Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE LFL's Next Thread

Hi, LFL.

Privacy is not wrong. He doesn't need to be reading through your personal journals and such. I don't have a problem with a private bulletin board so long as it is being used in the way this one is. Even so, I didn't hide my participation here from MrsNOP, although I was surprised when she decided to read all my posts and start participating. That was an interesting day for some relationship growth in the NOP household.

I don't think that you having email conversations with a male friend should be private. That would be a secret.

Just common sense stuff, no secrets. Privacy is okay.

Having said all that, once you get to a stage of intimacy in your relationship, you will worry less about privacy, and as you hide less from your spouse, you will find deeper intimacy is possible in your relationship.

Just remember this, there is no room for secrets in a marriage. Secrets are a marriage slayer. If he or you are toting secrets, then you have some serious relational working out to do.

You said your husband only corresponds with male friends. How do you know? Do you know who his friends are, and what kind of people they are? Have you met them?

Do you see what I mean about secrets? Unless you can answer positively to all the previous questions, then he has secrets. I think you get the idea.

For what it's worth, MrsNOP has all my passwords, and I have all hers. The email accounts we use publicly are all shared.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

I don't think that you having email conversations with a male friend should be private. That would be a secret.

H has lots of female friends. I don't have nearly as many male friends. I don't want to get into a "can men and women be friends" convo but it does go back to that. As for his internet friends, I really don't know who they are since I don't talk to them. So I guess we both have secrets.
But doesn't it really come down to trust.
Sure, you and MrsNop have each others passwords but why is that really necessary if you have a strong healthy trusting R/M. Anyone can open a new account without the other person knowing. So you think you have all access but you really dont. My point is if people want to keep a secret they will. There is no way to force the issue of trust. It is either there or it isn't. In my case, it isn't.

Hi, LFL.

You're right, you can't force trust. Along the same vein, you can't completely trust anyone. I trust my wife, but not completely. I think that would be very unhealthy in any relationship.

I think that the two of you really need to share some honesty between you, especially him. My instincts tell me all is not as it seems, or has been stated.

Again, why don't you go first and see what happens.

Edited to add: MrsNOP could have all kinds of secret accounts, but that type of secrecy is very difficult when all other areas of your life are 'open book'.

-NOPkins-

Good point Nop. I also think it is unhealthy to be too trusting. Which makes me question why H has not insisted that I hand over email, cell phone, etc accounts since we have reconciled.
Actually I think I know why. Because that is his nature. He is a very trusting person. Always has been. Throughout our entire M, he always expressed full trust in me and would say flat out that he Knew I would never have an A. He never once showed any jealousy or concern regarding any other men. He is still like that today despite the fact that I had a sexual R with OM less than a year ago.
He sounds like the complete opposite of you in many ways Nop so I don't know how he would respond to this "open book" approach. No. I do know how he would respond. He would say ok and then maybe underneath the surface not be comfortable with it but never tell me. That just about sums up most of our interactions. Do you know how hard it is to live with someone when you not only do not trust the negatives (is he lying/cheating etc) but you also have no reason to trust the positives (he really means it when he says he will never leave again, that he loves me more than ever, that he trusts me, respects me). I barely respect myself sometimes, why would he respect me so much?
I am just trying to be realistic. He lives in happy land most of the time. Drives me nuts.

LFL,

I agree with what NOPs says about openess. Let me put it this way to you...how do you expect your M to move forward if you two aren't open books to each other? If each of you, and I suspect this to be true, feels the other may be holding back in some way (whatever way) you won't move forward...it's as if you each have your own invisible barriers up.

GEL

Hi GEL

Just like trust, you cannot force openness. So let's put that together. I do not trust that my H will be able to be fully open with me. And I'm not talking just about accounts. I'm talking about his true feelings.
It's an enigma, within a puzzle, wrapped around a riddle.
Tough nut to crack.

Actually,

LFL the way I see it is this....you aren't willing to give him the chance to be open with you. BUT, IMPO...you are withholding that part of you from him too.

Trust isn't the same as openess in this case as I see it. It is not an enigm, within a puzzle, wrapped around a riddle. Openess....is a choice. You may not be able to force yourself to trust him right now....but you can make a choice to be open with him about yourself. Not being open with him right now is a choice you are making....out of resentment.

I'm going to be flat out blunt right now. I see you hanging on to resentment, I don't see you trying to let it go. It appears to me as if this resentment is a comfort to you of sorts, it's almost as if that "resentment" is your excuse to stay angry and not give your H a real chance again. Now, I'm not saying you didn't have reason to be resentful, but now you have made the choice to try again and you are protecting that resentment and that's not good. That is what I see anyway....it's like it's becoming your armour.

Here's a question for you. Do you feel that if you do the things it might take to start letting go of this resentment and start trusting him again that he's just going to hurt you again? You have already admitted that you don't think there's anything he can do to regain your trust....saying things like that says to me "he can't win back my trust, he won't win back my trust, I won't trust him...I won't let him back in."

Just my observations, take em for what they're worth.

GEL

All valid points GEL. Won't deny any of them. I am not doing my part to totally open up to him. I am choosing not to and this is why: giving 100% of myself to him right now is not a smart thing to do. So he can receive all of me and I will get 40-50% of him? I'm not going to do that. Until I see some real openness on his end, he will not be receiving the true LFL. Another Mexican standoff? Maybe of sorts. But my self-respect is just about at the breaking point. I am willing to give as much as he gives. If he gives more, I'll gladly give more. I will not be driving this train anymore. Didn't work before and it won't work now. He needs to start taking the initiative. If he wants to sit back and pretend like things are ok again then he is making a mistake. And yes, I do tell him this quite clearly. He knows how I feel and yet within hours of one of our discussions he retreats to his old self. Ok, that's his choice. I have choices too. I choose not to put myself in a position where I not only get hurt again, but he never even earned that place in my head/heart again either. I would never forgive myself.

Hi, LFL.

So, are you going to tell him what you told us?

-NOPkins-

LFL,
You know what strikes me most about your posts? How utterly vague they are. Things like "When he gives more, I will give more."

Have you ever fleshed these ideas out? Do you know precisely what it is you want and need? Can you make a list that looks like: This is what the first step would look like, then building to this, ...
and so on?

I know you want very badly for your H to "prove" himself to you (I want that for you too, honey!) but he may not ever do this. At least not until things are better all around. My H never did. It wasn't until the R got better that he started taking risks and stretching himself. He NEVER did prove squat to me. Well, I shouldn't say that. He started taking small small steps and building on them.

I guess what I'm saying is that there was never any huge show from him..it was gradual and one step at a time.

Are you willing to go through this process with him? Because it's unlikely that your situation will progress differently simply because he put you through hell this past year.

One last question:

How well have you addressed your half of the problems?

My H never.........NEVER, okay...came out and said what his problems were. I had to read between the lines and I still do. He has a problem being direct. He is getting slightly better but there has been no drastic change in this dept. That doesn't matter to me. I still require myself to address his needs, whether he speaks them out loud or not. Despite the fact that he wronged me, I still required myself to meet his needs. It became a matter of integrity for ME, not whether he "deserved" it or not.

I suspect that if you keep yourself from meeting his needs, all the while constantly requiring some pretty drastic change from him, that he will tire of it and mentally check out. From there, it's just a matter of time to see who can leave the fastest. What a shame that would be!

I hope this isn't coming off as all being your fault...you know I don't mean that...only that you have some power here to effect the changes you want and unfortunately controlling H's response isn't one of them.

KEEP AT IT, lusty. You can do this!!