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Heather,

I am so sorry you are having to endure this nonsense on such a regular basis. It has to be incredibly frustrating.

What I am going to suggest to you is this...

Try to DB yoiur little heart out like a pro for the next 2 months. Like you never have before. One thing we know we can expect from your H is more BS down the line. You've got to expect it and detach from it. This is obviously not your issue so do not personalize it. Your frustration may help you detach. Make some goals of what you can do to really DB for the next month or two and really implement them. See if after some time is put in, if he has softened his attitude and seems more open to working on the M. And if not, then you may truly be at a point where you want to let this M go.

Heather, I know you don't want to end your M. I have not figured out why you think that means you'd lose your kids other than he has threatened you with this. His words are not gold, dont be intimidated by his threats. You set out to DB your heart out, also to be a fabulous mom to the world so he can't try to use anything against you and then see if this is something he can work with or not. And if he cannot, then you just may need to get away for your own sanity. You can only stay in this position for so long until it wears you down, and you are feeling worn, as would any of us.

The more you detach Heather, the easy it will be. Because no matter what he spews out, it won't ruffle you and you can respond/behave in a calm and mature way.

H is def. trying to bait you. You are too smart for that, so don't fall for it. Focus on your own attitude, on detaching, on keeping your life on track, on spending quality time with your kids.

And the kid issue is what has got to be the worst. He uses them as ammo against you. He is interferring with your R with them. This is where I'd have a very hard time not losing it...I do understand the challenge you face everyday and I am sorry. I don't know any good advice for how you can interact with the kids to negate what he is doing...perhaps your counselor or someone here can offer you some decent advice there.

Meanwhile, I almost think you should go see a lawyer. Tell them that you are going to give it a couple of months to see if things improve, but that you want to know your status and options, esp. as related to the kids.

I'm not telling you what to do. It has to be your decision in the end. I guess though, you are at a point where you seem about to give up. And if you do, we'll support you. But I think you will want to know you gave your all first. So if that is where you are at, maybe this one last charged DBing effort will truly let you know if this is something to hold onto, or will allow you to walk away with peace in your decision.

I wish you the best, Heather. Don't believe all these things he says. Don't buy into them. He's one person, and his opinion is way off mark. You are a great person. You care so much about your kids that you have endured an unimaginable challenge. You know what that says about you, so don't let him sabotage that.

Heather,

Boy he's acting like an *ss! Don't know how you do it! Have some different thoughts though. Can you see how H being the good guy and you being the bad guy is a cheeseless tunnel? Your actions are playing right into his hands.. mostly with the kids, but it's keeping him in a position of control. Is there ANY way at all that you can turn this around? Enough to take the control away and leave him dangling a little. In the scope of your life.. how important is it that you be the one to make sure teeth are brushed... bedtime is normal, etc? Reasonably as a mother you should be able to have a routine, make rules and have your H support you. You're not dealing with that though and he's using them against you. I'm not suggesting you use the kids to get what you want, but I would suggest that you make it harder for him to use them against you.

IMHO, I think your H is being cruel to your kids by doing this. He's trying to destroy their trust and love for their mother. That's abuse... it's control of them and you. He has no right to define your R with your children. Have you thought about taking them (S5 particularly) to a child psychologist? It can't be making a secure child for him to be constantly led to believe that his mother doesnt care or is neglecting his needs. If this is allowed to grow and fester, it might make for a very angry teenager.. no matter how much your H is there for your S5, the growing belief (encouraged by a Dad he trusts) that his Mom has let him down, etc., is going to be hard for him to deal with. If push comes to shove, you might need a professional to back up that your H is manipulating your kids against you. That's not healthy! It's not what a GOOD parent does.

Im thinking of you. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Huggs.

Sheila

who he blames for being the evil one.

I don't know how deep the damage of my A goes....I just don't know. What I did may not be fixable. So, to that extent, I *am* the evil one. I just wish if he feels that way, he would let me go because this is killing me.

I wish so much that your H would find a way to see how much you are trying

The fact that he is so blind to it makes me doubt that I am really trying at all. I mean, if I was trying half as hard as I seem to think I am, wouldn't he SEE it? Clearly I'm not doing something right.....I'm too emotional.

I know you are frustrated but I think you owe it to yourself to take the advice given and stay the course.

Why do you think I owe it to myself, what do you mean by that?

Try to DB yoiur little heart out like a pro for the next 2 months.

This is a great idea, it's very motivational. Sometimes I look backward and think to myself "Gosh, it's been a year and a half and right now H and I are back to where we were just months after I told him about the A. There have been some good times in between, but mostly bad.." It makes me feel like nothing will get better. That negative thought and the negative, defeated energy that goes along with it may sabotage me before I ever do anything good. I have the best of intentions, but maybe it never turns to any kind of action that H can see.

One thing we know we can expect from your H is more BS down the line. You've got to expect it and detach from it.

Expect it. Hmm. That's probably good. I keep expecting him to act better, act like he cares. Maybe if I can let go of those expectations I won't be so hurt when he doesn't act the way I think he should.

I'll post more later. I have so much more I want to respond to, but I need to get to S5's karate. Thanks to all.

I don't know how deep the damage of my A goes....I just don't know. What I did may not be fixable. So, to that extent, I *am* the evil one. I just wish if he feels that way, he would let me go because this is killing me.

That seems reasonable but the A damage not being fixable is relative. It is up to your H to forgive you. You cannot fix the damage. You can only do your part to be the woman YOU want to be. You are already doing all you can to prove your intentions and demonstrate your understanding of what you did. I don't think you can do much more other than keep doing it until he either begins the forgiving process or decided he can't ever do that.

Why do you think I owe it to myself, what do you mean by that?

I just mean because of all the work you have put in thus far. It seems to me that if he is still there, then it's not over unless he really is ONLY interested in watching you squirm. I guess I just have hope for you, and I think you do too.

GH

Geez Heather, I have no idea what to write anymore about your sitch. But that obviously doesn't stop me.

What I did may not be fixable. So, to that extent, I *am* the evil one.

Can I say, "oh Stop!"? I know you look inward a lot and reason that the blame falls on you here and there, and sometimes yes, you're culpable and sometimes not... but look, this is past stuff. Yes, it's hurtful, and shall always be so. Yes, it shattered things. The trick of course is to repair shattered things, be it a coffee mug or a relationship. One doesn't stay stuck staring at the shattered coffee mug, unless one chooses to stay there. Your H chooses to stay there.

I just wish if he feels that way, he would let me go because this is killing me.

Why is it up to him to let you go? This is your life, not his.

The fact that he is so blind to it makes me doubt that I am really trying at all. I mean, if I was trying half as hard as I seem to think I am, wouldn't he SEE it? Clearly I'm not doing something right.....I'm too emotional.

If you're working on things, for your part, and it needn't be that you're perfect in what you do, but that you're trying different things and showing that you're working on stuff, and one's partner is adamant about sabotaging whatever you do, and not stepping up to the plate in earnest and working on things themselves... well... hey... you've got a partner then that's not working on the relationship nor cares to. Your move.

Maybe if I can let go of those expectations I won't be so hurt when he doesn't act the way I think he should.

You don't know about having zero expectations? Here's the skinny: have zero expectations. And never expect others to "act the way you think they should". It just sets you up for frustration. Also, people don't think like one another, so even if your H was going about conducting himself reasonably as a man involved in working on a relationship, he still may not do so as you picture it to be. But you'd see it happening nonetheless, just in a different way than you expect. See, the problem is that when people are so bent on having to see things happen in a manner according to their vision, they get upset even when things are OK.

For example, how many times have you read, "He says he wants to work on things, but he's never apologized for having the affair. I don't know if I can forgive him if he doesn't apologize". You see, in this example, why let expectation that there should be an apology (as nice as that would be to have) nullify everything else that is working from working. And then, even when there's an apology, if it doesn't meet the expectations of what the apology should be like...

Moving on, so it turns out he has to work and so can't pick up the kids, so that's OK that he works, but your work assignment, which consisted of a dinner, is entirely appropriate for you to give up doing, according to your H. La de da, what else is new? And he sabotages the kids getting ready, the kids going to sleep, sabotages you trying to talk to him, yadda, yadda... in the meantime, you gave up doing the dinner, which makes you feel happy or resentful, I wonder... and he keeps trying you... playing his head games... what I would try is to drop everything, and I mean everything. Stop. Don't do anything anymore. Nothing. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Let him put the kids to bed. Let him get them ready in the morning. Let him fix dinner, let him take out the garbage, let him do it ALL. No pointing anything out to him. Tell him you give up. He argues against your participation and responsibility, so... see what happens when the onus is completely on him being responsible for it all. What's he going to do, argue that you should be more responsible?

I know you don't want to end your M. I have not figured out why you think that means you'd lose your kids other than he has threatened you with this.

I don't think I'd lose them, as in the court would take them away from me. I know I'm a damn good mother in the eyes of most people, with the exception of my H.
I just worry that to do what's best for the kids, I'd have to share custody. That are some reasons why they'd be better off not sharing custody....but overall, nothing has convinced me entirely that they should not see their Dad just as often as they see their Mom. So, I'd lose half my time with them.
In addition, H uses the kids against me. That would probably remain the same or escalate if we separated. Remember me going to pick the kids up from daycare the other day and S5 cried? Do you think it didn't cross my mind "This is what it would be like....he is not going to want to come to my house." And I don't think I'm being melodramatic here....my son doesn't want me, he wants his Dad. And eventually I worry that D3 will catch on either to her brother's reluctance to see me or do anything with me or her father's treatment of me and she will start to mirror that behavior as well. That's what I say when I'm in danger of losing my kids.
However, I'm beginning to see that I'm in just as much danger of those things happening while I'm here in this house than if I lived somewhere else. I guess I just worry that S5 would resent me for 'taking them away' from their Daddy.

dont be intimidated by his threats.

I can try, but I AM! I don't think I even realize how....I don't even know the word to use....intimidated I guess is a good one.....until Tuesday, I had a seminar that the HR director invited me to. The seminar was for women only and it was about investing, sort of a networking thing for local businesswomen as well. Anyway, the seminar was supposed to be until 5:30 so I told H I may be home a few minutes later than I usually am, I usually get home about 5:40. Well, at 5:30 the seminar was still going. My blood pressure started to rise. My phone rings. I answer it. It's H. I tell him the seminar is still going but should be ending any time now. About 15 minutes later, my phone rings again as I'm walking out of the seminar. It's H. I tell him the seminar is over and I'm leaving now I'll be home in a bit. He tells me to remember we need sub buns and milk, which I vaguely remember offering to pick up on my way home..that was before I realized my seminar would run over and now I have an hour before H and I are supposed to go to dance class which means I'll get practically zero time with the kids. I tell him ok. So I practically run to the parking garage, I'm flustered, can't find my car....by this time I'm practically in tears. I call H and tell him I'm just running so behind, I can't find my car, I may not have time to stop and get the stuff. He says sarcastically "Nice." I said "Is there something else we can make?" He says "Well, I was going to make sesame chicken, but you're the one who said you wanted subs and now we don't have enough time." We like to make dinner for his parents on Tuesdays b/c they come straight from work to watch our kids while we go dancing. Anyway, I ended up stopping and getting the stuff and blah blah blah, but the point is, I was an absolute wreck. If I said his wrath didn't intimidate me, I'd be LYING.

I don't know any good advice for how you can interact with the kids to negate what he is doing...perhaps your counselor or someone here can offer you some decent advice there.

Yeah, I really need help with this. I think I just make things worse by telling S5 the importance of being nice and treating people like he would like to be treeated. While he's in bed, during my time to say goodnight to him (the only 'alone' time I ever have with him) I'll try to talk to him sometimes about his day or how good he did at karate and he won't stop messing around or acting silly even after I tell him that it's 'settle down time' I have no power or implied authority with him and eventually, I just tell him goodnight and walk out....sometimes he'll call after me "Mommy are you mad?" I'll go back in his room and tell him No, I'm not mad, I just need you to understand the importance of listening and being respectful to someone when they are talking..blah blah blah. Before I can even finish my sentences, he's acting silly again. I know much of this is kid stuff. But my vision of being a parent is that MOST times when I tell my child it's time to quiet down, they quiet down. Anyway, to make a long story short, my S5 has already figured out that he has power over me. I can tell by the way he smiles when I tell him something hurt my feelings, etc. He knows. And I don't know how to handle it.

Meanwhile, I almost think you should go see a lawyer.

I did this last year, so I think I know what my options are. Pretty grim. The L's advice is to file for custody. The only way to convince a judge to hear a custody case in a situation where the two parents are still living in the same household is to also file for D. Not good. I told the L I just wanted a separation, he advised me NOT to move out of the marital home if I want custody of my kids. Do not sign a lease, do not spend nights elsewhere. In my case, it's like, file for divorce or nothing.

Don't believe all these things he says. Don't buy into them. He's one person, and his opinion is way off mark. You are a great person. You care so much about your kids that you have endured an unimaginable challenge. You know what that says about you, so don't let him sabotage that.

Thank you so much S_H.

I still have so much more to post, but it's time to get the kids ready for their first ice skating lesson. I'm excited to see them out there on the ice, my little figure skater and my hockey player!!!

More later.