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Lots and lots of positives here!! It is super that you are able to pull yourself out of your own bummed out mood and reach out to H when he needs. That is really paying attention and really making strides!!

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Miracles happen, slowly at times...

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That is very true, and these are the ones that mean the most too.

Congrats on the anniversary! I hope you had a great night out with H!! Maybe an even better night when you got home?

Well, didn't make it to the thrift store last night. Had to go pick up work...blah, blah, blah...maybe I can sneak out tonight. *crossing fingers*

Ugh. I'm really hating myself right now. Had a nice morning, worked out and felt great--went with H. Nice day at work. Then, the evening blues kicked in. H actually came home for dinner, then had to go back to work. I was normal, a little subdued, but normal during dinner. I brought up the subject of his parents, and he asked me to not talk about it...I did stop...I was sad so started to clean up, do other things, he came in and started helping and I snapped at him, he was really trying to cheer me up. I felt sad so I apologized about snapping (before this would have been a pissy fight). I said that I was just anxious about the whole thing, and didn't need to take it out on him.

We had a lot of laughs after that, he was teasing me, it was great. Then, a wave of discomfort came again, when I asked whether he has shared our hardship with other friends (he asked me if I had, and I told him the 1 friend I did...not to share what I said so much as out of respect for him that I talked about US to a mutual friend that he will see again, and he deserves to know--I feel it's a basic respect). He denied telling friends...then admitted to telling 1 here. I KNOW for a FACT he told one of his good friends, and he denied (I didn't flat out ask him). He lied so cooly. That really freaked me out. It's a small thing, but it just shattered my trust again....weird, I know. Then, I couldn't help it, I blurted out and asked if he had other friends that he talked to on the other phone, he said no, I asked if he meant it and looked in his eyes, he said no again. Then he said, "you just don't trust me, do you." I said "I do" but it was obvious that I didn't mean it. He just left, he was sad. I was too.

I feel like I ruined a good week. I feel like I pushed something that might not have been necessary. You know, most of the day, I push it down, out of my mind, I try really hard to stop thinking about dumb things that I think were the last things that I would have to be concerned about in my M. How it's sad it's not something or someone I totally trust. It's small, I know, and things that we did to each other during our M and healing over the last few months. I feel that we've really come far, and broke through this last week, so I should PUT ALL THAT AWAY. It doesn't matter.

The funny thing is, I'm calm. I do trust him, I have moments of doubt. Most of the time they're kept in, sometimes they come out. I feel so bad. Then, I feel like this just happened 5 days ago, and I asked questions that seemed like I mistrusted him just a few times in that time, over something fairly weird and concerning (a secret phone??!!). I think I'm allowed that. I don't argue, ask him to stop using it, ask to see it, or even the number. I just ask about his use of it--last time I asked about it was Monday...I guess he doesn't have to tell me that either....this is all so stupid, so idiotic.

I feel bummed now during this eggshell phase....like I can't do something totally simple and appropriate like asking about a major lie without feeling like I'm gonna set this whole thing back to square 1.

Maybe I'm making this into too big of a deal. I have to spend tonight really thinking about this, how I feel, what the consequences are to the various outcomes in my head, listen to my gut, and then just put it away for a LONG time. I know I've said this on this BB before, but this time for real.

Not to toot my horn, but I feel that I've really come around in "typical trigger" situations b/w us (like the fighting, snapping, controlling, understanding, etc). I know I'm not perfect....so I guess the next best thing is to realize, and change.

I don't think I'm gonna apologize for asking those questions. I changed how I would have typically act...that is enough. I won't say sorry for something that should be expected when he lied....he realizes that he has trust issues with me, testing me out, and I am too.

Asking more questions isn't getting me anywhere, same answer, and it may be the truth. Have to move forward now. Put this in the past. Figure it out later--just weird.

All I can do now is when he comes back home, pretend this didn't happen (his favorite game) and move on, and be comfortable as usual. Then I have to keep a streak of not asking this stuff for a while. I have to remember that he's really really trying too.

I hope we can get to the phase where I always look at him like a close friend, and not pangs of when I feel like I'm with a stranger.

Slowly....slowly. One step at a time. One success and one fumble at a time.

thought of one more thing....I read over my posts and it seems that I screw up in small ways each day. They are getting less and less...no more questions of assessing how he feels, nagging, etc.

I need to buckle down and really put 100% into each moment, so I don't have little episodes. I know it's probably something we can recover from, but I can imagine how much slower I make things go with these mishaps.

On the other hand, I noticed at dinner tonight and last night, that there were a million questions that popped into my head, that I just thought about, and just let go and not let come fly out of my mouth...like "did you call your parents" " What did they say? "Do they hate me" "How do you feel" "where is the phone, why" [insert a million ?s here]. I'm not even bothered by not asking, not like I have to squelch the desire (I used to be that way, but getting easier). Then it makes me sad, b/c I feel, is it that I'm changing for the better, or just losing the desire to openly talk to the person who is supposed to be my best friend.

Again, just blabbing.

You're learning, you're trying, you're working on it - but really, quit asking the questions, quit talking R almost daily, quit obsessing about all of it. It is not making anything better. Find an outlet for all those questions, do you have a dog or a cat? tell them all about it.

Thanks for the reality check, WCW, you're absolutely right. No pets (allergies). Strong suggested that I observe my down swings (accompanied by negative thoughts) and come up with a strategy to push myself out of it. End of the day and waking up in the morning are 2 big times. At times, it's a tremendous effort to put a smile on and move through it--much as it is for all of us (nothing special here). Might just be ME, and not the situation.

So, back to being solution-oriented, instead of just a ranting weirdo. Well, ranting here IS a good way for me to release/vent without taking it further--it's worked to calm me more that I would be. (THANK YOU ALL!). Second, when I wake in the morning, I'm gonna force myself to 5-10 min to myself (like meditating) where I orient myself in a positive direction. This might be a nice habit in the long run. Second, during the last hour of my day, and alone hours at home b/f H comes home, I think I'm gonna make an effort to find some positive R reading, uplifting reading to do. I find that if I just focus on tasks, I forget the sitch, but don't necessarily get myself into positive space.

There's more than not asking ?s and not talking R, H is REALLY in tune to my thoughts (can sense something wrong even when I'm cheerily quiet). I read somewhere on these BBs about the 4-minute rule...the first 4 minutes of your initial interaction with spouse sets the tone. This is true...my eye contact, smile, warmth are all things he picks up on, and reacts to. When I've tried to control these, I have to make sure I'm sincere in feelings, not just acting, b/c he picks up. But, when I do quickly shift into positive mode, it makes for a really nice evening.

Hmmm. More to work on. Always more.

Always (((((HUG)))))

It sounds like you are still on that emotional roller coaster. You need to decide whether or not to stay on for the ride, or get off.

I agree with WCW, stop the daily R talks. We BOTH know what efffect that has on our spouses, our M and our PMA.

AS far as the phone, the telling friends about your sitch, etc. I think you have every right to doubt and question. You say that you trust him, but you still doubt. You aren't wrong for that. He may not like it, but it was his lying that created this doubt and he has to deal with that.

I think the meditation and the reading to create positive feelings is a great idea. Anything that is going to help you recenter yourself. And venting here is the best and safest place to do so.

I hope today is a better day/night for you. One backslide shouldn't erase everything you worked so hard for up to now. Its a little set back, but it doesn't necessarily put you back at square 1. Don't beat yourself up. It happens to everyone.

~SE

Thanks for the pep talks, ladies!

This morning was nice. I woke up and remembered my tactic, and took a few minutes to really orient myself, in a positive way. Helped that H woke up and really reached out in an affectionate way. We had a great morning, and I hope to do the same tonight....

My hope for the day: a nice night, lots of laughs, no R talk, continue to reach out with affection. Just a light nite. No negative thoughts creeping in. H is really trying to move forward. He doesn't like to talk R, but I think that may come around. I have to give him his space. At least I hope so, b/c his method isn't perfect either...somehow we need to find a way to come somewhere in teh middle...talk about it and put it to rest. Hopefully that'll come when things get more comfortable. He mentioned before that his fears of talking were that it was a sad topic, he returns to past angers, he hates making me sad, he doesn't want me to get mad. So, if we can work on establishing a more comfortable R now, with more good days, then hopefully his comfort will be enough to open up, and mine will be such that I won't have to be incessant in the talk (more secure). I'm finding that I'm starting to feel calmer when we talk and don't have to ask a million questions and be panicked.

I guess I have to remember to be patient with H and myself. This takes a little time. Sometimes when you think about it, it seems that once things are explained, apologized for, it should snap back, but then you face it and realize it takes a lot longer than you thought.

It's been about 13 weeks since we first fell apart....geez, we've come far. I feel like this week especially has been a real "breakthrough" of sorts...and funny thing, I remember thinking in Nov, when things were really low, that Jan would be a good month and when the fever would break.

Now, time to focus on getting healthy again. There might be more ups and downs, but all part of making the healing last into a stronger bond than ever.

Hi always - Sorry it has taken me a few days to answer your question about re-framing. Time online has been a little scarce

It's been about 13 weeks since we first fell apart....geez, we've come far. I feel like this week especially has been a real "breakthrough" of sorts...and funny thing, I remember thinking in Nov, when things were really low, that Jan would be a good month and when the fever would break.

It is so important to acknowledge milestones, at least the positive ones. To some extent, looks like you had a 'goal' of some sort that by the end of Jan, the worst of the silences, suspicion and worry would be behind you. Seems like you may be moving into a phase of how to get more comfortable with each other. The R talks can be vexing. To this day, I feel like NG and I have not had a proper R talk, and I know it is not something he is ready for yet. We seem to have 5 minute 'opportunistic' segways when a related topic comes up for discussion

Helped that H woke up and really reached out in an affectionate way. We had a great morning, and I hope to do the same tonight....

Funny thing about expectations, and here is where the re-framing comes in. As long as you were un certain about how things will be this morning, you woke up, and did the 'meditation' which may have sent positive vibes around. In any case, as H turned to you, you were genuinely pleased because it was more than you had expected. If you 'hope' the evening will be the same, and it does not happen, might you not be disappointed? How about a 'goal' is for some hand holding and together time this evening, and to do this you, always, will do x, y z. Then if you do get a replay of the morning, you are happy your goal is achieved.

Often the end result is the same, but with being careful about how the event is framed, we can put ourselves in a position to feel better about it. Several days of feeling better about things can make a big difference to the bigger picture.

I'm finding that I'm starting to feel calmer when we talk and don't have to ask a million questions and be panicked.

I know, I used to be in the same place Over time, and lost of duct tape, it is possible to get over this phase of wanting to analyse every word, and needing to know every move and action. It is hard though. But pursuing R talks could be the single most detrimental thing in a recovering R, IMO. Let it happen naturally. Being happy despite the lack of R talks seems to be the common element in successfully recovering Rs.

Wishing you a fabulous weekend. Slowly

I 2nd what slowly said, with emphasis on pursuing R talks could be the single most detrimental thing in a recovering R. I've been telling you to stop that, now you get it from an expert!

Thanks so much for the great advice, Slowly (welcome back from vaca!) and WCW. You'd both be quite proud....no R talk yesterday or today. In fact, H brought something up about our past with respect to R, I just validated and didn't pursue, didn't add or anything. I acted comfortable, so he doesn't feel that I don't want to talk, but rather that it can be casual, comfortable and not end in a huge emotional outpouring. At least that's what I tried to do. Ya know, I didn't even *want* to take the talk further...I guess that's the best part!

Slowly, thanks for explaining re-framing. I definately understand what you're trying to say. I'm trying to have lower expectations about our time together...he is really stressed at work, so I'm taking this as an opportunity to practice a new skill/change--not to take his moods personally, not to put pressure on myself to make him happy, to let him be and just be supportive. This was a real trip for me in the past, and H was a really sour person, so it made for a bad combination. But, I'm trying to detach from his emotions...I find that when I do, he sees and tries to pull himself out of a funk, forces him to talk openly and non-emotionally about his day, and just put it away. So it's better for both of us.

With regard to expectations...the only ones I have are for me. this week, I've really lost the urge to find his feelings, his progress, measure our actions together and see if we're getting better. I'm trying to take this time to refocus on me, again. It's easy to lose the focus b/c we're trained to look for results of our actions. Now, I'm trying to make sure that I remember all the actions/changes I want to implement and do them. I focus on trying to reach out consistently, on being non-critical, not solving problems or always putting my 2 cents in, unless it's as a friend. I think about what I say before I say it. I try to say/think of more + things. I try to initiate affection (I withdrew when this mess started), but not expect it back (this was a long term goal but I'm seeing progress now). Not to be offended by things. I'm trying to accept, let go, but when it's something important to me, to NOT let it go, but instead approach it differently that I did before--I'm tying to make sustainable changes. H sees that. When I feel anxious or upset and get quiet or sad, I tell him, openly...to avoid him thinking I'm mad at him. He's great about consoling. Most of all, I'm trying to reengage in the other parts of my life that mean a lot: work, friends, family, new hobbies, etc. The balance is so good for me.

It also helps that this week, H and I have really broken through the awkward wall, mostly. There are still times when it's more of an effort than natural, but this is a slow ride, right? It's still work, but much less than it used to be. But, oddly, I feel good about it taking a slow time and not an instant change, I feel that it's *real* healing.

I'll want to steer clear of R talks and keep the peace. The contradiction is knowing when and when not to....b/c H also said (and I feel the same) that the painful R talks were what really pushed us forward...especially the one last week. I guess I have to be more perceptive as to when ist he right time, when is not. Not the casual, annoying talks, but more like the ones where an issue is staring us in the face and we have to talk, to get over the issue, get closer, and to show him that I can talk about things w/o getting freaked and combative.

BUT, not to worry, I won't talk R....I'm going to take your advice and what I see as working. Save the R talks for when it's REALLY needed....not to cry wolf.

Thanks....I'm reading your posts and trying to learn...thanks for taking the time to check in!

Have a great day.