NY survivor, I have read many of your posts and feel honored for your feedback...my question to you is, you have been here for quite a while...I have read all the books including DB and DR. Do you feel that this philosophy really works or is it a way for a person to empower themselves and feel better about what is happening to them...I really don't care because I need something to believe in, but just wondering if other than "success stories" you see it working here in the chat areas.
Hi Vince, About security -- yes. it was always big thing for me. But I have a different attitude here than most woman. I immigrated to the USA, went through a refuge camp on my own and have no family elsewhere -- actully I have, but they are so screwed up that it was one of the reasons I left my country. After making it from scratch in the free world, going through a string of mundane jobs before I ended up doing what I love to do, I do know what does it mean to start from scratch and to be without anything and anybody. And even though I went through this experience with flying colors, I would never want to do it again - never again - let alone at my age.
Most other women have some family, even if it is not perfect, they have motheres, fathers, sisters, brothers, coursins, aunts -- at least one or two clos people - so they don't have a concept of being truly on their own, alone, in case of illness for example.
Most people - incl. women - didn't start from scratch, so they no concept how hard it really is to lose everything.
If your W doesn't like the idea of dating, that explains how she got involved with this guy who doesn't sound like a good partner for eher or any other woman. Geez, adult man in the US without a job and without car - bad news.
Which is good news for you. He is no competition for you Vince on the long run. Really. Trust me. Sooner or later, once the initial endorphin shock settles, she will wake up and smell the roses and wonder what the heck is she doing with a guy like that? What can he offer her? - Ok, maybe something what was lacking in the relationship with you, bu not the whole enchilada, for sure. I am sure she will miss some things he simply is not able to provide her.
She will want someone else - and since dating scene is not alluring to her, she will want to come back to you most likely. If she will see that she can without losing her face, and if she will see you as a valuable partner.
I think that if she is attached emotionally to this guy, she is also blindsided, but it will not last -- maybe already she sees some signs that life with this guy is a pipe dream...
Hang on there - you CAN get her back, if you really want. And if you play your cards well. No doubt!
sunny greetings, PandaWanda
Sunny greetings from Florida,
Wanda
My unusual MLC scenario
Panda, Love the insight...I have to say that OM does have a job and a company car, they are co-workers...but he has no drive for more...my w is self proclaimed high maintenance and I don't think he will be able to keep her in the lifestyle that she has been accustomed and I think deep down, that is what she is struggling with. She of couse says that there is nothing going on and that she thinks it is easier for me to assume that so I can use that as an excuse...But my thing is if she say's that she doesn't question my commitment to the marriage and that it is not OM, then why not work at the marriage or at least give me a shot at proving myself. MC or something...but cutting me off cold turkey for two weeks...Ouch. She called me the Tue before Thanksgiving and was crying saying that she had just been to a psycic and he asked where is your husband and she said that he is not with me...he then said that you will be together with him long time, two kids..blah blah...but what I thought was intersting is that she said but I don't know if I still love him and he said "you will love again" He didn't say that you will love "him again", but she took it and ran with it as it was me...I took that as a favorable sign and prior to reading DB or DR I began to gush to her...wrong! I know but I didn't know at that time to stay cool...so I have probabily set myself back in time for my gush of affection because she knows she still has me on the hook...
Well..interesting couple of days...I went pscho last night and stalked the W and OM at his house..I just had to know for sure...They parked her car in the garage to keep me from doing drive by...but I'm pscho and put a gps on her car...OK...how many people are laughing at me...I know...I'm laughing as I'm writing this...Can you believe we are all so sick that we would consider taking someone back that we would have to do that? Maybe I'm just sick...Love is pretty funny though when you really look at it.
Well I was enraged and left a note..."I can't compete for your love anymore...blah, blah...I'm seeing my lawyer on Tue, call me if you want to discuss or get your own. SHe called today and said do you want to get together...I said did you get my note...she said yes and she doesn't appreciate it (yea like she would like getting busted)...so we met, with me being prepared to divide assets.
We had a very good talk...one of the best in about 3 months...nothing about our relationship for future...but kinda in the past...we talked about OM...she says that he is a lot less than you can imagine...of couse I had to ask if they were intimate and she answered yes (in so many words)...but you know I was actually fine with that because I knew they had been intimate, but if she said no I knew she would be lieing and it was nice to hear the truth for a change...and I think that by the way I responded and she then also appreciated being to tell the truth...kinda weird huh? guess it's that thing called love again... So she tells me she doesn't want a divorce but she wants her own space, meaning her own apt, not living out of a suitcase at GF house...I said I think that is a great idea...so she wants to come pack with MIL on Thur and move on Fri...wonder when she was going to tell me that...Heck, I'm even helping her move...also pretty weird huh?
Ok. HEre is the juice...I know you guys are going to blast me for this, but I ran it by my T today and she thought it could'nt hurt...I told W that I would go along with the the apt thing and not file for divorce if she would commit to see a "joint therapist for 5 consecutive weeks and at the end of the 5 weeks she would have to go to a marriage retreat in one of 5 different cities, she could choose what city. and she agreed!!!!!! She started tearing up...Don't know why...maybe she was thinking this guy is so wonderful he is still trying to save us...or she could have been thinking, this guy doesn't get it ...Now I did pose it more as that I wanted to do it for me so I could learn more about how I let this relationship get away from me and so I don't do it with my next relationship....I know smooth...but your saying still a psyco with a GPS...
I suggested that we consider this time a seperation and that we see other people and go from there...she said that she vasilates daily on if she wants to be married or not and when she vasilates it's never all one side or the other...so shes got no strong feeling one way or the other...she says that she feels numb...she's never really happy or sad...I'm thinking this poor girl is messed up...give her space...she needs it!
Well I've read enough the posts to know that this is the start of my roller coaster...I just got to play it cool.
Do you feel that this philosophy really works or is it a way for a person to empower themselves and feel better about what is happening to them
My take reading DBg was that it's more about interpersonal dynamics in a relationship and how to affect them. If you mean does DBing bring a spouse back from an affair, then I think there's a bigger can of worms having more circumstances and issues. Certainly DBing may still affect the WASs' relationship with the LBS for the positive. Certainly, the idea of looking at the LBSs' contribution to the failure of the relationship is important, without elimination of those behaviors/patterns and consistent demonstration that they have been purged, one can't expect a WAS to wish to come waltzing back into the same old relationship they wanted to leave. And what certainly doesn't work are many of the LBSs' natural tendencies of behavior when a WAS does leave or have an affair.
It is empowering because instead of feeling hopeless, DB gives the LBS a plan, and having a plan gives one a sense of control, which helps eradicate the sense of hopelessness. Very importantly, the book points out the need to go on with one's life and to focus on one's own interest, and that's very powerful because it accomplishes several things: By GAL, the significance of the WAS is diminished instead of being the object of obsession. It gets the LBS on track with their life. The new life the LBS builds also feeds the LBSs sense of self-worth and self-esteem which has typically been shattered by the event. The LBS typically shows dependance upon the WAS's valuation of the LBS. That new build of self-love makes the LBS more confidant and centered, which is an essential place to be whether you're in a relationship or not, and chances are, the LBS had lost themselves along the way during their relationship, and you can see that by the degree that LBSs despair when their WASs leave, so that type of help is essential.
You called it a "philosophy" and that reminded me to consider, not a philosopher, but an ancient poet, Ovid. He wrote on the subject of abandonment, writing:
"And if you're grieving deeply, look happy, lest she see it, and laugh, when tears come to you. Not that I order you to break off in mid-sorrow: my commands aren't as cruel as that Pretend to what is not, and that the passion's over, so you'll become, in truth, what you are studying to be".
In effect, Ovid's saying "act as if, don't show your feelings in front of the WAS, practice detachment, and fake it till you make it". This wisdom has been around for eons.
WAW moved out today...she was sooo cold...I tried to keep strong and weas ok...especially when she kept asking for more and more stuff...what started as her needing to get a few things for her new apt turned into her taking everything she owns and of couse left every picture of us. That stung. Went to a movie tonight by myself just to get out of the house while she finished...Hope she thought I was at a cooler place for happy hour...This weekend is going to be rough...I'm glad to have you all here.
Give me strength!!! My W who moved out yesterday is at OM house already tonight...she can't even have all of her stuff put away at her new apt. and she is at his house tonight? I'm telling you that I don't know if it's strength or stupidity staying around...I mean I have a lot to offer someone and she is not even emotional about leaving us and going straight over there, what kind of fool am I? Yes. I am all for working at the marriage and in my first marriage I even was the WAH so I know what my wife is going through, but I also know that this sucks. I gave her a letter yesterday as she moved out...not gushy...not loving, but saying that I have been in her shoes (She did not know about sits on first marriage) I was trying validate her feelings as what she is going through. We are suppose to go to joint therapy the first week of Jan...wanna bet we don't go? I think she only agreed as to save reputation as "we tried everything"
I have two options, send a text message while she is over there tonight and say, I've thought about things and I don't want to be a part of this anymore. or wait two weeks and see if she goes to the therapy, but still as the book "uncoupling" says in she is saving face by "trying" but "trying to fail"
Please advise as to what to do...why continue the humiliation...if we are meant to be, then we will be, but no more humiliation and hurt.
WAW moved out today...what started as her needing to get a few things for her new apt turned into her taking everything she owns and of couse left every picture of us. That stung.
Well, she has a right to everything she owns. You don't want her stuff anyway, do you? Make the place your own now. Put her pictures away, box 'em up. Hey, my ex, when she was packing, got to our wedding album, took a look at it, flipped through it, then put it down and left it here. That hurt too, but you know what? Maybe it hurts them to take it and be reminded of what they're doing. Anyway, who cares? Says a lot about them.
Give me strength!!! My W who moved out yesterday is at OM house already tonight...she can't even have all of her stuff put away at her new apt. and she is at his house tonight?
You're thinking about her too much. She's going to live her life whichever way she sees fit, and if you're going to have twists inside you every time she does or that, you're living in reaction to her, not for yourself.
I mean I have a lot to offer someone and she is not even emotional about leaving us and going straight over there, what kind of fool am I?
You're no fool. How are you a fool based on what she does? I'd say it's more foolish to consider one's valuation of one's self based on what someone else does or think, especially someone like a WAS who is way ahead of you on the road of being emotionally divorced and detached from the relationship. You have some catching up to do, as you were not prepared. You'll get there.
I gave her a letter yesterday as she moved out...not gushy...not loving, but saying that I have been in her shoes (She did not know about sits on first marriage) I was trying validate her feelings as what she is going through.
That may resonate inside her and stick in the back of her mind, but it's not going to change anything right now. You've given her letters before, letter giving doesn't do much. It's a way for you to vent because you want her to know how you're feeling, so it feels right for you to do it, but to her, she wants to get away from all this, so to her, it's just more of the same. Like you, I've been a walk-away. I've been a walk-away a few times. I remember how I felt and thought back then too. Any attempts to bring me back were all dismissed by me, instead I was headstrong in my determination to walk. There were some left behinds who promised me anything if I'd come back, but that behavior literally both disgusted me and angered me, typical of a WA.
My point is, that if you wish to have any affect at all as a LBS, you have to put on the WAS's mind set best you can, and fight the battle there.
But my being a left behind was certainly devastating, unlike being a WA, and we react very emotionally and in accord with our own interest. That's the trick, to overcome that. And really, it's not about winning the WA back, but about climbing out of this mess and grabbing onto a better life.
We are suppose to go to joint therapy the first week of Jan...wanna bet we don't go? I think she only agreed as to save reputation as "we tried everything"
Or to just get rid of the issue, pretending to agree, figuring she'd either not go, or if she does go, she'll tell you it's not working for her (because if someone doesn't want to work on it, all the counseling in the world isn't effective).
I have two options, send a text message while she is over there tonight and say, I've thought about things and I don't want to be a part of this anymore. or wait two weeks and see if she goes to the therapy, but still as the book "uncoupling" says in she is saving face by "trying" but "trying to fail"
Sounds like the book puts what I've just written in that way...
You have more than two options. You can decide to do nothing, right now. You don't always have to act on something or do something. The text message, I mean, if you don't want to be a "part of it", then just don't bother with her. Look, there was a point in my sitch where the more I realized that what it would take for a successful reconcilation for me and my ex required oh so much more than her simply saying "I think I made a mistake. Can we try again?", and while I keep my options open, I realized also that unless she gets it and grows up, that I'm asking for trouble having her back. If it's trouble to have her back, then why the hell would I want her back? Then I catch myself thinking, then why am I even thinking about her anymore? Should I send her that message? No, why bother? Am I making any sense, or am I just rambling?
why continue the humiliation...if we are meant to be, then we will be, but no more humiliation and hurt.
You've suffered a trauma, one that deflates esteem and ego. Very painful. But the event is over, my friend. Any further humiliation that you feel is coming from you, be aware of that. Everything that she's done says a lot more about her than it ever could say of you. She's the one that should feel humiliated, not you. She won't because she's distracted right now. But she'll have her moments. Have a great night, try to, anyway. Hang in there, it WILL get better! Hope this gave you some strength!
Any further humiliation that you feel is coming from you, be aware of that. Everything that she's done says a lot more about her than it ever could say of you. She's the one that should feel humiliated, not you. She won't because she's distracted right now
That is the way I feel...but I don't want to give her the power anymore to make me humiliated...I know you are saying it's my choice, but I, like you, am thinking there is too much that she would have to do to reconcile...she messed up but more over after she know's I know she is still doing it and I have all the respect for the board here but I don't think that I want to work on it and take months out of my life on her to continue the A...I'm no spring chicken, 37...but I have no kids relativly successful, and not a bad looking guy and feel like there is someone that might be interested in me that does not have commitment issues. The way I feel is if she wants him that bad, have him and the life that goes along with it...not the way I would want to live, but maybe they are in love.
I am so embarassed...I read so many posts on here and people are suffering many months and some years and here I am giving up after a month...but I just can't take the pain anymore...I know that sounds like I'm being weak and I know I am but I just feel that if I have the power to stop or at least ease the pain, I feel like I have to do it...I thought that I could "act" like we were divorced and allow the A to continue but I don't have it in me. Maybe this is a natural feeling that I'm feeling and all of you have gone through this same feeling but, I don't see me changing my mind.
Would love to have a success story that LRT worked by filing for D, but honestly I don't care. The hurt that would have to be overcome, she should have to seriously repent to even consider and that is just not her.
I know that by doing this, some of you are thinking be carful what you wish for, but what is the best that I can wish for...total reconciliation...a life of wondering if she is late coming home from work, is she cheating again? What kind of life is that? That is the best I can wish for? i think I'm selling myself short.
...Now I did pose it more as that I wanted to do it for me so I could learn more about how I let this relationship get away from me and so I don't do it with my next relationship....I know smooth...but your saying still a psyco with a GPS...