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Cemar

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It's almost like some people are wired backwards and physical touch makes them UNCOMFORTABLE.

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Yes Cemar we are all wired DIFFERENTLY.

I could be sitting here saying some people are wired backwards because sitting around shooting the breeze about life the universe and everything makes them UNCOMFORTABLE. Yes they are, and I have to face the fact that my H is one of them, he prefers to DO something than talk about stuff.

My two children are wired differently. My S almost from the moment he was born was more comfortable left in his cot or pram than cuddled up unless he was nursing. I could not believe that a newborn baby would not prefer to be snuggled up to me than left on his own but he did. My D4 cannot exist unless she is wrapped around someone, and to be perfectly honest much as I love physical touch the level to which she takes it CAN be irritating.

You are different from your W, Cemar. You just have to face it, the level to which you require physical touch is probably quite irritating to her. And it is NOT about generalising between men and women. I was driven mad in the early days by the way my H's eyes would glaze over in the middle of a discussion and then he would disappear for a cigarette, before going off to do something else. It is only since I have stopped pursuing him for this type of interaction that slowly we are starting to spend more time chatting.

You have one big problem I don't though Cemar, I was able (and still am able) to get my chat fix elsewhere! But I sure would prefer to be getting it with my SO. And yes I see couples in their 50s or so that are interacting in that way and I am envious. H and I have no problem sitting snuggled on the sofa but I could kill for a decent conversation with him now and again.


take care

Fran

For those of you telling MrScared that his wife is being completely selfish, and dillusional, what a shame! Did you get married to have a sex partner for the rest of your lives or to spend the rest of your life with your best friend, in good times and bad, sickness and health?


By the way, her question is very understandable to me. She's not asking you in the literal sense. She's asking if she has any value to you other than a sex partner. She's crying out to you for love, yes, the unconditional kind.

Dori, I disagree with that line of thinking and stand behind the comments that what his W is doing is SELFISH.
No, I did not M my H to be my best friend. I have friends. I M him to be my HUSBAND (life-long mate/lover). When you take away the Lover part, you take away the H part. That is just my take on it of course.
I WANT/NEED my H to be a LOVER just like many other people on this board state. There is nothing selfish with that expectation, but there is something selfish about withholding that expectation.
The whole point about paralysis is just moot. That has nothing to do with going into a M and then Choosing to not act M anymore. M is more than just "stay with me the rest of your life no matter how I act towards you" (unconditional love). Commitment implies (to me) that both people are continually working to make the M better so that neither person feels like there needs are being ignored. Even people who are in wheelchairs have adjusted to meet some of their partners sexual needs if and when they want to and have that capability. People can get quite creative in order to show that the other person is IMPORTANT to them. It's much more of a shame that perfectly healthy people are not willing to make the same effort with their own S.

One thing that amazes me, is that nobody has mentioned Christopher Reeve on this thread! A few years ago, he was being interviewed by Barbara Walters, and she asked him how his wife was dealing with having no sex life. Her assumption was that, since he was completely paralyzed, and on a respirator, that sex was impossible for them. He quickly set her straight, and said that he and his wife had a "very satisfying" sex life indeed. So what I take from that, is that there is NO physical infirmity that cannot be overcome given love and a desire to please one's mate...

Great point Tim.
I think someone else (maybe Lil?) brought up that movie Murderball too, and how the men in wheelchairs dealt with some of the sexual issues. Haven't seen the movie myself though.

Thanks for that comment Tim, that is a very good point, one that I have tried to make often, but with no success. As long as a couple is committed to each other, creative and willing to put their spouces needs before their own, I don't see any hurdle that cannot be overcome. Even stuck in a wheel chair, that just created a different challenge, but there are still things that can happen.

I tell my wife all the time that there is soooooo much more that we can do, if we just stay caring and creative. It doesn't have to all be intercourse. Sometimes it may be cuddling on the couch, sometimes it may be showering together, or sleeping naked together (to pull from another discussion). Heck, I'd be ecstatic to sit in church and have my neck rubbed like I see other couples do, like CeMar mentioned. I"D LOVE THAT! But to my wife "that is all sex" in her mind.

To me, it's all about attitude and love towards one another. My wife sees things very differntly. In her mind, everyone has likes and dislikes. I don't like brocolli and there is nothing she could do to cook it to make it taste good. I just don't like it period, so I don't eat it. She just doesn't like sex, or anything connected to it. She doesn't try to get me to eat something I don't like, yet why do I keep trying to get her to do something she doesn't like. That's ME being selfish by trying to have her do something she's not interested in... To her, there is no problem.. it's simply a dislike.

In addition, she said I need to stop trying to make her into someone who enjoys sex. Since it is not something she is into, it is unfair of me to push. Her example is this.. She could say she wishes that she married someone that could sing, play the piano with the family and play soccer with her. I am ABSOLUTELY none of those things. So it would be unfair of her to demand that I become like that when it is an impossible request. That is just not fair to me to make those demands. Therefor, it is unfair for me to expect her to be sexual, or to allow any touch, when that is just not her.

My take on that is this: What if when we were first married, I DID sing, what if I played the piano as a way to impress her while dating, and I used to play soccer all the time and then one day I just CHOSE to not do those things anymore, regardless of my wife's feelings. How would that come across? In our early years of marriage, my wife was VERY sexual, very into touching, loved showers together, loved pleasing me whenever possible, and then one day... whoosh.. it was gone and has been gone for 5 years now. So I just don't get her arguments. These are conscous decisions made to no longer do things. If she had been like this while dating, that would be one thing... But to get married with one personality and then switch all the while expecting uncoditional love from your spouse, just seems to be a messed up way of doing things.

Oh, and to answer another question... My wife and I do not live near family. Her family is all in another state. So her point was that she could not be a single mother in a place with no family resources, so she'd be moving back home to be around resources there, and that is in another state... a loooong way from here.

Do you still have a copy of your wedding vows?

If you do, wait until the next time she brings up the singing/piano-playing analogy, then pull out the vows and ask her to show you where they mention singing or piano-playing. Then point to the part about being friends and lovers, til death do you part.

Some things are fundamental to a marriage, some aren't.

Hmm...sex and broccoli.
Not quite comparable
But really, so you don't like broccoli, you don't eat it. She can still eat it. It does not effect her ability to have her broccoli "need" met.
See where this is headed...she does not like sex, well, that directly effects your ability to have your sex needs met.
Have you asked her point blank what she expects you to do with your need for sex/intimacy/affection?
Is the assumption you are to go without it your whole life because she doesn't like it?? And there in lies the selfishness.

Hmmm.... I'm kinda out of practice with this stuff, but mraintgettinany, your sitch is reminding me with uncanny precision of a section in Passionate Marriage. Their complaint was exactly the same - the wife's position was: "I'm entitled to not want sex, and there's nothing you can do about it - you can't force me to have sex when I don't want to." The good Doctor's position (in helping the H), was, "Okay, that's true, you're entitled to your preference, but then your husband is entitled to have the sex life he wants, too... so what you're saying is you don't want to be married any more". Long and short, her initial position was that she DID want to be married, but she also did NOT want sex. Sound familiar?

The punch line was... she DID like sex. A LOT! She liked it dirty. But she didn't want to be that intimate with her husband - the prospect scared her to death, because of what he might find OUT about her - she'd have to be vulnerable, and couldn't handle that.

Just perhaps a different perspective on the question. Please don't read too much into it - it's late, and as I said, I'm out of practice, so I could very easily be dead wrong, but the similarity did seem uncanny to me...

The punch line was... she DID like sex. A LOT! She liked it dirty. But she didn't want to be that intimate with her husband - the prospect scared her to death, because of what he might find OUT about her - she'd have to be vulnerable, and couldn't handle that.

Wow. I think that sums up my H pretty much. He has a very hard time being vulnerable but I also know he likes sex so there is a conflict in his head most of the time.