Quote: And their R is based on lies too...she cheated on her H with him...does he not realize that that is so much worse than what i did? And that she could do it to him as well? Does he really want the responsibility of somebody else's kids,
They do realize it can be done back to them. At first, I never thought my H. gave this a lot of thought. Only when he began opening up to me about the many problems in his R. with o.w. ("We argue too much to be in a relationship" and "There is nothing she could say that would make me trust her") did I start to realize that the basis of their R. was very, very unstable. They will only be known as cheaters to each other, no matter what they do now.
I am not sure how to address the issue of children, Imdi. I can tell you that in our case, it wasn't that we didn't want kids. Now, H. is carrying a photo of o.w.'s child in his wallet. Oh yeah, this bothers me a lot. Maybe he wants a family? Or thought he did? Do you think that is possible in your H.'s case? Did he feel, perhaps, that he was missing out on that and was drawn to an instant family? Not to add more worries to you; just posing the questions that might lead you to an answer.
Please take care today; I am thinking of you.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
So sorry I lost your new thread. I have been catching up. Well, now you know about OW for sure. Fine. I would even say good...
I have lots of thoughts on this one. Keeping in mind that this is just my humble (or not so humble ) opinion... here it goes:
On the topic of OW:
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She said she drives by my house to see if he is there. She also told me that she hired someone to follow him last year when we first separated and that he had been found at her house.
First a question.. who is the she? Did your aunt follow him? Did she hire the investigator? I cant remeber from your threads- who is this OW?
OK, leaving that topic aside for the moment...
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Now, i feel like, how could he love me and lie to my face? And maybe he doesn't love me...maybe that has all been a lie too. And the thought that he wasn't the person i thought he was is nauseating. I think, was i so blind as not to realize what or who he was? But, i remember believing that he loved me and feeling it...could he have been faking it for years?
Hmm, faking it all those years.. tooo exhaudting.. what man (or woman) would ever do that?! I think he did and does love you. You dont just push the delete button on love. All the more reason he cant be honest with you about OW. I am sure he is ashamed of it but is trying to justify it... I know I would. Also, might think that if you know he would for sure lose you. (Reember OW is a chance also for him to see that the grass is not always greener.)
Now on to the R conversation. I had a similar talk with my H last week. I did it to get some peace of mind and understand where I am at. I realize though that I was pushing for definites that he could not give. And the moment I took him literally and pulled back , he panicked and moved in. Check out the reply from HH about pursuing in my thread. It is fascinating.
Ok, I will attempt something similar with your post:
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He said i looked beautiful.
Wow, that is a nice compliment. One point for Lmdi!
Quote: I am feeling very hopeless tonight friends. H said that he didn't want to mislead me (i told him it was very confusing to spend all this time with him), but that we were probably getting D. I asked if he was open to the possibility that things could work out for us...he said "i am open to all kinds of possibilities."
Lmdi, notice what he said : he is OPEN to all possibilities. This is good. VERY good, in fact. He is NOT slamming the door in your face.
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He said he cannot forgive me for lying to him last year, and that he can't trust me emotionally. He said he misses so many things about me and our life and has all of these memories, but they are tainted.
Just like my H, your H is still stuck in the past! Still hurting and not letting go. BUT just the fact ythat he misses you and the life you had means to me that he DOES see that alot of it was good.
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I did ask if there was a chance, and he said that he didn't have a crystal ball and couldn't see into the future, but that we weren't going to be together now.
Again, he is keeping the door open but declaring his need for space... give it to him. I am in ta similar spot at the moment and it is soo hard . I know you know this but by asking if there is a chance: that gives him control/power and could be seen as you pursuing. Also, just like my H. He needs his space now. So we can get it out of our heads that we will be getting back together in the next month or so. To which I say, we need to really start anew and work on GAL and REALLY letting go. (At least for me , I realize that I have let go a lot but have also tried to push or pull a bit . I was afraid to risk losing him and totally let go. Now I realize it is the only way-- for me.)
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He said i was the love of his life and that there are times when he all he wants is to be with me. But, then he gets scared and doubts that he can trust me b/c i didn't meet his needs for so long.
Lmdi, he is opening his heart to you. This is the essence right here. Wow- the love of his life... and he was able to tell you that considering the seperation and all. YOU are the love of his life not that SOW or OW or whatever she is and no one else: you. This , imo, is someone who does not want to lose you but just is not ready to come back to you right now. Maybe he will never get there but the point is , he is not there now. As much as that stinks, that is the reality. Which brings the simple question: where are you at?
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I told him that if there was even a 1% chance, then i would still hold out hope for us. He said he is still ambivalent about even filing for D, as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't done it yet. I did say something about whether it was a matter of "if or when" he would file...he said "if." He said he is not 100% committed to D, but did admit that he was leaning that way. He did acknowledge seeing a lot of changes in me over the past few months.
Lmdi, you are pursuing here:"1%". "if"... could sound needy and clingy . Please dont take my word as mean or harsh. I understand: I did it last week too. That is why I want to share with you what I see. Your H does not want a D but even more so he does not want to be pushed.. Also, notice how the moment you "pursue" he is able to to use that. As for the "leaning that way" ... hah, I have a hunch that leaning could go the other way VERY quickly and in actually he only said that because he felt pushed.
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He also said if it was too confusing for us to spend time together and for him to call me, then he would stop doing that. I said no, i didn't want to not have him in my life at all.
Lmdi, pursuing again. My H has pulled this one on me. Last time I said : ok, maybe you are right and he quickly back peddled. Again another sitch where H has too much power and KNOWS it. WE should be the ones using this line! See this is where I think, we are afraid to risk really letting go.
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When he told me that he couldn't even think about the possibility of getting D, i said, see doesn't that tell you something? He said yes, it tells me that i don't want to hurt anymore. He talked about being lonely...and i told him that i could relate to that feeling.
You are trying to convince him. I just did that again on Monday. It only give them more power in the sitch. So in a way it is another example of "pursuing".
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I really don't know what to think anymore. On one hand, he seems to be saying that he is going to go through with the D, and then he will contradict himself. I asked him if was set on going through with it and he said no. He also said that he was going to re-visit the issue after the holidays. I asked "revisit it emotionally, or legally?" He said, "well emotionally. but aren't they tied together?" I also asked him if i should still have hope or if i should give up. He said he couldn't make that decision for me, that that was something i needed to decide on my own. So, i basically still have no answer and still feel as if i am in limbo.
Lmdi, I say this with lots of compassion. Read and re-read that paragraph and look at the dynamic there.Pretend it is another DBer that you are replying to. There is so much going on in those few sentences. Really, what would you say to a fellow DBer about that paragraph?
OK, I know that is a lot to digest. I went into a bit of a down slope when I started to process what HH had written in my thread BUT it has been a huge eye-opener for me and I am glad he did that.
Please know I in no way meant to come across as judgemental or preachy so I am so sorry if I did. Your posts just really resonated with me and I feel your pain and confusion.
Looking forward to hearing what you think!
brava
Me: 36 He: 34 no kids Married: 2000 He left: July 05
Hey, Imdi! Sorry it's taken me so long to get back with you. I've been thinking of you, though.
The limbo stuff. It sucks. It was so interesting to me, in my sitch, that I started feeling *worse* when H started showing signs of "improvement" than I did in the weeks that I had absolutely no communication with him. Being "dark" was the easiest part, even though I didn't feel that way at the time.
And when I started noticing H taking "baby steps," I started to push. It was almost like a natural reaction. Then, when I caught him with OW, I threw DBing principles slap out the window, and I pushed and pushed. I stated in one post that it was almost like I had what I wanted in the palm of my hand, and as soon as it started slipping through my fingers, I started grasping for whatever was left.
In my case, nothing was left. But it sounds much different in yours.
Your H's A has seemingly already started to be old news. You said things had gotten better before you "slipped." There's absolutely nothing wrong with "slipping" every once in a while. But when you're tempted to push, I would just urge you to really go within yourself and realize that perhaps the *reason* you feel the need to push is because you're actually and finally getting somewhere with your H.
DBing is difficult always, but I would argue that it's the most difficult to do when we're actually seeing baby steps.
Yes, you're still in limbo, and you're probably going to stay there for some time. That's why I believe it's important for you to be sure of what you want, and know your boundaries as best you can.
13 months is a long time, but it sounds to me that things are improving, however slight those improvements may seem.
Let me ask you this: Your options are to keep trying to save your M by working on yourself, or what? File for D? What are your other options?
Hi lmdi -- i'll take that one - NO. sorry, was that sarcastic? IMHO, don't believe what he says until he can back it up with what he does. The thing is, if our WAS didn't talk a good game, we wouldn't be in these situations. He has no idea what he wants. He's telling you what he thinks you want and need to hear because it makes him feel better about the role he is playing in this mess. He also thinks if he keeps feeding you lines, that you'll be "on his side" once he figures things out.
Quote: Why didn't he just tell me yesterday...give up, move on...instead of leaving it up to me?
Because he doesn't want to be the bad guy here. He wants you to be the bad guy. He wants you to leave him, so that he can then say 'ha, well, she left me. i didn't leave her.' even if, for all intensive purposes he has already left. In order for him to justify his behavior, you have to be at fault - you have to be the bad guy. Otherwise, the alternative is he has to take ownership in some of this --- and that's the last thing he wants because then he has to deal with the consequences of his actions. until that time, he gets to live in fantasyland. none of this real world crap that you're dealing with.
hang in there... you're doing the incredibly brave, noble thing. he's the mess here not you!!!
Quote: DBing is difficult always, but I would argue that it's the most difficult to do when we're actually seeing baby steps.
Yes, you're still in limbo, and you're probably going to stay there for some time. That's why I believe it's important for you to be sure of what you want, and know your boundaries as best you can.
Talk about words of wisdom. Those baby steps are the ones that make me the most frustrated in the end.. and then I realize I started pursuing/pushing again.
Focusing on what WE want and our boundries brings the focus onto us again. Which is sooo easy to lose sight of.
brava
Me: 36 He: 34 no kids Married: 2000 He left: July 05
You can put youe spouce in limbo by them seeing the changes and wondering what has came about you over the matter of time? Make them have the mystery of not knowing what is going on.
"A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue." Proverbs 17:27-28
Hope- Thanks for checking in with me today. Its late, but i had a migraine all night and am finally able to lift my head off the pillow.
I am not sure if my H sees that ow was cheating on her H. He may feel that she was in such a bad sitch, that she "had" to get out. And, he was there to rescue her. This rescuing seems to be a thing with him...and he even acknowledges it.
As for the kid thing with my H...i am not sure what to say. When we got married, i was under the impression that my H did want kids. Originally, i wanted 3 and he wanted 1. I said, okay, how about 2? And then, when we were working towards reconciling in the spring, i said that i would like at least 1, which he agreed to. Although, at that time he did say that he liked his life the way it was...he could go wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted. And he seemed ambivalent about the effect having a child would have on his life. He has always been concerned about the cost involved in having kids and this was always an issue for him. He always said people shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them. His friends have kids, so he is around them sometimes. He just seems to be easily annoyed by kids, particularly girls. So, could he feel like the ow's kids are only "part-time?"...i guess. Maybe he feels like the financial responsibility isn't really his. I don't know. I guess nothing would really surprise me at this point...he has done things that i never would have imagined, so being a "dad" may be part of the new him.
Thank you for checking in with me today. I am going to check on your thread.
Hey brava- Thanks for checking in. I did read your updates and felt like we were in the same place emotionally a few days ago. I will check in with yours again. Thank you for your feedback...you gave me a lot to think about...and none of it was harsh or judgemental or preachy.
RE: ow sitch....my aunt is the one who hired someone last year to follow my H. My aunt also said that she drives by my house late at night and sees that my H is not home. I don't know if she drives by ow's house as well, but she did say that my H spends most nights at her house. OW is a co-worker (surprise surprise).
I know you are right...i did too much pursuing. I regret having the conversation b/c i am afraid that it set us back. I didn't know if i should just drop it now or say something like "i am sorry i got so emotional the other day. but i appreciate your honesty and am glad that we are now on the same page. now that i understand exactly where you are at, i hope that we can continue to have our friendship." Something like that...or just let it go and not say anything?
I guess the hardest thing for me right now is actually believing the things he is saying. If he has been lying about the ow to my face for so long, couldn't he be lying about all this other stuff as well? I guess i don't understand how i can be the love his life, but he still does not want to be with me. I know that i need to stop over analyzing everything he says, but it is just so hard. I guess i am trying to protect myself, but i don't think that is possible. What is hard for me to understand is: he said he doesn't want to confuse me...if he looks at his behaviors over the past month, what did he think i was going to think? I mean, he makes plans to see me, he tells me ILY and IMY and "do you realize what you are missing...me too", we are still intimate, he calls me, he reaches out to me when he doesn't feel good or is upset about our situation. There are many things over the past month that have made me think that we were taking baby steps forward. I know that he is upset about this week and new years eve...i expect limited contact from him and if he does call me, i anticipate that he will be hostile towards me. I thought that maybe he needed to get past new years and see that nothing happens and maybe he would want to try. But, after our conversation, that doesn't seem to be a possibility. I guess i need to try to go back to how i had been over the past few months...no R talk, no crying. Maybe all of that contributed to the positive steps.
Okay, i will definitely go back and read what you wrote brava...thanks again.
) opinion... here it goes:
.
. Please dont take my word as mean or harsh. I understand: I did it last week too. That is why I want to share with you what I see. 
Those baby steps are the ones that make me the most frustrated in the end.. and then I realize I started pursuing/pushing again.