And by the way, NYS, in so fewer words, you hit right on what I was trying to get at.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Rob, well, the good news (or bad depending) is that I am at work and it's slow so I'm just sitting here waiting...bad I know.
Yes, that makes sense. I just talked to her again (my call). I just told her I hope she feels better. She was short, and kinda said something like "is that all?". The she said she was fine and said goodbye. The edge was still there for sure. Also, she was not home either. Anyway, I am not going to dwell on that. I am not going to bring it up if at all possible.
Actually, I have turned my reading to depression and along with WAW and MLC, really more than those, she fits the depression mold exactly. She sleeps all the time (never used to at all), she doesn't eat much, she's sad all the time, this thing between us, weight loss, behavior changes, thinking about life not worth living, etc. I am really worried that she needs professional help but I don't know how to tell her that since everything I tell her is perceived as an attempt to "fix" us. Even if she got the help and then realized that with the OM was where she needed to be, it would be better than this.
What I think is validating is often just trying not to sound upset. Not the same thing.
Yeah... that's a kinda strange definition of "validate" "Trying not to sound upset" would be more like under the heading of "Acting as if", right?
A great book to learn how to better listen and validate is "I Don't Have To Make Everything OK".
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but I don't know how to tell her that since everything I tell her is perceived as an attempt to "fix" us.
OK, look... do grab a copy of that book and put it into practice. When you become validative, she won't see it as you trying to "fix", because it's going to change how you approach her. It's going to teach you how to aid her, not fix her, aid her in exploring her own self and coming up with her own answers. You're going to find that the more you learn to let go... the more you gain.
I really echo NYS's comments here. I've found that over the past couple of weeks, the more I let go, it does appear to have an effect on her moods. While not fully blown emotional detachment, I've told her that I understand what she is going through, that I would be here for her no matter what and that these are things she has to come to grips with on her own. Hard to describe, when I talk to her about things, I'm more "open ended", but reassuring.
The main idea here is that no matter what you say, what you do or how you feel, it can never change what she is going through. She must come to decisions about these things on her own without your influence. As hard as that is to put into practice, it really is the way it has to be. The more you fail to do that, the deeper into depression she will fall because she is unable to live up to expectations.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Thanks again you two. I will put that book at the top of my list NYS!
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I did a search on amazon for the book and I did not find it. Possibly another title? Author? Thanks.
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Yea, I can tell just from the brief conversation we have had today that she is feeling pressured and not at all helped by what I have said and done, even though it was minimal.
I think I am going to take her up on her advice that I go out tonight to a basketball game and try to focus on something else for a change.
I am just so numb right now. Is that kinda like a stage you get to? I have been feeling anger, pain, desperation, frustration, and now this dull numbness that permeates everything.
It is a really horrible way to feel, kinda like no matter what happens, I will still feel this way.
NYS, if you can get more info on that book, i think it would be a great read! Thanks
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Sorry to hear what you went through last nite TMU! I was also locked out of my thread and had to start a new one! What timing! I wish I could say something positive and helpful, but I really am numb right now! I really do appreciate your strength and wish I could steal some!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
OMG, Me? I have no f#%#ing strength. I am only strong because I have not had to face my ultimate fears in all this. I feel totally weak right now and the slightest thing will tip the balance to "I don't give a damn anymore". I don't want that to happen because as much as we say we don't control them, or the situation, we do control some of it in-so-much-as if we say to them "ok, have it your way. I am filing for divorce, please sign on the dotted line." it may very well be the death nail in our marriages. I am so totally messed up right now. I have never felt my screen name applied so well. I pray (something REALLY new for me) that we get through this intact. You know no matter what, I will try to be here for you and anyone else who asks.
Yea, I can tell just from the brief conversation we have had today that she is feeling pressured and not at all helped by what I have said and done, even though it was minimal.
It's your perception that it was minimal. Even if it was, she can magnify it, and in depression, that's what people do, magnify perceived negatives, discount positives.
I think I am going to take her up on her advice that I go out tonight to a basketball game and try to focus on something else for a change.
Good idea.
I am just so numb right now. Is that kinda like a stage you get to? I have been feeling anger, pain, desperation, frustration, and now this dull numbness that permeates everything.
You're on the road to emotional exhaustion. Detachment is key is relieving that. I know all this requires tremendous effort, yet you're the only one that can truly help yourself. I've been there! So I can tell you, as tremendous the effort is to get there, that's how tremendous the payoff is.
Quote: It's your perception that it was minimal. Even if it was, she can magnify it, and in depression, that's what people do, magnify perceived negatives, discount positives.
Well said. I agree. I was really trying to convey that I understood MY words to her were few but that she was taking it hard. I know what I did/said in the phone calls was not totally correct and that she may perceive it much worse than slightly incorrect. Anyway, I am not in the guessing game business today so I will try to only react to clear communication from her. It's all I can do right now.
Oh, and thanks for the link to the book. I will pick it up ASAP!
"Trying not to sound upset" would be more like under the heading of "Acting as if", right?
Amazing what some people think.