Quote: So where does that leave us? I have liked your "overquoting" to this point, but what does this one mean? She is going to bolt after this because it's too much to try and fix her damage?
It means the marriage in all likelihood was not awful prior to the affair, even for your W; so don't let her convince you in this. She's just rewriting your past to make her case plausible - that she had to find an outlet in an affair because the M was awful. IT WAS NOT. Therefore, it's not your fault, although you could have and still can be a better spouse. Your W is trying to escape the unpleasant reality; but you're the one who can think straight now, and maintain your belief in your M and that there was nothing truly unsolvable in it. And still there isn't. Unfortunately, the job is up to you now. The again, you're the one with the brain
To get through the darkest period of the night, act as if it is already morning.
The Talmud
Quote: It doesn't necessarily mean that person is going to bolt, that's an over-generalization IMHO.
They are not nesessarily going to bolt although it does happen at least half of the time. The point is, it's not the betrayaed partner's fault. Unless s/he was an addict, violent one or was screwing around, collapse of the M is most likely to be caused by the affair itself, even if it started innocently (or especially if it started innocently), than by the spouse's shortcomings.
SO stop blaming yourself in case you are doing this; and look at it this way: it's good that there're some tangible things that you can blame yourself for. It might just as well be the case where there's absolutely nothing wrong with the spouse; done, said or felt, and yet s/he was betrayed and desperately look for flaws within that don't even exist.
To get through the darkest period of the night, act as if it is already morning.
The Talmud
Now we are getting into statistics that are at odds. The statistics I have read over and over again say that only about 1/4 of marriages where there is an affair by one of the spouses ends in divorce. You say it's over half. I suppose there are all kinds of studies out there that say all kinds of things. That low number I have seen quoted in a lot of different places so I choose to believe it. Do you subscribe to the DB principals?
If the number is low it's all for the best (although, honestly, look at the forum boards: many people are struggling with their spouse's intention to at least separate). But it's not important.
What is important, and I'd really like you to give it a thought, is that it backfires to fear a divorce. Fear is a powerful emotion, and mind is a powerful tool: whatever we fear, we attract. If we keep thinking about the worst outcome (and we will if we fear it), we contribute to making it happen. Moreover, state of being paralized by fear isn't really conducive to implementing DB advice.
I know it from my own experience: is you fear, you are paralized and you can't be yourself, but rather appear pathetic and clingy. And I read it again and again that not to fear a breakup is a goow way to save a relationship.
To get through the darkest period of the night, act as if it is already morning.
The Talmud
Ok, framed like that, I appreciate what you are getting at. I agree, if you are motivated by fear, then you most likely will fail at whatever you seek to attain. Of course, fear can also be healthy if it merely keeps you safe from what may harm you. You just can't be ruled by it. Am I afraid of divorce? Sure I am. Would I like not to be? I guess. That is all part of detachment, moving on, etc. Eventually we want to get to a place where we are complete within ourselves and we do not need our WAS to fill a hole in us. Sadly, for many of us, it's been so many years of them playing that part in our lives that it may talk longer than we'd like to fill it ourselves. Fear sucks. I was full of it last night and it made me do and say some things I did not like. Fear still has a bit of a hold on me now, but I am working to overcome it. They say sometimes you only get past a fear by facing it head on. Well, that business card I found for a divorce lawyer in my kitchen did a pretty good job of starting me down that road.
Yes, fear, the most base of emotions. I guess that's what we are all trying to overcome is the fear of what "might" be. This is exactly where emotional detachment comes in, if we are not affected by what our spouse does, says, acts, then obviously we are not afraid of what might be. Interesting concepts, in theory. Put into practice, it takes a lot of fortitude.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Well, I had a C session today. It was supposed to be all about me, but in light of last night's big R talk, it ended up being all about the M. I think that was good though because my C got to the DB ideals quite on her own. Get this, from a woman who has NO idea what DB is. She told me that it sounds like I need to stop talking about the R with my W, stop focusing on the OM (stop snooping), be nice but basically put the marriage on hold for now in my head and heart. I should treat my W as a friendly roommate and give things time. She also said to work on myself as the more I have other things going on besides W and the kids, and the more I take care of me, the more attractive I become. Does that sound familiar? I have gone into DB a little with her in the past, but never called it by name. I even admitted to C today that I was unsure if she even supported my way of handling this situation. Obviously she does. It was good to hear someone live, in person, say those things to me. I still don't feel 100%. W stayed home tonight so that makes things easier. I know with the Superbowl coming up this weekend and it being on Sunday night (her night with the OM) I am sure to get a bit worked up. We have always watched the game together. I don't know what her plans are but I am going to try to be prepared. If she goes, then I guess me and the boys will have one HELL of a Superbowl party...as much as a heart broken 35 year old and his 5 & 3 year old sons can...
Look for a new thread tomorrow. The chains are a comin'
So now Beth "moves on"... I have a question for you all. Where are the success stories among us. Frank, Vince, Tim... I am watching these people move on, yes, stronger for the experience and DB is responsible for a lot of it, but is Rob the only one who seems like he's actually saved his marriage here? I have to admit to being a little unnerved by the number of people I have followed for the past month that are moving forward with a D. Am I missing something? I mean, these are people I respect, admire, like, and most of all that DB'd to the best of their ability and still... Please tell me why I should not be thinking this. I believe in these concepts but I am starting to wonder if it's only for what they bring me, not their ability to save my marriage.
A couple of things here. Number one, you will NOT be watching the Super Bowl alone....I'll be watching it as the same time as you and as long as you root for dem Steelers, you and I can remain friendly
Secondly, and please do not take this the wrong way because it is important that your C is seeing it this way, but I almost had a chuckle when you mentioned that your C is basically espousing the views stated here. You can start forwarding those checks to us right now! Better yet, she should be paying YOU! In all seriousness though, I think that is a major thing. Even your C has told you that these are the things you need to do for the best possible chance to save your M. Is it a guarantee...absolutely not, nothing is guaranteed. But, will it give you the best chance to a) further yourself and b) save your M in the process? Indeed. I have come to accept that validation and detachment are ESSENTIAL in this process. It is essential that you do not dismiss your W's feelings, no matter how alien they are to you...simply because she is a person, with real feelings and emotions. The more you invalidate them, no matter how alien, the more you act like your "old" self and push her away. I swear, I honestly wish I knew about these princples over a year ago. I've viewed all the scenarios from that time and had I recognized validation, I would almost guarantee that things would be a lot different. Now recognize something else, and be honest with yourself, how long have you not validated her feelings? I would have to guess that it might have been a long time and, guess what, you've only been at this for less than a month. I thought I read somewhere that as a general rule, it will take approx. 1 month, per each year of marriage to "fix the past" as it were. Maybe I read this in a post, but I swear I saw it in one of the DB books. Now put that into perspective. You have to make these changes for you, they must be genuine or your W will not see them as changes but only more of the same manipulation and form of control. Please, do not abandon these principles, I think they are the true key to saving our M's. Have you read Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus? If not, I would place that high on the reading list. Also, and I know I've said this before, but the Lundberg book is fantastic companion reading. The views in both of these books is generally the same....validate. Empathize, understand, love and compassion.
As for my sitch, I am honestly flattered that you believe that I have the best chance of saving it. The truth is, I really don't know that. I believe my W has told herself that this R is important and that without it she would be truly unhappy. She does love me very much and couldn't logically see herself moving on. But, that does nothing to erase the feelings she has for OM and, this is my biggest fear, without her resolving those in whatever way that she must, she may never fully "be" here. If she choses to stay here out of whatever it is she is feeling, she will always wonder "but, what if." That is very scary to me, in fact I think about it a lot. I honestly believe she has made the decision out of fear of losing, fear of the unknown, rather than out of true choice. I don't want to go on the path here and find out three months from now that, oh, guess what, I really DO want to find out what the other life is like. I guess I shouldn't dwell on it, because I came "back" in that scenario (made the choice that this is what I wanted and eventually, the heart followed), but I wonder if she can see it that way. Especially since I know that she doesn't give up on feelings very easily...we were talking one night about love and etc., and she was talking about her first love...she was thirteen at the time. Here, as it turns out, he was a very distant relative of hers. Her father absolutely forbid them to see each other. Do you know, she still harbors strong feelings for this guy? This story is very anecdotal because it proves to me that feelings such as she, and the other WAS have at this moment, must run a natural course. They cannot be coerced, chided or guilted into coming back. The decision must be of their own free will. If your W came to you today and said that she wanted all of this, etc., would you be convinced that it was over?
Sorry for the extremely long post, and I don't mean it to be negative in the least. I believe in what we are doing, truly. I think it is the only chance that, if possible, we can save our M's and ensure that they last! Please do not give up hope GH....you and I are on a long, twisted path...eventually it will lead to enlightment, it may just take a few strange twists along the way.
....and GO STEELERS!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
and as long as you root for dem Steelers, you and I can remain friendly 