns out, his dad had taken a turn for the worse and he really needed me. Unfortunately I didn't know how important it was to him and I was in the middle of Wyoming with minimal cell reception.
In so many arguments he brings this up again and again as an example as to how I wasn't there for him. When I checked our cell phone records I discovered that mere days after this was his first call to OW#1.
I don't know what to tell you. All I can say is we both just gradually have to build up their trust in us. Maybe we both need to ask our Hs what we can do to build that trust. Of course that could just push them away further.
I guess the best thing to do is just to take things slowly.
I don't know if I have commented on the aspect of your sitch where you still ML to your H even with a D looming. That is very strange to me. I would love to ML to my W but I don't think that would be possible at all right now. Even if she is not having a PA, the EA prevents her from doing it. Has your H always believed that ML was an expression of love, or is it just sex? You seem to see it as love, and if he does too, then I can't help but think that his continuing to do this with you betrays his real feelings. Again, I can't imagine my W desiring to ML right now with me. Maybe it's just a guy thing, and I hope not, because it would mean he's just after sex and nothing else from you. No matter what, he clearly still feels something. He's clearly still confused. He is admitting that he has walls built up that are preventing him from giving you another chance but then peeks around them every once in awhile to see what the other side looks like. I don't know if that's reason for hope but it is reason to wonder. Just don't wonder from your heart, do it from your head. ((((imdi))))
My betrayal (i will try to keep it short). When my H and I first separated in 11/04, it was a therapeutic separation - we were in MC and dating. At this point, i suspected an ow, but he denied it, so i took a leap of faith. The beginning of our separation was very difficult. As the holidays approached, it became harder. We always had a big xmas eve dinner at our house and that year, he decided to do it, despite me not living there. That was very hurtful. A few days after xmas, he told me he was going away to Vermont with his cousin who was visiting for New Years. I did not believe this - i thought he was with ow. He left on a Thursday - i called him about 20 times that day - his cell phone was off. The next day was New Years Eve and i had plans to go to a bar with a group of friends. He did call me on Friday - we spoke. I went out that night and it was very hard, b/c i really didn't want to be there. At midnight, after the ball dropped, i started to cry and went outside, where i tried to call my H - his phone was off. This of course made it worse. At that time, one the guys in the group came outside and asked what was wrong. I told him. We talked a bit that night, about my sitch. He gave me his # and told me to call him if i ever wanted to talk (he and his fiancee had broken up a few weeks before). The next morning my H called me and said he didn't want us to be apart anymore. So, he wanted to really work on the M. I was still suspicious of his R with this other woman and i was waiting for the other shoe to drop. I did talk to this other guy once or twice after that. Then, one weekend, my friend (from New Years Eve) was planning a dinner for her fiancee's b-day. It was the same night (friday) that my H and I had a date planned. I asked my H if we could re-schedule - he said okay. Then, i changed my mind and decided it wasn't worth it. That same night (thursday), i went to dinner with my sisters in law (H's sister and H's brother's wife). At dinner, my friend called and said she was going to have people over on Saturday night, if i wanted to come by. I asked her if that guy was going to be there...she said she didn't know. I told her i would let her know. Unbeknownest to me, my sisters in law reported back to my H about my phone call, as they suspected i was having an A. My H asked me about it the next night (friday) - i told him it was nothing. The next day, my H called me and asked me if there was anything i wanted to tell him, like if i had been talking to someone on the phone. I told him yes - he flipped out and said he was D me. He had paid someone to get my cell phone records and saw the calls on my phone to this guy. After a very rough week or two, we worked things out, and he decided he wanted to give us a chance. He had stopped going to C with me, but then decided to go back. We were dating, had gone away a few times, and had a trip planned for June, at which time we were going to start trying to have a family. Things seemed good between us. We decided i would move home. The day i moved home, he started acting weird and said he didn't know what was wrong. He moved out about a week later. A few weeks after that, he told me that he hadn't forgiven me for what i did. He said he felt like fool - that i had been lying to him for weeks, while we sat in C, with me crying saying i wanted another chance. He says this is the reason that we can't reconcile b/c he can't forgive me. Now, i understand how he is hurt by this. And i am sure he suspects more happened than what did (there was NO physical interaction b/w us at all). He says the worst part was the fact that i sat in C with him, while i was making plans to see this other guy (not exactly the truth, but okay) and that i tried to break plans with him, and then was so brazen as to talk about it in front of his sister. And i totally understand this...i tried to put myself in his sitch and i would be hurt too. I get frustrated b/c i really don't think it is something to end a M over. And, of course, i think that he is just blaming me in order to take the focus off himself for what he did/is doing. I guess i don't understand how he was able to put it behind us right after it happened. He said he does try to forget it, but he can't put it behind us. So, that's the story. It was longer than i thought - sorry. I am not so naive as to really believe this is the only reason for the D. I just don't know why he didn't do it a year ago, right after it happened.
Imdi - That's such a completely bogus excuse on his part (gee - you TALKED to a guy? For 2 weeks? While h was ignoring you? DUH!).
It really makes me wonder if this is more a case of projection. Did you ever figure out if H actually had something going on with OW? This behavior just seems like the spouse who actually cheated, but projects onto the other spouse by accusing THEM of being the one cheating. It wouldn't surprise me if you found out he had had an affair, and that his guilt over the lie is keeping him from reconciling.
Hi GH- Thanks for your response. You bring up a good point. There are times when I wonder if my H feels the sex is just sex. But, last night, he commented on how nice it was to feel so close to me, and that he needed me. He asked me if i was glad that i went to the house and i told him yes. I remember something he said to me a while ago. Intimacy had always been an issue for us - i was very rejecting of him, for various reasons that i won't get into. And one day, while talking about this, he said that he always wanted to be with me b/c it helped him to feel close to me, that it wasn't just about the sex. So, i guess if i think about that, then now this is more about ML. It just seemed like last night, we felt especially close to each other and it didn't feel like it was just an act. And i think the fact that he wanted me to stay there was significant - this has only come up one other time in the past 6 or 7 months. So, i am not sure what to think or feel. I chose to leave last night b/c i knew that if i stayed, i would think it meant more than it possibly did, and i couldn't do that to myself. So, i guess i will see what happens today. I just hope that he understands how much this closeness means to me...and i hope it means as much to him. Have i mentioned how much i hate this?
Thanks for posting Ellie. I know that it is bogus. I guess the point he is trying to make is that it doesn't make any sense why i would have chosen to be friends with someone who was interested in me, and who thought i was interested in him (there is more to the story, about things the other guy said and did that indicated he was interested in more than just a friendship and that he thought i was too) at a time when we were trying to put our M back together. And, he's right. He even said he wouldn't have been surprised if i had done it the year before i moved out when he was being a real jerk - he thinks that would have made more sense to him. I think what is significant for him is that he sees this episode as another thing i did to put a wedge b/w us...that i engage in self-destructive behavior (again, more to it - i won't get into it), but he is right in a way. I spent a lot of time pushing him away, and he feels this was another way to push him away. I think he believes more happened - he even referred to the guy last night as my boyfriend. I think it is the lying that bothers him the most. I do know that he could be projecting - believe me, my C and i have discussed this. I do believe that there has been someone else, and that he goes back and forth b/w us. I think that she gave him an ultimatum, and he chose her. I just wish he wasn't so anxious to throw us away.
Last night, i told him i was sorry that he chooses to define our R by that one incident, instead of focusing on a lot of the good things, and that i believed he only thinks about the negatives. He said he didn't, but who knows.
I just don't know where to go from here...what do i do?
Imdi, Now that I have read your post and understand your situation a little clearer, I have to agree with klm. I do think your H. may be projecting here. At the very least, he is using your friendship w/the other guy as an excuse to not reconcile. Maybe he did have an A. or maybe he didn’t before and during your first separation; you may never find out either way. But I have to be honest and say that it doesn’t make sense to say he wants you to pay for what you did. I mean, what did you do? You talked to a guy about your problems during a separation from your H. I see nothing wrong with what you did. I know it is so hard; there is no reasoning with these WAH’s, and it is so frustrating because they will say very irrational things to avoid reconciling, even when their actions speak so differently. I wish I had better advice, Imdi, but as you know I’m also dealing with a stranger WAH encounter and I just don’t know what to make of any of it! Don’t get discouraged. Keep the topic off of your R. and reconciling if you speak to him today. No pressure. Meanwhile, try to get in the mindset again that you CAN be ok without him, Imdi. I know that you hope for your R. to work out, but if it doesn’t in the end, you WILL be all right. This is what I am trying to tell myself just to get through the day. I’ll check back with you soon.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
I think our WASs find something, anything to use as an excuse against us. My H is an expert at twisting things around so that when he's done something wrong I'm still somehow the bad guy. For my part I've realized that I need to stop protecting him--very hard for me as I'm the oldest and that's what I do best.
I know you've gone back and forth on the ML issue with your H. Somehow I doubt your H had you come over just to have sex. That said, you can't let yourself read too much into this. Your H is confused and while he might want to come back it's still too overwhelming for him.
I must say I'm very jealous. Now that my H has decided we need to move forward with a D and wants a separation agreement I'm sure he's read that we have to be apart for at least a year with not a single incident of cohabitation or of sex before we can file. Which means I'm cut off .
Oh, and as if you didn't already know, I hate this too.
Thanks hope and SS- It is very hard, trying to figure out what is going on in my H's head. B/c that does affect my actions, whether i want it to or not. I just wish there was an easy answer. The other night, in one of my crying fits, i said that i would do anything to just spend one more night with my H, in our bed, so that i can wake up next to him. That almost happened last night. I try to believe that there is no ow, but i know better. I honestly feel that if there was no ow, my H would definitely be making plans to reconcile with me. I wish that he could realize what he is doing. I know it shouldn't matter. And most of the time i do believe that i will be okay if we do D. But, last night, was the first time he actually said that we would never have contact again if we were to D. That was a hard thing to swallow. I know some of the things i said were anti-DBing. I was very careful not to tell him that he was wrong...i told him that i understood what he was saying and that i respected his feelings and position on things. It was a civil conversation. Does he even realize how asking me to come there last night, and ML, is so confusing? I don't know, maybe he doesn't. I was really touched by his offer to have me stay there...it was just so nice the way he said it...and i have to believe that it was genuine...he knew that it was hard for me, so he was trying to offer me some comfort. I don't believe that he could fake our interactions last night...there was just something different about it. I know that i have to focus on myself...and i do try. Its just hard. I am dreading this weekend..no plans again, and i am not looking forward to sitting in my room. Maybe something will come up.
I do have an appointment to see a "spiritual medium" in 2 weeks. I have seen her in a public forum, and she is pretty good, plus she predicted my cousin's accident. So, i am looking forward to that, although i am nervous about it...we'll see.
Thanks you guys for taking the time to read and respond. I don't know what i would do without you! Hugs to everyone!
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