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#633980 01/31/06 05:48 PM
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Tim,
Why didn't you ask her if she was enjoying it and why or why not? Why guess as to what was going through her head?

I'm thinking that maybe she prefers a lighter or stronger touch. Maybe she's flat out uncomfortable, at this point, with that much physical touch. Whatever it was, it would have been good to inquire, kwim?

Otherwise, I see the dynamic developing whereby she just lays there and doesn't know what to do and waits to have things "done" to her that she will supposedly enjoy at some point in time when she gains some libido. No wonder she was sighing frustratedly.

I think opening the lines of communication more may engage her in the process..encourage her to participate in some fashion. I think she's nervous about you expecting more because she's not doing anything!
Perhaps you could caress her for a while and then ask if she would rub your back or shoulders, for example. This would be clear language that lets her know that you are not wanting a squeezy bits rub and it also gets her *actively* involved in the process of developing the EC. It will also give you an opportunity to praise what she does do and build from those small successes.

Just some thoughts that I had when reading your update...

The small groups thing sounds good. I think anything done together will help build the EC, don't you?

#633981 01/31/06 06:15 PM
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Tim,

Got a question for you. If you felt like she was expecting that things were supposed to get hot n'heavy regardless....why didn't you just tell her to "relax, all I want to do is just cuddle with you.....nothing more....really, I'm just enjoying this time with you."?

GEL


Well behaved women rarely ever make history!
#633982 01/31/06 06:38 PM
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GEL: I did. More than once.

(sigh...) You're right, of course, HP. Far from being a promising start on progress, I now see that I utterly mishandled the whole situation. Instead of the act of differentiation I thought I was having, I now realize it was an act of deepest fusion. As Schnarch has said, it's never too late to sell yourself out. I really have let things slide far too long - I no longer even have a handle on where to begin. Back to working on myself first, that's what's needed. Hopefully I can rise above the level of relationship dunce. And of course further discussions with her, but on a different tack. Still, last night won't be a total waste if it can lead to further understanding on both our parts.

One thing I have resolved to do is to listen carefully when she talks, looking for opportunities to validate her. I've begun to realize I do far too little of this, and that's undoubtedly a large part of the problem.


TimV2.0

Me: 53
Her: 56
D26 (at home)
S23 (at home)
S18 (at home)

Formerly Tim47...
#633983 01/31/06 06:46 PM
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Aw Tim, it was a great start, don't get down on yourself.

I think that you had a niggling voice in your brain trying to figure out what was 'off' about the whole event and, oftentimes, others can see it right off the bat. We all do that.

Do not talk it to death again tonight. Just wipe the slate clean (in your mind) and try again.


#633984 01/31/06 07:16 PM
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No, HP, I don't think I can get off the hook that easily here. It's not so much that I'm down on myself, it's more like I'm facing the very real possibility that things have gotten a LOT worse than I thought they were, and I basically let it happen. Yeah, I know, it takes two, but I did have it within my power to act a lot sooner than this, and in fact I had made a vow (and stated it to W) at least a year ago that I would NOT be going back on auto-pilot, yet that's exactly what I've done. With predictable results.

Now, I'm not going to spend any time beating myself up over it, that would be pointless. But this WILL cause me to do a more serious job of introspection than I might have been disposed to previously. Indeed, I was in part playing the observer last night, and trying to figure out what wasn't working and why, and even had some educated guesses, but didn't feel confident enough to act on it. Or maybe I was just enjoying the physical proximity so much I didn't want to disturb it, even if I was the "only one there". Acts of desperation - yuck! The truth is, what I'm hoping for is to get to a point where we can have these times of closeness together, where we would just lie there and enjoy each other on many levels. IOW we could use these times to talk about whatever, just have a nice pillow-talk session if we wanted, or experiment with massage, or whatever, but the point is we'd be focussing on each other. Again, I'm describing the "ideal state", without any clue as to how to begin working towards it. I guess I'm hoping that if I can communicate that "ideal state" properly, she'll want it too, and we can find the path somehow. Again, that sounds like fusion, I think - I really have to get back to reading up on this stuff, and re-learn a lot of what I've forgotten...


TimV2.0

Me: 53
Her: 56
D26 (at home)
S23 (at home)
S18 (at home)

Formerly Tim47...
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