Hey preggo. I hope you exorcised something today and feel better. You and H have had a weird exchange. Hope you'll both stay away from each other bit now and process. Hoping the best for you.
Yes, there is only one way that I know of, caverna, and that's exactly what I did: Irritate him until he stays away. Yes, it's "his" house, "his" driveway, but he abandoned it, and he doesn't need to be there now. He needs to take his toys and go home.
And yes, bigAl, it was an interesting exchange. My version of walking onto my back steps and yelling, I guess.
I do believe this is very unhealthy, but H is obviously mentally unhealthy. This was the *exact* same way he talked to me when he left the first time.
I didn't ask him to be at my house today. I haven't asked him to be there at all. But what do you do when your H, who you just busted red-handed with his pants around his ankles, looks at *you* and says, "I gave you another chance, and you blew it?"
Oh yeah. That's right. We tuck our tail between our legs and walk off. Or we tell him how we *understand* how angry they must be that we blew our last chance.
"We must develop and maintain the capacity to forgive. He who is devoid of the power to forgive is devoid of the power to love. There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies." ~Martin Luther King, Jr.
And I shouldn't have ended the last post with "dignity." I should've said "ego." Much, much different, obviously.
Quote: We tuck our tail between our legs and walk off. Or we tell him how we *understand* how angry they must be that we blew our last chance.
Hey, P&DB...what a ride you are on here! Let me just give you my version of DBing. I have never claimed to be the perfect DBer, there were many times I felt I just couldn't keep my mouth shut!
To me, validating does *not* mean we tell the WAS everything they are doing is right. Validating means that we acknowlege our part in the marriage problems. That we can say, "yes, I see now what I was doing to help get us to this point. I can see how you got frustrated and upset and that I wasn't even aware of your feelings". It does NOT mean we say "yes, you were right to leave me". And validating (in my mind, others have different opinions) does NOT mean we say "Oh, yes go have your fun with OW. It's Ok". I never could do that. We all have to adjust the DBing to still remain true to our own personalities and our own values.
And to me, the most valuable thing was realizing that sometimes I had to think twice about saying what I wanted to say. It's not tucking our tail, it's not backing down - it's simply using the wisdom to know when to speak and when to be quiet. It doesn't mean you are being weak or giving in. In fact, it's a strength that I wish I had learned earlier. Many of the words that I felt I just *had* to say didn't do me a darn bit of good. Maybe about ten minutes of feeling relief, then back to the same old. And really, if it is important, there will be a time to say it all...I'm learning to wait for the opportunity, instead of getting in my digs just because I can. That doesn't do anyone any good.
I know at this point, you are not at all sure about where you want your M to go - he hurt you so badly the other day, and you don't know what you can and can't forgive right now. That's OK. You don't have to make all your choices right now. But you should be careful that you aren't burning all your bridges either - time does heal, forgiveness is possible, and you don't know how you will feel in the future. Just be careful you don't say or do something you can't take back, that will remain in everyone's memory and be a huge stumbling block. But don't beat yourself up either...every one of us here has said or done things that weren't in the DBing manual - put it behind you and move on!
VJ, You're a breath of fresh air. And I believe you're right. But after my H said, "F*ck that child," on top of all the insults he was unleashing at me, the last thing I thought was that forgiveness is possible. That's crossing the line. I told him I could've forgiven him for OW, and for being with her. And he continued to lash out, saying, "I don't need your forgiveness. I don't care what you think. I don't want to be with you anymore. I never did," blah, blah, blah.
And yes, that hurt. But for him to bring up his "really, really like" for her at the same time he's telling me that my unborn child can go to he!!, well, I just don't have much room in my heart for forgiveness after that. I have a little compassion left. But I'm not sure how much longer that's going to last either.
Maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow. I always seem to.
Thanks again, and stay in touch. You're helping me find my center again.
Okay, so after I've calmed down a little, I need some advice/suggestions. I think the same principles apply whether we're trying to move on with our lives, or repair our Ms, right? Well, I want to start moving on, but I have a couple extra issues that most folks don't have. I need some creative brains to really think about this and give me some ideas.
1. My H doesn't live here, but he comes and goes (in the driveway, not in the house) as he sees fit. This is technically his house. I would absolutely love to move, but I can't afford to. And I'm always passing by the house where my H lives now. It's just across the street. So, how do I avoid him? Should I politely ask him not to be in the driveway anymore? I've tried that, but he scoffs and says, "This is my house." Should I take it upon myself to have someone tow his broken-down car out of my driveway? (That is the only reason he comes up here: to fix his car.) I feel kinda stuck around here, and it sucks. I really, really wish he or I lived somewhere else, where I didn't see his car (and hers) at his house. I also wish I didn't have to know every time he's home, and every time he's not.
2. Short of not contacting him, is there anything else I can do to give myself time to grieve and move on in peace? Obviously, don't confront him. But I don't know how to act when he's around. Do I ignore him, since he's so angry that any discussion starts and ends with him yelling at me? Do I continue to call him every once in a while, just to see how he's doing? Do I say "hello" to him when he's in the driveway, then walk in the house and shut the door? What's the best course of action? I just don't know how to act around him.
3. What about my baby? I'm 4-and-a-half months from giving birth. H was excited last week, but now is saying "f*ck that child" because I caught him (H) in a compromising position. Should I continue to talk to him about the baby, or go back to how it was when I didn't refer to the baby at all? At first I didn't tell him about appointments because he just got angry, and said, "I won't be there." But last week, he came with me to the ultrasound.
Of course last week, he was telling me that he was going to the mountains to look for us a house. We were making plans to move together. We were also making plans for New Year's and Valentine's Day (our anniversary). Now, there's nothing. He says it's all my fault -- that I blew the chance *he* had given *me* for him to come back home -- because I walked in on him and his girlfriend having sex. He says I did it on purpose, to get evidence to take them both to the cleaners. The truth is, I was taking him a gift I had made him. That was it. But now everything's *my* fault; I wrecked the chance to have my H and the father of my baby back home. Arg. Sorry for venturing off the subject...
Right now, I'm just really, really confused. And I'm usually one who can think pretty clearly, but I can't now. Everyones' suggestions are to act as if H lost me over this. And I guess the question still is: How? How, when I live in his house? How, when I'm pregnant with his son?
I'm truly open to some straightforward suggestions.
Just go (semi) dark. Get on with you life, your stuff. Ignore H when he is in the driveway - or better yet, be going out the door all dressed up like you're going to a party when he is there. Don't call him, don't tow his car, don't take his temperature. Do plan for your future IF he doesn't snap out of it, but don't get sucked into discussing it with him. Send him a brief email letting him know when your appointments are, no requests or guilt, just the facts.
Give him some time to stew in his guilt. Give yourself the gift of some time spent focusing on something other than him. Work on some personal 180's that might make him curious about you. Ellie
Thanks, Ellie. Good suggestions. I've been weighed down in the "I'm-pregnant-how-much-would-he-really-wonder-about?" mode, but you're right. I won't be doing it for him anyway. He's prolly guilty enough to believe that there's a guy who exists that wants to take a preggo woman out. Maybe I should buy an outfit or two in the coming weeks to make me feel better. It's time.
Lucky for you, I am getting sick of grading papers after 7 or 8 hours of it.
1. My H doesn't live here, but he comes and goes (in the driveway, not in the house) as he sees fit. This is technically his house. I would absolutely love to move, but I can't afford to. And I'm always passing by the house where my H lives now. It's just across the street. So, how do I avoid him?
CLARIFYING POINTS THAT PROBABLY WON'T HELP YOU: A couple of things spring to mind. First, didn't you say H said his roomie was moving or am I confusing you with someone else?
At any rate, I don't think you can legally keep him away from the house. You say you cannot afford to move. I assume he is making the house payments. If he is planning to move to the mountains or whatever, is he still going to make them? If you get divorced, is he going to make them then (I know child support, settlement, etc. will get you some $$$ some time, but it'll be awhile).
POSSIBLE SUGGESTIONS:
Anyone you can live with for a little while until you can get to a point you can move? Family or friends (no single guys please).
What you really want is SPACE between you and H. Maybe you can get to that point without either of you moving. Bringing us to number 2.
2. Short of not contacting him, is there anything else I can do to give myself time to grieve and move on in peace? Obviously, don't confront him. But I don't know how to act when he's around. Do I ignore him, since he's so angry that any discussion starts and ends with him yelling at me? Do I continue to call him every once in a while, just to see how he's doing? Do I say "hello" to him when he's in the driveway, then walk in the house and shut the door? What's the best course of action? I just don't know how to act around him.
I would say be polite but do not initiate. You see someone on the street, anyone you know, you say hi to them, right? Same here. But you don't go looking for him. If he comes to your house to work on his car, stay in the house or leave or whatever. If you come face-to-face with him, say hello politely and move one. Don't be rude, but don't be overly warm and friendly either. But don't run out to the garage to see what he is doing.
You do not have to make yourself obey some weird rules in your own house, so if you need or want to approach someplace where he is, do so, but don't go looking for him.
3. What about my baby? I'm 4-and-a-half months from giving birth. H was excited last week, but now is saying "f*ck that child" because I caught him (H) in a compromising position. Should I continue to talk to him about the baby, or go back to how it was when I didn't refer to the baby at all? At first I didn't tell him about appointments because he just got angry, and said, "I won't be there." But last week, he came with me to the ultrasound.
Well if you don't initiate a lot of talk with him, then talk about the baby won't come up much but if you want to, keep him informed. Tell him about important progress points. "Doc says he is the right weight" or whatever. I'd say you can tell him about what happens at the Dr.'s visits, but I'm not sure I would invite him along unless he asks to. You can't ignore the fact that your pregnant and neither can he. Just give him relevant facts as you see necessary and let him ask for more if he wants it.
Unless you can find a way to move, I think you will need to find a way to keep contact to a minimum without being rude and without feeling trapped in your own house. It can be done, I think. I think I have seen you going to him a lot lately. Calling him, writing letters, meeting him outside, etc. Stop that. If you meet, fine, be polite. If you don't, then don't seek him out. I wish I could find a way for you to let this stuff just sit on the back burner for awhile and concentrate on your D's and your baby and ignore your H. I know that this is damn near impossible to do sometimes. I have been there. Heck, I stop by to visit there on a regular basis, but please try to find something to keep your mind off.
Here's wishing you well preggo. I know the world has screwed you more times than you can count. Hope it doesn't hurt you so bad this time that you never trust it again. There are good people out there and good things do happen. Do me a favor and believe in that just a little, take care of yourself for yourself and let us help as much as we can.
