Hi y'all. My old thread got locked, so here we are.
I had a great time with my DS14 at the KU game last night. Thanks for the chant, Paul.
Nothing much going on right now. I'm just taking in all the advice about being sexually assertive that was passed out yesterday, getting my best friend prepared to come bail me out, etc.
Okay Blackfoot...lay it on me. "How to seduce Ms. Hdog in 1,345 easy-to-remember steps."
I will respond here on the new thread and say that no, these things would not (and have not) worked with my wife, either. It's an HD/LD "Catch-22" (the other is that "Women need a strong EC to ML, and men need to ML to feel a strong EC") that women find tentative men UNATTRACTIVE, but men who have been repeatedly rejected get tentative.
They want the guy to confidently take them, if and when ALLLLLLL of their planets line up (not that time of the month, feeling good about the marriage, no money worries, no stress with the kids, not too tired, not too hot, not too cold, didn't have a fight today, etc., etc.), but then they reject us repeatedly and suck all of that very confidence OUT of us and tell us that our timidity is a big sexual turn-off.
lay it on me. "How to seduce Ms. Hdog in 1,345 easy-to-remember steps."
I wish. and its not really seduction, its more like presentation of appropriate characteristics. Seduction is their job. We have all the power and value, they want/need us. Remember that. So if you feel as if you are 'trying' to please/seduce her, mmm wrong feeling. Change what you are doing.
You were on track before. I get the feeling that you jumped from dating- remember I said you guys were practically dating again?-- to long term lovers. You have to keep some distance. You have to go thru the whole process again. You cant stop being assertive, directing, leading, once you have a good reaction to it. No, just the opposite, if it works, you have to keep doing it. Forever.
And forget the movie. If she doesnt have a EC with you,attraction for you, no movie is going to push her over the edge. It was you.
Gotta run, have dinner to consume, and mental states to alter via delivery of liquid disinhibitor. too tired to coherently lay out ideas right now.
I wanted to say I'm right there with you sitting in the front row of the class. I'm paying close attention and taking notes too.
I understood BF's comment on M's having/displaying strength (and forever too? Geez, even Conan the Barbarian's gotta take a break sometime). However, the seduction being the F's job comment has kinda thrown me for a loop.
Best of luck to you tonight HD when wife returns home safely. I'm sure that you have laied out some kind of strong, assertive plan as your way of welcoming her once she gets there...
Best of Luck, Happy New Year.
Snook.
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
As for the "welcome" I vote for just grabbing Mrs. HD, planting a noisy one on her and saying, "you are one fine looking lady." Then help her with her stuff etc... Later, grab her @ss and say "glad you are home." She might be pissed but I think she will secretly smile.
Just a quick check-in here. We had a knock-down drag-out which began during a phone call on her drive home from Chicago. It continued after she got home, until just after midnight. Subject, generally, how she wants me to be more "open," but when I share my feelings with her, (anger, resentment, feeling like I'm doing all the work), she gets all upset and tells me what an ungrateful azz I am, how we had more sex this year than last, how she initiated most of those times. "But I initiated, probably, a hundred times, and maybe twice you didn't reject me." "Reject you?!" You know how it goes.
And of course she threatened the big D, etc.
Followed, a fairly uneventful New Year's Day. Did some errands.
This morning, she didn't have to be to work until 9:45.
At about 8, she initiated. And, of course, a mixture of happiness, confusion, etc.
But hey, look at the stats so far: 2 days into 2006, sex once. that is .500!
A fight... good stuff. Throwing the D word around, seeing where you mind is at, testing, looking for validation.
I find it interesting that she feigns suprise on the topic of her rejecting your initiations. Maybe the women will expound somemore on intiating with timidity, hesitation, or in a supplicating way.
maybe something there, in her response, to the way you are initiating. FWIW, I find in general that when a woman is in a R with you, the best approach is to just 'take it'. Ignore MILD protestations. They mean nothing. They mean get me worked up, lead the way.
I can hear all the adverse reactions from the 'nice guys', the people pleasers, etc.---- but, but....
Of course NO means no. STOP means dont. Etc. I dont have to put that for the people pleasers here, but some dumb lurker is going to take that the wrong way.
'Im tired, im sleepy, big sighs of Now'? mean... If you want it you better do something. If you think asking for it is going to get me started and all hot and bothered, you got another think coming. Women ask us for stuff. Men get what we take.
Now you do have to show some awareness, ability to calibrate the generally feeling of where she is at. she may be in the mood, she may not. Not really relevant, I found, in general.
other thoughts. men are very linear, one thing at a time. women do lots of things at the same time. They LOVE anticipation and (the right kind) teasing. Meaning we go to bed, time for nookie. Well there was no touching, no flirting, no verbal, physical forplay, and then bam you touch her and she KNOWS what you want, but she isnt anywhere close to being turned on.
Ideas for escalation. ----------------------------- I dont seperate affection and sex. They are all entertwined, a process that continues thruout the day, all day everyday.
I am very physical with my woman. We walk thru the mall, Ill hold her hand and our of nowhere, make her pirouett.(sp?) Ill goof around and bump her, pull her, do a couple of cha cha steps out of nowhere, pretend like I am going to push her into a pole, a puddle, especially if she is busy talking to me and not paying attention where she is walking. etc. But I also am 'gallant' open doors, put myself between her and 'danger' hug her close from behind when we are in lines, crowds, etc. Claiming and protective. Then Ill wander away and go do my own thing. Let her come find me. Not needy and clingy.
Thats just general. watching tv or a movie, play with her hair, run fingers thru hair, fingernails on scalp, massage earlobes, tickle the back of her knees, but then stop after a minute or two. Brush her face, cheeks, neck, with the back of your hand lightly lightly lightly, stare into her eyes, then kiss her.
when kissing take your hand and hold the back of her head, with your fingers entwined in her hair. Make a fist out of her hair and tug it gently. pull her head back. Dont try to use your toungue to check her tonsils. nibble her lips,kiss her eyes, forhead, and really important, kiss around and on her ears, quietly, while breathing warmly on her ears and neck.
Smelling... I cant emphasize enough how important smelling a woman is. Have her sit in front of you give her a little shoulder rub. lean forward and smell her hair. Smell her neck, She will break out in goosebumps. kiss lightly then go back to smelling. I have this 'trick' I do called 'puppy'. (You cant steal it though, its copyrighted. It just to give you an idea of the way I smell women.) I sniff, snuffle, smell, inhale her all over.
Then. STOP. leave, go do something else. go back to shoulder rub. The best way to describe it is, if she likes it stop doing it. (you dont have to understand why they like this. you just have to do it.) come back to it later, a minute, a hour, whatever. act like your completely oblivious to her arousal. When she looks at you like WTH? is he doing. say out of nowhere, 'You want me. I know it'. or 'are you horny.. AGIAN!?!' -- 'Youve been thinking about ML with me all day havent you?!' Blame her in a fun way, accuse her of being insatiable. Its the opposite of being supplicating.
Im physical all the time. watching a movie? Ill shout ROWR!! and grab her during a scary part. THEY HATE THIS with a passion. SO WHAT. Stop being nice. Its hilarious. depending on her personality type, she will want to snuggle out of fear reaction, or 'beat you' which means wrestling time, fun fun, or get all huffy, which means 'grab me and drag me back to snuggle with you'. It doesnt mean apologize. When she pouts, make pouty faces back at her.
If you have a woman that likes to wrestle, escalate it. I get real serious and intense when we are wrestling, with my body and eyes, but laugh and make fun of her with my words and face. I try to provoke her to getting extremely physical, almost in serious fighting mode. It generates LOTS of chemicals emotions, you will see her eyes start flashing, and is a good tension builder. Just dont get caught up in it, or serious about it. When she is worked up, stop, kiss her on the forehead and go get a drink.
Ill move her around on the couch, and adjust her to fit me so I/we are comfortable. I dont ask if she is. If she has her head on my lap, Ill move her so her feet are in my lap and play with the back of her knees. If her head is on my shoulder Ill put it on my lap and play with her ears, hair, neck, clavicle. Then Ill smack her on the azz and tell her to go get us a drink, snacks, fold the laundry, etc. then switch it, put your head in her lap and tell her to rub your neck.
Other things I do occasionally. If its a new restaurant for her, and not for you, order her meal. IF you get there first, order for her. I used to entertain a lot for work, she would show up after we were there, I would order for her.
Find new places, take her there, dont tell her where. let her guess. Tell her how to dress or what she needs to wear to be appropriately attired. I love telling my woman what to wear. love it, love it.
Tell her to find a new restaruant, activity, family outing. Be the decision maker, but put her in charge of it. example 'Dear, I want to try Indian food. Find a couple to choose from, we are going on thursday'. Your leading, but including her in the team process.
In bed, be very physical. move her around, pull her by her ankles, flip her over, hold her arms down, twist her like a pretzel, put her where/how you want her to be. pull her hair, use strong hands, grip her shoulders, hold hands. let her feel your strength, and desire. stay tuned to her, if she is close, or seems ready to O, let her be on top. Its not the time to be hesitant. at all. If she doesnt want something, she will say No. If she wants something she will ask or hint. maybe. otherwise she wants you to do what you want, so take charge. Do things differently. change them up. Women get bored with tab a in slot b, position c,d,e. done.
If you are predictable, if you do things the same way everytime, she will be able to deny, reject, block, without even thinking about it.Remeber the everyday gets filtered out. There are some HD women round about here doing that stuff, just because they can....
Women are biologically programmed and environmentally ingrained to automatically say no. If you play into that, like nice guys do --you are part of the problem. If you put her needs above yours, the placating will turn her off.
the preceeding is just general ideas, not aimed at anyone in particular.
HD, do you and your wife unwind and reconnect before going to bed? do you talk before sleeping? Next time you respond to her, or approach her, review your interaction afterwardss and ask yourself was it supplicating? was it placating? If it was, do anything else. These behaiviors turn women off at such at sub level, its impossible to discuss it, logical it, or wish it werent so.
Old joke Husband sits on the side of the bed and holds out a glass of water and two aspirins to his W. She says whats that for? He says, for your headache. She says I dont have a headache. Husband throws the aspirin over his shoulder and say YEE HAH, were having sex tonight....
Just grab your W and pull her too you. IF she says I am hot, throw off the covers. and say 'well take off your PJ's then...'
Blackfoot...okay, you have sufficiently stirred up the whole board, lol. I agree that Hairdog should emulate some of the manly, assertive stuff you suggest, however he does have to walk a line here and not overwhelm her because she needs to feel in control. She gets some stimulation from the fights and D talk, and the Dog is able to control his reaction better. I also find it interesting that she denies her rejecting behavior... on some level, she knows she is not playing fair but can't/won't admit it. He is getting through though and communicating his unhappiness...the goal here now is to see if they can establish a more regular pattern...she has to feel she's "allowing" it to happen.
Hairdog, I recognize your W's defensive, controlling behavior because I was the Queen at this...in fact, I chose a man I thought I could control...until one day I had the epiphany it wasn't working for me (and that I even got rather turned on by some submissive thoughts). Just wanted to say I think you are doing a good job here being confident and non-reactive but not over the top (which would threaten her). Keep walking the line, and...
Thank you all. A little more info on her not admitting that she is rejecting me: She says, "I am not rejecting you. It's not like I'm saying, 'I don't want to have sex with YOU.' When I say "no" to you, I don't want to have sex with ANYONE. So, I'm not 'rejecting' you. That's something that's just going on in your head."
And yes, I tried to explain to her that, one "no" here or there is not a big deal...but 99.99% "no" is a big deal, and would work its "rejection" magic on the most self-assured person.
She didn't "get it" during the argument...but maybe it sunk in later.
Remember that. So if you feel as if you are 'trying' to please/seduce her, mmm wrong feeling. Change what you are doing.
It just to give you an idea of the way I smell women.) I sniff, snuffle, smell, inhale her all over.
SO WHAT. Stop being nice. Its hilarious. depending on her personality type, she will want to snuggle out of fear reaction, or 'beat you' which means wrestling time, fun fun, or get all huffy, which means 'grab me and drag me back to snuggle with you'. It doesnt mean apologize. When she pouts, make pouty faces back at her. 