Thank you again, I really love your take on things! Actually I already had that conversation with my W. I told her I was not putting pressure on her and understood what she needed for herself and from me but that it hurt a great deal. I told her I just needed her to know that, not to hurt her, or to influence her, but to maintain my self respect. She took it very well and said that I should notice that she mopes around the house a lot of the time not because she's tired, but because she knows what she is doing hurts me so much. I told her I was ok (lie) and that she could count on me being there for her to talk or whatever. Again, it was a good conversation, totally free from animosity and conflict. Probably one of the best such conversations we have had.
As for the forcing the issue thing, I KNOW that would be bad right now. Problem is that sometimes I just don't care. Sometimes I just get so angry/hurt/frustrated/weak that I don't care if she goes. Sometimes I feel like if she was gone, and her presence as the constant reminder of what is not, and may never be again, removed from my daily life, I would be a lot happier. I know that is foolish and the number of you here that envy my sitch for having her at home still tell me that over and over again. Maybe someday seeing her lying, beautiful and peaceful in the morning next to me won't choke me up. Maybe it always will. I love my wife dearly and that won't change. I will get through this. I have no freakin idea how but I will.
Thanks for being here. Yes, I am trying to concentrate on the Haves and not the Have Nots. I love my boys and from I am getting some strength to carry on. This idea that we are the strong ones is interesting to me and one of the mantras that keeps me going. When I am feeling especially down, I realize that I am also weakest at that point and making the decision to quit, end the marriage, would be very easy, thus appealing to a weak person. Strength does not come easy to me right now but I am learning. You all are helping me recognize where I go wrong a slap me back to reality. Thank you.
Sorry for not posting earlier, but I've been catching up with your sitch. First off, let me say that you are coping very well under the circumstances. This whole process is very hard and takes SO much patience. Obviously you know that forcing the issue will not get you anywhere right now. It may be hard to imagine that what you are doing is right in the long run, but I believe in the process for a couple of reasons. If anything, at the end of the day, we will be better people for it. We can look back and know that we did everything that WE could to save the relationship. Secondly, allowing the WAS to come to their own decisions about the R is the only way that we will ever know if they this is what they truly want. I go back and forth with this all the time because I want so badly to tell my W that its my way or the highway, but I think, what if she chooses? If its "my way", will she truly be doing it for the R, or for the kids, house, money, etc. If she chooses "the highway", can I live with myself knowing that I caused it to happen?
All tough questions. My hope is that your W comes to her senses quickly and that you both can establish goals for the future. Keep up the good work TMU. I rely upon you for inspiration!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
So funny, I rely on YOU for inspiration. Damnit, there we go again cheerleading each other! lol. Anyway, thanks. I know it can get frustrating (not for me) for us all to keep feeling the same things, keep reading the same things posted, and keep saying the same things to each other but I for one need to keep being reassured that I am doing the right thing because every, well almost every, fiber of my being resists this path. As I get support from you all, I am learning to give it to myself. I have mentioned that before this I never liked the idea of therapy. I have also rejected religion as a substitute for other addictions (i.e. replacing heroin with Jesus) but I now see the fallacy in that line of thinking. One thing (in our case, our low self esteem and codependency on our WAS) is debilitating and does nothing to further our self discovery. While the others; church, posting here, leaning on friends, may be still focusing on getting strength from "without" rather than from "within" it is ultimately with the goal of making ourselves stronger and eventually able to stand on our own two feet. We eventually see these institutions as choices rather than necessity and they bring us additional happiness, not our ONLY happiness. There, that's my philosophy for the day. I don't know if it really means anything. Today is a normal day. Heart hurts a bit, but should be ok. I will do my best to inspire you, but you know you are the inspiration right now.
Its tough to stay focused some times, I know I did a little backsliding last night. I guess my problem is the emotional rollercoaster ride. Some days, she can say things that make my heart float, and then she shoots it down again with something else. Baby steps I keep telling myself.
Always remember, you are a good person and gosh darnit people like you. Sorry, that was a cheesy rip off from Saturday Night Live, but it fits here. You will be a better person in the end.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Well, I liken this process to being sick. You know certain times of day are worse when you're sick and once you figure out when those times are, you take medicine to get through them. It seems like when I am at work, I am relatively ok these days. Usually I don't talk to my W during the day (well I used to call her all the time...no more). She called today and caught me in a good moment. Innocuous call but...
M: Hello, whats up? W: Nothing much, just wanted to tell you...(financial stuff, pleasent though) M: Ok, great. W: Also, I made a hair appointment for this afternoon (doesn't affect me because it's when I am at work/kids in school). I just need to get it trimmed. I love the length but it's getting a little ratty. M: Yea, it's been hard not to notice how good you've been looking lately. W: Thanks. W: Ok, how do I get there again...
I know, this is hardly worth posting and loses something in the translation. The important part was that I was smiling the whole conversation and I know that she heard that. The day after a date with the OM I am never that cheerful. The other important thing was that I didn't even have to try. I genuinely felt ok with myself and her. I'm sure the ride is about to plunge into one of those dark tunnels that goes underwater, but for now I feel good. Hell, I even resisted getting angry at the fact she's making herself look better FOR him...er....herself...lol.
Excellent job! Look at it this way, you've come a long way. Several weeks ago, you know you would have reacted much differently and been worse for it. Good for you.
I pretty much had the same sitch on this end. W called me on the way to work, I was feeling a little down and almost slid into R talk. Hung up quicly enough with all the pleasantries. Just talked to her and was very cheerful. It has its effects.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Ok gang, time to slap me again... I was thinking today at lunch that my wife has asked me what kinds of things I am doing at C. I have told her that I am really learning about me and what things I need to improve, even as it relates to the R. Well, that is only part of the truth. What I did not tell her was all the things I realized she was trying to tell me all this time that I either ignored or just didn't understand. I feel I am in a much better place to understand and empathize/validate now since going through this. Ok, my question is, since she asked and I didn't really tell her all there was to tell, I think I need to let her know that through therapy and just plain ole soul searching, I have come to see a lot of what she was going through and understand it now. I would want to be specific about the feelings I now know she was communicating to me (no mind reading, just recognizing that she DID try to tell me things). Is this a good idea? Same as R talk? I am on the fence, obviously. Part of me thinks it is a very good idea because I think on the couple occasions she asked me about C, I got the feeling that she didn't like my answers because they were pretty short and vague. Of course, I am mind reading here so... The other part of me, the DB focused part, doesn't think any R talk is ok right now. So, please, comments from one and all!
My two cents, I don't think it would hurt to bring it up in the context of conversations with her. I've said similar things to my W and I think she appreciates the fact that I'm trying to better myself while at the same time giving her the space she needs. She even told me on several occassions that I don't need to improve as I am the best already (ok, if that's the case, why the problem before us???). I guess that's where I vacillate as well, if she initiates talk regarding feelings, etc., I don't think its a bad idea to touch upon the subject, but not dwell on it.
That's my opinioin, for what its worth.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Thanks Rob. I think I need to make sure it has a beginning, middle and end at least in my mind and that it doesn't degrade into detrimental R talk. I think she needs to know, once, that I understand a lot of things are wrong with me and us, and have been for awhile, and as I said, be specific. I know I never validated her along the way but I want to try to do a little now. I still don't know if it's a good idea. Any others imput?
